Smurf - no longer can order

[vette]

I know these arent cheap. If i could have only one rolex this would be it. I ll buy one for sure. I wanted to see the yacht master 2 and TTblusey. Keep thinking why not just go for the white gold first and be done. From the frist time i saw this at a ad i knew i had to have it

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

You act like watches are free.

It's one thing to treat watches like stocks, anyone that's been around here long enough knows how silly that is.

It's another thing to observe the market and utilize that information. Not just to select a watch that you feel is a good value, but also to enhance the enjoyment of this hobby as the watch market and collecting in general is fascinating to many of us.

Then there's your take that watches, Rolex specifically, should be treated like a $20 hammer from the hardware store. There's a balance to everything, and while I think the hammer comparison is ridiculous, I appreciate those that truly use their watches for what they are, I just think you don't have a realistic understanding of what they are in the today's world.

This isn't internet fantasy land, as you like to put it, this is simply the internet. This is the world we live in TODAY. This is social media. You're one of the most senior mods on probably the best watch forum on the internet, and you discredit it and yourself daily by acting like the "internet" serves no useful purpose in this hobby, rather hurts it and is the primary reason for the extinction of the "true enthusiasts". People like you that thinks watches are free and should be used to hammer in nails.

At a certain point it comes off snobby to constantly tell people they are idiots making calculated choices with their money, that they're living in "internet fantasy land". Sometimes it’s like you’re saying if you have to worry about money you're not allowed in this club.

There are plenty of posts and threads that annoy me just as much as they do you, but there's really nothing more annoying than your constant negativity and belittling those that don't share your exact perspectives on what this hobby should be.

Hot damn, the silence is golden

[Drdrew]

This is an amazing thread. So much love for a reference, I though I was the only way. I see this new with stickers in the classifieds around the 30k mark. I’ve got my eye on a 41mm royal oak blue dial 15500 too. Would any smurf owners pick up the Ap at retail instead of the sub of you had the choice as a one and only?

[locutus49]

My Smurf will last forever, go ten years without servicing, and frankly looks fine with all the scratches I put on it. I owned a RO for like a week, did not bond with it, and if you breathed on it the bezel got scratched. For me the decision was based on reliability and durability.

Originally Posted by Drdrew

This is an amazing thread. So much love for a reference, I though I was the only way. I see this new with stickers in the classifieds around the 30k mark. I’ve got my eye on a 41mm royal oak blue dial 15500 too. Would any smurf owners pick up the Ap at retail instead of the sub of you had the choice as a one and only?

[s7horton]

I picked mine up at the end of June. Took about 5 weeks to arrive. It’s the only one my AD has ever received.

I’m kinda sorta secretly hoping it is discontinued. Only time will tell. Either way, I’m glad I was able to land one.

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by Pongster

Ah ok. So a flat blue dialled YG sub is not a “bluesy”.

Maybe, the next 116619LB would have a blue sunburst dial. Since the flat blue is already taken care of by pelagos.

Originally Posted by In-Cog-Neeto

Seconded


Sunburst would ruin it

The flat blue looks awesome

Which means Basel 2020, sunburst Smurf here wengo

Well I don't like the flat blue of the WG Sub Smurf , would prefer it on sunburst instead. A sunbusrt blue WG Sub would look like this (from Internet):

[steve099]

Look the 116619 is a terrible option to purchase, do not waste your hard earned on something priced at gold levels that looks SS.

I strongly recommend any other option over the 116619 and feel Rolex needs to do the right thing come next Basel and discontinue it once and for all.

Regards

One smug 116619LB owner.

[GVAZQUEZ]

Originally Posted by novae500

Smurf in SS would be such a hit!!!

Agree!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[soxfan39]

man do I love my smurf! Best watch I've ever owned....

Will never stop loving staring at it.

[akilis]

Originally Posted by 10klakes

Was told by my AD the smurf can no longer be ordered.

If any of you are on the fence and your AD has one, don’t sleep.

Just wanted to share with fellow TRF’ers.

I saw many of them sitting at AD

[Number3]

Originally Posted by Loevhagen

Really hope it is continued, so we can get a normal sized one with a SB dial.

And if it has a non-PCL bracelet it would be a bonus.

