New to forum...Datejust accuracy problem

[mickiratt]

Hello everyone,

I have been a Rolex enthusiast for about a year now. I am also a member of a couple other watch forums and hope to be an active member of this one as well. I look forward to sharing and learning alot from everyone here!

I just purchased a new Datejust 116233 on Sunday (pictures to come soon). I checked it's accuracy from Sunday afternoon until yesterday morning and it was +18 seconds. That is a little over +9 seconds/day. Over the last 24 hrs, the watch is +10 seconds. When I purchased my 14060M sub, which is not a chronometer, it was less than +1 sec/day right out of the box.

This is a late "D" SN so the watch couldn't have been sitting around for too long. I know that there is no "break-in" period for modern day Rolex watches. Have any of you had a Rolex with the 3135 movt. that ran fast out of the box? Did it settle in somewhat at some point? I am just really surprised that it is out of COSC specs right out of the box.

Regards,
Steve

[padi56]

First welcome to TRF Steve the answer yes a few, now first give your watch a full manual wind around 40 turns of the crown.Then wear the watch for about 8 hours plus daily, and do a check over a week,check timing from same source.If timing is still outside the COSC -4 TO+7 Secs daily,take it to be regulated at AD quite a simple job.And could be done while you wait if AD has watchmaker in house.Some movement take a few months to bed in,and normally settle down,so my advice to you,inform your AD about your problem,make a note of who you reported it to.But give your watch just a little more time before regulation and the back has to come of

[mike]

Welcome!! Nice to have another Buckeye around, I'm just outside of Columbus.

I know the feeling. I bought a new GMT II once upon a time that was +12 right out of the box.
Seems like ADs around here are loathe to do anything about a watch that's still on warranty. Mine went back to RSC NY. Took three weeks but it's now +1 sec a day.
I'd send it in, they'll make it right.
Good luck.

[mickiratt]

Thank you gentlemen. I always keep the watch fully wound and wear it about 11-12 hrs per day. The good news is that it seems to be exactly 10 seconds fast per day, regardless of positioning. That means it is precise. So to make it accurate, it may need regulated. Before I have the case opened on my new baby I will give it a week or two to settle but I don't expect much. My Sub never settled as it stayed +1 sec from out of the box.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by mickiratt

Thank you gentlemen. I always keep the watch fully wound and wear it about 11-12 hrs per day. The good news is that it seems to be exactly 10 seconds fast per day, regardless of positioning. That means it is precise. So to make it accurate, it may need regulated. Before I have the case opened on my new baby I will give it a week or two to settle but I don't expect much. My Sub never settled as it stayed +1 sec from out of the box.

Yes agree as long as your watch is consistent its accurate,just a simple case of regulation.The COSC test refers to the movement only because uncased movements are all that the testers get. These blank movements without dial, hands and winding crown are received and given standard hands and dials. Depending on whether manual or automatic winding, they received standard state-of-wind and are tested. The test procedure uses photography time lapse at set times daily, synchronised by a master clock. Any deviation of the seconds hand from master clock, seen on the photo, is the daily variation recorded.The COSC test is quite expensive around £110 to £140 per movement

The movement is then returned to manufacturer who can take as long as they want to finally encase the movement in your "chronometer watch".Some reasons why the COSC procedure IMO can be meaningless in real terms,and if not tested again before sent to AD and I am sure not all are.Some will be outside the COSC spec on arrival to customer it a fact of life.:

As I already indicated, only the movements are submitted for testing. Not even hands and dials are present, these are added at the institute. It is common knowledge, however, that additional shipping and handling, and above all, encasing the movements, can and will drastically affect its accuracy from original test.

[Rockrolex]

Welcome to TRF, Steve. Glad you found our merry madhouse.

As you can tell, Padi is our resident expert on movements. As he said, give it a little time, and if it is still off after a couple of weeks, take it back to the AD for a simple adjustment.

Good luck. Stick around and keep posting.

[mickiratt]

Thanks again everyone! And yes, it's nice to see a fellow Buckeye, Mike. I am an Ohio State University alumni. Go Bucks!

