SCAMMED for 116500LN In Marketplace - WATCH OUT for Jizzle01

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by pjjames916

Have you ever disputed a charge higher then $500 with a CC company?

Yes- and they have all been resolved in my favor. I should specify a couple things, though:

• I don't use the credit card companies you specified for those sorts of charges. I've heard enough horror stories from others. You're right: they're like insurance companies. I stay away.
• I take meticulous care and record of my transaction details. Most would say I go overboard, but at the end of the day, the peace of mind is priceless.
• I still use shipping insurance whenever I can. For watches I've had no problems- it's funny how the shipping companies suddenly take care of your stuff when they know they have a lot to lose.

Originally Posted by pjjames916

I have had endless issues with...Capital One.

I used to use Capital One for personal stuff, usually for charges under $50 or so. When I needed to file a dispute, Capital One went through every possible way to avoid helping me. I cut them off happily and have no desire to ever go back- I just don't have endless time to fight for that $35 that's rightfully mine.

I still advocate using credit card companies, but I did a lot of due diligence to see which ones are better than others (for business purposes).

[pallindrome]

That must have been 1 of the longest 36 hours of your life! I'm glad you're back to where you were financially. All the best for your next purchase & hopefully it works well for you!

[datejustrms]

Great news!

[hobby]

Originally Posted by pjjames916

You guys are not going to believe this but I just received a call from my bank that the funds came back. I have confirmed they’re in the account and available. Someone was looking out for me here. I don’t have all the details yet but apparently it was rejected on the recipients end. My bank is guessing that there is some kind of fraud lock on their account that made it reject and it just took 72 hours to cycle back. Major lesson learned...I will NEVER wire again!

Phew. Happy for you.

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[Fire bloke]

Pleased it's sorted..this should be a lesson for all

[Wmesallem]

Originally Posted by pjjames916

I have had endless issues with American Express and Capital One over fully legitimate disputes and chargebacks where I was either not delivered something for my business or the item was damaged upon arrival or broke within a couple days of ownership. I’d hate to see how they treat a $20k+ watch transaction. I find them to be like insurance companies where they’ll find every excuse to not take liability. Have you ever disputed a charge higher then $500 with a CC company?

I’ve used Amex with no problems ever. Now I wish to get something clear hear, almost all credit card companies will start to question disputes if you got a ton of them. I may have a dispute once every 2-3 years and only as a last resort. A majority of times I get them solved on the sales side. Many people now a days will just immediately dispute a transaction instead of contacting the seller and trying to get it resolved that way.

As others have said, it’s about proper documentation and procedure. If you use PayPal, make sure it’s a commercial transaction and not a personal one. Make sure you have receipts/invoices and tracking numbers. I honestly will never use PayPal for a purchase without going the legit route.


Never wire, western union, bitcoin, etc unless you’re in person and taking delivery at that moment. Make sure you ALWAYS GET a receipt even if it’s hand written along with a picture of the guys drivers license as he or she can easily call the police (especially if it’s a crypto transaction as it’s not traceable) and day it was stolen. The key is documentation. I even do this if I am buying a used car. I actually take it a step forward and record the licensed owner signing the paperwork (had a guy claim to dmv that he never sold the car and it was stolen along with title and his signature was a fake, the video saved a loss of 15k). So document document document, if the seller is being weird about it, turn around and walk away. 99% of the time you’ll probably never have to use it but that 1 time out of 100 you’ll be glad you had it.

My advice to everyone, just do the transaction in person. If you’re going to spend 20-25k on a watch, most (if you are in the US or canada) can afford to pay the extra 1k max in travel expense to pickup the watch. I’ve literally flown across country for purchase as it’s easier and a million times safer then wiring money. In this day and age there is so many ways to commit fraud. Shoot I have a car for sale on cL and 95% of calls texts and emails are some fraud or another. At the end it’s about safe dealing. There are legit grey sellers on here but in my opinion I would still fly out to pickup a 20k watch from even the most legit grey on here. Just piece of mind.


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[Jamesgraham91]

Sorry to hear about this. I hope you get your money back.