What are you thinking as a ‘normal size’? 42mm with slimmed down lugs like the SD43? Now that would be something....

[Number3]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

You act like watches are free.

It's one thing to treat watches like stocks, anyone that's been around here long enough knows how silly that is.

It's another thing to observe the market and utilize that information. Not just to select a watch that you feel is a good value, but also to enhance the enjoyment of this hobby as the watch market and collecting in general is fascinating to many of us.

Then there's your take that watches, Rolex specifically, should be treated like a $20 hammer from the hardware store. There's a balance to everything, and while I think the hammer comparison is ridiculous, I appreciate those that truly use their watches for what they are, I just think you don't have a realistic understanding of what they are in the today's world.

This isn't internet fantasy land, as you like to put it, this is simply the internet. This is the world we live in TODAY. This is social media. You're one of the most senior mods on probably the best watch forum on the internet, and you discredit it, and yourself daily by acting like the "internet" serves no useful purpose in this hobby, rather hurts it and is the primary reason for the extinction of the "true enthusiasts". People like you that thinks watches are free and should be used to hammer in nails.

At a certain point it comes off snobby to constantly tell people they are idiots making calculated choices with their money, that they're living in "internet fantasy land". Sometimes it’s like you’re saying if you have to worry about money you're not allowed in this club.

There are plenty of posts and threads that annoy me just as much as they do you, but there's really nothing more annoying than your constant negativity and belittling those that don't share your exact perspectives on what this hobby should be.

Corporate press release:

“We regret to announce that Peter’s views no longer align with the values of the Forum and, as such, moving forward his activity will be confined to the vintage section.” #metoo

[Art 1]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

You act like watches are free.

It's one thing to treat watches like stocks, anyone that's been around here long enough knows how silly that is.

It's another thing to observe the market and utilize that information. Not just to select a watch that you feel is a good value, but also to enhance the enjoyment of this hobby as the watch market and collecting in general is fascinating to many of us.

Then there's your take that watches, Rolex specifically, should be treated like a $20 hammer from the hardware store. There's a balance to everything, and while I think the hammer comparison is ridiculous, I appreciate those that truly use their watches for what they are, I just think you don't have a realistic understanding of what they are in the today's world.

This isn't internet fantasy land, as you like to put it, this is simply the internet. This is the world we live in TODAY. This is social media. You're one of the most senior mods on probably the best watch forum on the internet, and you discredit it, and yourself daily by acting like the "internet" serves no useful purpose in this hobby, rather hurts it and is the primary reason for the extinction of the "true enthusiasts". People like you that thinks watches are free and should be used to hammer in nails.

At a certain point it comes off snobby to constantly tell people they are idiots making calculated choices with their money, that they're living in "internet fantasy land". Sometimes it’s like you’re saying if you have to worry about money you're not allowed in this club.

There are plenty of posts and threads that annoy me just as much as they do you, but there's really nothing more annoying than your constant negativity and belittling those that don't share your exact perspectives on what this hobby should be.

I missed your post originally. Thank you for posting it. The negativity from that poster has becoming tiring. And unbecoming from a moderator.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by padi56

Fairy story app like many posts on forum lately,but today Rolex are no longer watches just now little more than ££££$$$$$.

There is some truth to this. In my opinion, Tudor offers a refreshing change on the $ mania.

Wearing my BB Blue on bracelet as I type. Feels like many subs I have owned, but modernized a tad. But at its heart, a solid hand made ss tool watch that tells the time and works.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by inadeje

Frankly Peter, I find it tough to swallow that a mod of this epic forum would have those contrarian views. It seems contradictory to the spirit of the impartiality required of forum mods. Care to illuminate your views with a rebuttal or counterpoint?

With humility, let me take a stab.

First, I like to step back and reflect that in a world where so many other issues seem to polarize a lot of people to the point of hatred and not being able to discuss civilly, this forum remains one of the last refuges where we can talk about a passion - watch collecting - without dragging in all the other issues. Let's hope it stays that way. Having said that...

I sympathize with both both sides of this controversy. And while I cannot see into other people's minds, here is my perspective.

When I started pocket watch, wrist watch and clock collecting in the early 90's it was a different world.