[JJ Irani]

Hi Steve,

A big and hearty welcome to TRF. Congrats on a very nice watch. As the experts have already advised, a simple regulation will do the trick and bring that very dependable 3135 movement back to specs.

We look forward to some pics though!!

Cheers - JJ

[C.J.]

Welcome to TRF and good luck with the timing

[mickiratt]

Thanks for the warm welcome JJ. I will post pics asap, possibly tonight when I get home from work. It's the two-tone Datejust with jubilee bracelet and fluted bezel with the blue face baton marker dial. Very handsome! I was never a big jubilee fan but I fell in love with this combination at the AD. No regrets! The new bracelet is fabulous.

I cannot find anywhere on the watch or bracelet itself where it would be marked "18k" or "750". I imagine it would be on the case or caseback. Would anyone know?

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by mickiratt

Thanks for the warm welcome JJ. I will post pics asap, possibly tonight when I get home from work. It's the two-tone Datejust with jubilee bracelet and fluted bezel with the blue face baton marker dial. Very handsome! I was never a big jubilee fan but I fell in love with this combination at the AD. No regrets! The new bracelet is fabulous.

I cannot find anywhere on the watch or bracelet itself where it would be marked "18k" or "750". I imagine it would be on the case or caseback. Would anyone know?

Hi Steve,

The 116233 is obviously a TT DJ. I'm pretty certain that these 18K and 750 marks are reserved only for the FULL GOLD models.

However, the very fact that the last number on your model no. is 3, that alone indicates that the watch is steel/gold.

This model no. can be seen etched on the case at '12', but you would have to take off the bracelet for that.

JJ

[padi56]

JJ is 100% correct on this, only solid gold items over a certain weight must be hallmarked.And the bezel might have a hallmark,but because its under a certain weight, it don't necessarily have to be hallmarked as part of a watch.

[mickiratt]

I just got off the phone with a Rolex trained watchmaker at a local AD. He said that he would not be able to regulate my watch as it may void my warranty. He mentioned that had I purchased the watch there, he would be less hesitant because if something went wrong, they would take care of it. This makes no sense to me. I purchased the watch from a competitor who does not have an in house watchmaker and would have to send it to the Dallas RSC. I'm hesitant to part with it for 3-5 weeks over a simple regulation but infortunately that would be my only option.

[haakon59]

Originally Posted by mickiratt

I just got off the phone with a Rolex trained watchmaker at a local AD. He said that he would not be able to regulate my watch as it may void my warranty. He mentioned that had I purchased the watch there, he would be less hesitant because if something went wrong, they would take care of it. This makes no sense to me. I purchased the watch from a competitor who does not have an in house watchmaker and would have to send it to the Dallas RSC. I'm hesitant to part with it for 3-5 weeks over a simple regulation but infortunately that would be my only option.

That's an interesting answer that the watchmaker gave you. I have a feeling he used the "void the warranty" answer just because you didn't buy from them. You could offer a "service fee" of some kind and that might make them change their minds. But you just might be stuck sending it to Dallas RSC. My advice would be to wear the watch for a month and then see how it is behaving. You might use the Navy's time tracker on the web to check accuracy and just keep a log. I have had watches change from perfect out of the box to 10 or 20 seconds off per day within 6 months and vice versa, while some of mine have been perfect at the start and are still perfect. (The ones I am mentioning right now are nonRolex, although all have automatic movements). Most Rolexes run very accurately right out of the box and I know a few guys who have had their Submariner/Sea Dweller/Datejust for 10 years or so and they still run within COSC specs. So your situation is one you don't hear about much. I would watch it, record it's timekeeping accuracy for a month, then ask for advice from your AD. Other than that, I hope you enjoy your new watch.

[mickiratt]

Thanks haakon59. I did offer to pay a fee and he said they normally provide this service for free (although they would need the watch for 2 days!) but refused mine because it would possibly void my warranty. I don't know how it would void the warranty. It's not like they are replacing parts or even cleaning. It is just an adjustment. From what I understand, they do not even have to remove the movement. It is .