Anyone with a modicum of disposable income could participate. And except for a few temporary bubbles (e.g. bubble backs), watches of all brands and stripes were easy to come by.

So, for me the focus was always on the movement and the history of the watch. With little investment, value retention was really a non-issue. And it was fun. I mean really fun. Fascinated by the hum of an Accutron? Pick up a 14k one at your local flea market. Take it to your local watch maker, learn about it and enjoy it. Get tired of it. Go to a watch meet and trade it.

Want to try a sub? Go into most pawn shops and get one with box and papers for a lot less than the price of a used Tudor with no box and papers today. Wear it. Enjoy it. And trade it if you get tired of. But no giant investment. So no fixation with value retention. The numbers were just not that big.

When I first joined this forum, it was still mainly a place you went to learn about your watch. And to vet one before purchasing.

But social media has exploded this hobby. And giant hedge fund backed watch resellers (not the trusted sellers on this website), coupled with exploding demand and limited supply have also changed this hobby.

Two things happened.

First, an entry level watch takes a lot of money to buy. And people get concerned with value retention. I spend 10k on a watch. What if I don't like it. Can I get my money back so I can try something different without mortgaging the house? I get that and I appreciate it.

Second, there are also many who look at watches as mere investments to flip like stocks on the Dow Jones. This is a step beyond merely being concerned about not taking a bath on a watch when you want to trade it for another watch. But even so, there is nothing "bad" or wrong with this, and if this is your cup of tea, great. But it really has nothing to do with the history of time pieces or enjoying them.

Unfortunately, for those of us who remember the old days. And still think of the movement and history and wearability of a watch first, it is all too easy to lump these two views of value - retention vs. investment - into one pot. But they are not really the same.

Second, it is also easy to get frustrated at the sheer number of posts about money and value and investments. Again, they are not all the same. But they do share one common characteristic - they do not focus on the watch itself, it's workmanship or it's history. So it is easy to get frustrated that the money issues seem to crowd out the other issues we used to focus on.

But all life is change. And unless this bubble bursts, the money concerns are here to say for the foreseeable future. So, those like me who don't want to hear it, might want to try to understand that it is the new economic reality. And people want to talk about it on this forum.

But we might also want to try to understand how the old timers feel. They have a lot of information and experience to share. And it would be a poorer forum and hobby without them.

Just my opinion.

[nick800]

Originally Posted by Art 1

I missed your post originally. Thank you for posting it. The negativity from that poster has becoming tiring. And unbecoming from a moderator.

Agree

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

With humility, let me take a stab.



First, I like to step back and reflect that in a world where so many other issues seem to polarize a lot of people to the point of hatred and not being able to discuss civilly, this forum remains one of the last refuges where we can talk about a passion - watch collecting - without dragging in all the other issues. Let's hope it stays that way. Having said that...



I sympathize with both both sides of this controversy. And while I cannot see into other people's minds, here is my perspective.



When I started pocket watch, wrist watch and clock collecting in the early 90's it was a different world.



Anyone with a modicum of disposable income could participate. And except for a few temporary bubbles (e.g. bubble backs), watches of all brands and stripes were easy to come by.



So, for me the focus was always on the movement and the history of the watch. With little investment, value retention was really a non-issue. And it was fun. I mean really fun. Fascinated by the hum of an Accutron? Pick up a 14k one at your local flea market. Take it to your local watch maker, learn about it and enjoy it. Get tired of it. Go to a watch meet and trade it.



Want to try a sub? Go into most pawn shops and get one with box and papers for a lot less than the price of a used Tudor with no box and papers today. Wear it. Enjoy it. And trade it if you get tired of. But no giant investment. So no fixation with value retention. The numbers were just not that big.



When I first joined this forum, it was still mainly a place you went to learn about your watch. And to vet one before purchasing.



But social media has exploded this hobby. And giant hedge fund backed watch resellers (not the trusted sellers on this website), coupled with exploding demand and limited supply have also changed this hobby.



Two things happened.



First, an entry level watch takes a lot of money to buy. And people get concerned with value retention. I spend 10k on a watch. What if I don't like it. Can I get my money back so I can try something different without mortgaging the house? I get that and I appreciate it.