[haakon59]

Originally Posted by mickiratt

Thanks haakon59. I did offer to pay a fee and he said they normally provide this service for free (although they would need the watch for 2 days!) but refused mine because it would possibly void my warranty. I don't know how it would void the warranty. It's not like they are replacing parts or even cleaning. It is just an adjustment. From what I understand, they do not even have to remove the movement. It is .

Yes, it is puzzling why they are being so unhelpful. I suppose they might not believe you bought it from a real dealer and want to avoid getting involved. Rolex is perhaps the most copied brand and there might be some sort of flood of illegimate products in your area. Who knows?

You are right that the adjustment is pretty easy--they just have to move the "lever" a little bit. I can't really explain their behavior so that makes me think the best course is to wear the watch all month long and track how it does. If it is still off 10 seconds you might just want to send it in to Dallas. My bet is that once they get it they will return it to you close to perfect. Rolex is normally quite good about accuracy, the movement is pretty tested and reliable, but they can easily adjust it for you.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by haakon59

You are right that the adjustment is pretty easy--they just have to move the "lever" a little bit.

On a Rolex they use a fine Microstella tuning screw system not a balance lever.

Well cannot for life of me understand how Rolex USA gets away with this.Myself bought a SD in Singapore around 2000 in the far east for about 9 months.Returned to the UK timing went from +2 to about + 15.While up in London just popped into to a AD.Showed my papers watch was regulated and tested in about 30 minuets.

[mike]

Originally Posted by mickiratt

Thanks again everyone! And yes, it's nice to see a fellow Buckeye, Mike. I am an Ohio State University alumni. Go Bucks!

Me too. This is the year!!

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well cannot for life of me understand how Rolex USA gets away with this.Myself bought a SD in Singapore around 2000 in the far east for about 9 months.Returned to the UK timing went from +2 to about + 15.While up in London just popped into to a AD.Showed my papers watch was regulated and tested in about 30 minuets.

Have to agree on this one, Padi.

Any warranty issued by these top Swiss watchmakers (or any other reputed brand for that matter) is INTERNATIONAL.....which means the owner has the right to present the warranty and watch to any damn authorised centre anywhere in the whole wide world and get the job done.

As long as the Warranty paper is properly stamped and dated, there should be no problems whatsoever!!

So what's the fuss with some of these tossers?

[wmthedirector]

Steve you are very welcome to this beutifull forum.

[OysterDavid]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Have to agree on this one, Padi.

Any warranty issued by these top Swiss watchmakers (or any other reputed brand for that matter) is INTERNATIONAL.....which means the owner has the right to present the warranty and watch to any damn authorised centre anywhere in the whole wide world and get the job done.

As long as the Warranty paper is properly stamped and dated, there should be no problems whatsoever!!

So what's the fuss with some of these tossers?

I'll weigh in here.

I'm self employed in the service business. I've spent time over the past 20+ years learning my craft, keeping up with trends and generally being prepared to offer sales and service for my selected profession.

People call me for quotes...I offer them the best that I can do and still make a profit and keep the doors open. Sometimes people who've called me for a quote find the same product for less elsewhere, and that's all part of the game. What is not part of the game is for those people to come back to me and expect me to 'service' their product with advice or counsul because they were impressed with me and/or my knowledge in the original sales presentation, after having made the purchase elsewhere.

Now, there may be a provision between Rolex USA and AD's who have service facilities to reimburse for warranty repairs for any Rolex that goes on the fritz, but my guess is that probably comes at a reduced labor rate. Rolex USA does maintain 3 RSC facilities to handle the servicing of their products in and out of warranty.

I don't think it's out of line for an independent retailer to shy away from a non or low revenue transaction when the owner has already demonstrated an inclination to not do business with them. In this case, the buyer did his shopping and made a buying decision. If price was the only factor, then perhaps the first dealer who did not win the business charges more because there IS a repair facility on premise. Whatever, I don't think it unreasonable for the second dealer to decline to exhibit over the top service for what is statistically likely to be a one time only transaction with little revenue.