Second, there are also many who look at watches as mere investments to flip like stocks on the Dow Jones. This is a step beyond merely being concerned about not taking a bath on a watch when you want to trade it for another watch. But even so, there is nothing "bad" or wrong with this, and if this is your cup of tea, great. But it really has nothing to do with the history of time pieces or enjoying them.



Unfortunately, for those of us who remember the old days. And still think of the movement and history and wearability of a watch first, it is all too easy to lump these two views of value - retention vs. investment - into one pot. But they are not really the same.



Second, it is also easy to get frustrated at the sheer number of posts about money and value and investments. Again, they are not all the same. But they do share one common characteristic - they do not focus on the watch itself, it's workmanship or it's history. So it is easy to get frustrated that the money issues seem to crowd out the other issues we used to focus on.



But all life is change. And unless this bubble bursts, the money concerns are here to say for the foreseeable future. So, those like me who don't want to hear it, might want to try to understand that it is the new economic reality. And people want to talk about it on this forum.



But we might also want to try to understand how the old timers feel. They have a lot of information and experience to share. And it would be a poorer forum and hobby without them.



Just my opinion.

Well said!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Mgf8462]

I'm crossing my fingers for a green dial, black bezeled Sub coming out of Basel. Who knows, but wishful thinking.

[Baco Noir]

I just ordered one 2 weeks ago so I think the OP needs a new AD.

[10klakes]

Originally Posted by Baco Noir

I just ordered one 2 weeks ago so I think the OP needs a new AD.

I have a very respectable AD, they’ve sourced me many great pieces, some very difficult to obtain. Was sharing with the forum with good intention(s).

Has your smurf arrived?

[Baco Noir]

Originally Posted by 10klakes

I have a very respectable AD, they’ve sourced me many great pieces, some very difficult to obtain. Was sharing with the forum with good intention(s).

Has your smurf arrived?

Nope. Just ordered 2 weeks ago. He’s sold his allotment for the year so he’s not sure when he’ll get it in. I’ve had a relationship with him for nearly a decade and I still get great pricing from him even in this chaotic market, so I’ll wait patiently for the piece.

[JacksonStone]

AD reports of discontinuation notifications via their reps are the only "my AD said" rumors I pay attention to. That's because they're not speculating; they're reporting an actual development. Usually when enough of these reports start coming from enough sources, it's a pretty good bet they're correct. Reports of the discos of the SD4K, the black-dial WG BLRO and the blue-dial 3186 WG BLRO bear this out.

There isn't critical mass yet for me to believe the Smurf is off the books. Usually, these reports start snowballing pretty quickly, and we're creeping up on two months past the start of this thread without significant corroboration. Still, it will be interesting to see how this develops. If the Smurf is off, that strengthens my suspicion 2020 might be the year the Sub range will begin to get the 3235.

[Freespeach]

Originally Posted by Mgf8462

I'm crossing my fingers for a green dial, black bezeled Sub coming out of Basel. Who knows, but wishful thinking.

Buy a Hulk and a regular sub date and switch the bezels.
Now you have two unique watches without waiting on Rolex

[10klakes]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

AD reports of discontinuation notifications via their reps are the only "my AD said" rumors I pay attention to. That's because they're not speculating; they're reporting an actual development. Usually when enough of these reports start coming from enough sources, it's a pretty good bet they're correct. Reports of the discos of the SD4K, the black-dial WG BLRO and the blue-dial 3186 WG BLRO bear this out.

There isn't critical mass yet for me to believe the Smurf is off the books. Usually, these reports start snowballing pretty quickly, and we're creeping up on two months past the start of this thread without significant corroboration. Still, it will be interesting to see how this develops. If the Smurf is off, that strengthens my suspicion 2020 might be the year the Sub range will begin to get the 3235.

I agree- I haven’t seen a snowball of others reporting the same. But, it is what I was told, we will see soon with Basel on the horizon.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by 10klakes

I agree- I haven’t seen a snowball of others reporting the same.

To be clear, I appreciate the information. I know you're just reporting what you were told, and I'm not shooting the messenger.

[Likestheshiny]

Well I don't like the flat blue of the WG Sub Smurf , would prefer it on sunburst instead.