Yes, there are stories (or myths) about how a merchant delivered great service, declined payment and had a new customer for life who extolled the virtues of this particular merchants largesse. But in this age of big box stores and many, many postings here about how much one can discount the price of a new Rolex and how shopping for the best price is considered a virtue, I just don't see any downside to asking a consumer to get the thing fixed by those who manufactured the item, even though I'm one of those who would be pained to lose my Rolex for 3 weeks just after I'd bought it new.

Just my perspective delivered politely in a non confrontative way.

[mickiratt]

Originally Posted by OysterDavid

I'll weigh in here.

I'm self employed in the service business. I've spent time over the past 20+ years learning my craft, keeping up with trends and generally being prepared to offer sales and service for my selected profession.

People call me for quotes...I offer them the best that I can do and still make a profit and keep the doors open. Sometimes people who've called me for a quote find the same product for less elsewhere, and that's all part of the game. What is not part of the game is for those people to come back to me and expect me to 'service' their product with advice or counsul because they were impressed with me and/or my knowledge in the original sales presentation, after having made the purchase elsewhere.

Now, there may be a provision between Rolex USA and AD's who have service facilities to reimburse for warranty repairs for any Rolex that goes on the fritz, but my guess is that probably comes at a reduced labor rate. Rolex USA does maintain 3 RSC facilities to handle the servicing of their products in and out of warranty.

I don't think it's out of line for an independent retailer to shy away from a non or low revenue transaction when the owner has already demonstrated an inclination to not do business with them. In this case, the buyer did his shopping and made a buying decision. If price was the only factor, then perhaps the first dealer who did not win the business charges more because there IS a repair facility on premise. Whatever, I don't think it unreasonable for the second dealer to decline to exhibit over the top service for what is statistically likely to be a one time only transaction with little revenue.

Yes, there are stories (or myths) about how a merchant delivered great service, declined payment and had a new customer for life who extolled the virtues of this particular merchants largesse. But in this age of big box stores and many, many postings here about how much one can discount the price of a new Rolex and how shopping for the best price is considered a virtue, I just don't see any downside to asking a consumer to get the thing fixed by those who manufactured the item, even though I'm one of those who would be pained to lose my Rolex for 3 weeks just after I'd bought it new.

Just my perspective delivered politely in a non confrontative way.

I agree with much of what you are saying. Maybe they thought I was just a one time deal who may even end up disatisfied from the work. That AD has the right to take on or turn down any business they would like. However, I personaly do not agree with that particular philosophy in this case. The power of "word of mouth" is paramount in this business. I was not previously aware that this particular AD had a watchmaker on the premesis untill I had a reason to look for a watchmaker. Also, I didn't shop his store and end up buying somewhere else. I purchased from a friend that I used to work with, who happens to be in the business now.

The point I'm trying to make is, had they serviced my watch, I would have had the potential to tell five other Rolex owners to check out his store. Maybe one or two of those would have eventually made a major purchase. It's good to have many walking billboards instead of a select few, IMO. I would have been perfectly OK if they had told me up front that they prefer to work on the watches they sell.

[Uncle-AJ]

Hello Steve and welcome to TRF. I hope you get your regulation problem solved but your situation with the local AD does sound strange.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by mickiratt

I agree with much of what you are saying. Maybe they thought I was just a one time deal who may even end up disatisfied from the work. That AD has the right to take on or turn down any business they would like. However, I personaly do not agree with that particular philosophy in this case. The power of "word of mouth" is paramount in this business. I was not previously aware that this particular AD had a watchmaker on the premesis untill I had a reason to look for a watchmaker. Also, I didn't shop his store and end up buying somewhere else. I purchased from a friend that I used to work with, who happens to be in the business now.

The point I'm trying to make is, had they serviced my watch, I would have had the potential to tell five other Rolex owners to check out his store. Maybe one or two of those would have eventually made a major purchase. It's good to have many walking billboards instead of a select few, IMO. I would have been perfectly OK if they had told me up front that they prefer to work on the watches they sell.

You've made a few valid points there, Steve. "Word of Mouth" is probably the BEST way to sell your wares in this hard and competitive world.