This.

Also, in steel.

But in steel it would end up costing as much as gold, so it might as well just be gold.

[Freespeach]

Originally Posted by Mgf8462

I'm crossing my fingers for a green dial, black bezeled Sub coming out of Basel. Who knows, but wishful thinking.

Like this?

[10klakes]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

To be clear, I appreciate the information. I know you're just reporting what you were told, and I'm not shooting the messenger.

You bet, it’s all good. I’ve also been watching and wondering if anyone else has heard the same.

Making a trip to the AD Saturday, will follow up and see if anything has changed.

[jets]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

AD reports of discontinuation notifications via their reps are the only "my AD said" rumors I pay attention to. That's because they're not speculating; they're reporting an actual development. Usually when enough of these reports start coming from enough sources, it's a pretty good bet they're correct. Reports of the discos of the SD4K, the black-dial WG BLRO and the blue-dial 3186 WG BLRO bear this out.

There isn't critical mass yet for me to believe the Smurf is off the books. Usually, these reports start snowballing pretty quickly, and we're creeping up on two months past the start of this thread without significant corroboration. Still, it will be interesting to see how this develops. If the Smurf is off, that strengthens my suspicion 2020 might be the year the Sub range will begin to get the 3235.

This.

[locutus49]

This is a cogent, even-handed post. Well done.

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

With humility, let me take a stab.

First, I like to step back and reflect that in a world where so many other issues seem to polarize a lot of people to the point of hatred and not being able to discuss civilly, this forum remains one of the last refuges where we can talk about a passion - watch collecting - without dragging in all the other issues. Let's hope it stays that way. Having said that...

I sympathize with both both sides of this controversy. And while I cannot see into other people's minds, here is my perspective.

When I started pocket watch, wrist watch and clock collecting in the early 90's it was a different world.

Anyone with a modicum of disposable income could participate. And except for a few temporary bubbles (e.g. bubble backs), watches of all brands and stripes were easy to come by.

So, for me the focus was always on the movement and the history of the watch. With little investment, value retention was really a non-issue. And it was fun. I mean really fun. Fascinated by the hum of an Accutron? Pick up a 14k one at your local flea market. Take it to your local watch maker, learn about it and enjoy it. Get tired of it. Go to a watch meet and trade it.

Want to try a sub? Go into most pawn shops and get one with box and papers for a lot less than the price of a used Tudor with no box and papers today. Wear it. Enjoy it. And trade it if you get tired of. But no giant investment. So no fixation with value retention. The numbers were just not that big.

When I first joined this forum, it was still mainly a place you went to learn about your watch. And to vet one before purchasing.

But social media has exploded this hobby. And giant hedge fund backed watch resellers (not the trusted sellers on this website), coupled with exploding demand and limited supply have also changed this hobby.

Two things happened.

First, an entry level watch takes a lot of money to buy. And people get concerned with value retention. I spend 10k on a watch. What if I don't like it. Can I get my money back so I can try something different without mortgaging the house? I get that and I appreciate it.

Second, there are also many who look at watches as mere investments to flip like stocks on the Dow Jones. This is a step beyond merely being concerned about not taking a bath on a watch when you want to trade it for another watch. But even so, there is nothing "bad" or wrong with this, and if this is your cup of tea, great. But it really has nothing to do with the history of time pieces or enjoying them.

Unfortunately, for those of us who remember the old days. And still think of the movement and history and wearability of a watch first, it is all too easy to lump these two views of value - retention vs. investment - into one pot. But they are not really the same.

Second, it is also easy to get frustrated at the sheer number of posts about money and value and investments. Again, they are not all the same. But they do share one common characteristic - they do not focus on the watch itself, it's workmanship or it's history. So it is easy to get frustrated that the money issues seem to crowd out the other issues we used to focus on.

But all life is change. And unless this bubble bursts, the money concerns are here to say for the foreseeable future. So, those like me who don't want to hear it, might want to try to understand that it is the new economic reality. And people want to talk about it on this forum.

But we might also want to try to understand how the old timers feel. They have a lot of information and experience to share. And it would be a poorer forum and hobby without them.

Just my opinion.