I'll stick by my guns. An International Warranty duly stamped, dated and issued by a legal and proper AD should be honoured any where, any place, any time and by any AD....anywhere in the world.

In fact, that's what the manufacturer claims in the booklet as well as on the warranty sheet.

JJ

[Dave Knoll]

"they just have to move the "lever" a little bit"

There's no 'lever' to move on a 3135; it's not pin regulated.

Rather, the mass of the balance is mediated via the gross and fine timing screws or nuts that're mounted on the rim...a somewhat more precise and permanent method than sliding curb pins along the balance spring.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Dave Knoll

"they just have to move the "lever" a little bit"

There's no 'lever' to move on a 3135; it's not pin regulated.

Rather, the mass of the balance is mediated via the gross and fine timing screws or nuts that're mounted on the rim...a somewhat more precise and permanent method than sliding curb pins along the balance spring.

"Microstella" screws they are called, right?

And it's great to have you back and posting, Dave. Please stick around....we do need you....ever so often!!

[Islander]

Yes.... and yes it's good to have the wisdom of Dave.

It's strange and disheartening- the lack of informed help from the AD. I wish they would clue up or admit that they are usually just a shop, staffed with mere shop assistants!.

We all expect something better, and they rarely live up to the expectations.

My own AD is fine for commercial deals (and a good friend), but he's the first to admit that he's hopeless on the techie knowledge. (Actually, very basic knowledge... otherwise I'd be beaten myself!) :-(

[znobleman]

Gents.. I am also a newby to the community.. Just bought a 2009 Milgauss and I am in the process of tracking the time. Help me out here.. What is an AD (Authorized Dealer?) Also, does anyone have a time tracker for monitoring the changes over time? I put a spreadsheet together and I am using the Atomic clock website ( http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5/java ) to check it daily. Currently I am losing about 4 seconds a day.

Love to hear your opinions and suggestions. Mike

[gregory]

Originally Posted by padi56

First welcome to TRF Steve the answer yes a few, now first give your watch a full manual wind around 40 turns of the crown.Then wear the watch for about 8 hours plus daily, and do a check over a week,check timing from same source.If timing is still outside the COSC -4 TO+7 Secs daily,take it to be regulated at AD quite a simple job.And could be done while you wait if AD has watchmaker in house.Some movement take a few months to bed in,and normally settle down,so my advice to you,inform your AD about your problem,make a note of who you reported it to.But give your watch just a little more time before regulation and the back has to come of

Well, I've decided to bring up this post as I've been looking around this great site as mine has been a bit of a gainer since I picked her up about 18 months ago.

I have a 2004 Submariner 14060M no date, two liner, non COSC.

She always ran quick at +5 a day, which of course I can live with.. but I was interested in the 'crown up or down' self regulation that it's rumoured to be true.

I read the above post.

So, as opposed to just living with it winding automatically.. I gave it the full 40 rounds manual wind as advised above.

Even though it nipped a little in the 30's, I gave her the full 40 (more 'charge' than ever before), set her perfectly with hacked seconds to the Microsoft 'hands clock' on the bottom right taskbar, and went to bed.

I put her crown down.

Needless to say, for the first time ever, she actually slowed two seconds overnight, and I have had her running on wrist now for 72 hours.

Just checked now, and from setting, with the same exact clock.. she's running in at..

+2.5 seconds OVER A THREE DAY PERIOD!!

Yikes!!


Don't know if it was due to the full 40 wind, must have been, but all I can say is that it's actually done something to the watches peformance.. and I am gobsmacked to say the least.

0.83 seconds average day per full 24 hours.


It's 2004, never been serviced, and ain't going nowhere!! It could only be made worse. I'll have Rolex UK give it a service on it's 10th Anno in 2014!!


padi56.. top advice mate.. whatever happened, it's righted the wrong of a cumulative gain.. even if it settles into a faster groove now, after settling, I'll take that average any day of the week!!


+ 0.83 PER DAY!!!


P.S. I know.. I know. +5 a day wasn't the end of the world. I'm just greedy!