[pjjames916]

This guy is at it again - Xamy is the new name and below is the post. Watch out guys! I will post a separate thread as well. I also contacted a moderator regarding it but haven't heard back. Most likely they'll have him do a stop check and post the watch with time set, but they did this before with a Daytona and so he obviously has the watches in his possession...or someone he's working with does. I'd be curious to see if someone here who is more tuned in to how this is done could pull the location info from the photo's through the metadata? Not sure if it's possible...

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ghlight=114060

[pjjames916]

I also found out through my bank and Wells Fargo that the only saving grace with regards to my money being returned is that he gave me the wrong beneficiary address and therefore Wells Fargo rejected the wire. Had that been correct it would have gone through without issue. Also, the name the guy is using to communicate is Eric Fluger.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by hobby

How does one do a reverse picture search?

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Following.

[62396241]

This is worrying. I can’t believe we don’t have a 100 post requirement to list watches up to $5000 or less a 350 post requirement up to $10,000 and 750 post requirement for watches over $15,000


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[EEpro]

Originally Posted by 62396241

This is worrying. I can’t believe we don’t have a 100 post requirement to list watches up to $5000 or less a 350 post requirement up to $10,000 and 750 post requirement for watches over $15,000


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I don't think post counts correlate to honesty. How about a credit check with full social security etc. just like employers or landlords do for a background check. We pay the $50 fees.

[Jim Smyth]

[QUOTE] Originally Posted by hobby View Post
How does one do a reverse picture search? [QUOTE]

1. Type in Google
2. Click Images or the Camera icon
3. I save a picture I want to search for on my desktop so when I get to the place you have to make a choice insert the exact picture you want located.
4. Scroll down and see what comes up.

[mailman]

Originally Posted by EEpro

I don't think post counts correlate to honesty. How about a credit check with full social security etc. just like employers or landlords do for a background check. We pay the $50 fees.

Great idea! We'll set up a separate section and call it Rollifax and it will do nothing but give out and post member's credit scores. We'll link up with the Social Security Dept so they can willingly hand over a member's SSN. How about TRF just go ahead and post those too. Might as well just go ahead and post member's addresses with pictures of their houses and families too. I'm sure there has to be someone who wants to volunteer 24/7 to moderate the section too.

It's all so simple and it's been said 10,000 before.


Buy...the...seller. Period.


OP, I'm glad your money was returned to you.

[Jim Smyth]

To be honest I see both sides of this problem. I do buy the seller and do it in person so there's no surprises later. But with all the scams there seems there should be a better way to protect those that dont buy the seller which are normally newer people.

Has the powers to be every considered making it a little more difficult to sell? Meaning more post counts would be a way to make it harder and more time consuming for a scam/seller to set up shop? Or a time interval with a year or so waiting period? There has to be a way to make it more difficult for a scammer while not making it more work for the mods. There's plenty of selling venues for those that cant wait.

I hate thieves and it seems this forum has a lot of them and they thrive here. I couldnt imagine forking over 10K after saving my whole life, being excited to get my first Rolex grail only to find out I sent my money to a thief. Would take the wind right out of my sail and make me never trust anyone or want to get into watches again.

[Wmesallem]

Originally Posted by EEpro

I don't think post counts correlate to honesty. How about a credit check with full social security etc. just like employers or landlords do for a background check. We pay the $50 fees.

All the infrastructure exists. It’s called PayPal. Just follow these steps.

1) make sure both parties are verified
2) make sure seller issues buyer an invoice through PayPal’s system.
3) buyer pays seller.
4) Seller takes the 3 percent hit. Both you have protection.
5) seller ships.
6) nothing arrives or something fake arrives, buyer gets his money back.

PayPal has saved my butt on a watch deal 4 years ago for a grand carrera. If we are not meeting in person, then pay the 3 percent.


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[lutzwinky]

Originally Posted by Wmesallem

I’m sorry to hear you getting scammed. A few things which threw up a red flag from me on your post. The first is the account name. It’s a random Corp name and nothing to do with watches. It’s also not a persons name if it were an individual. The second thing is the city and phone number. The phone number is in San Diego (Southern California) and the address is Martinez (Northern California). The last red flag is the phone number. If you run it through a phone carrier lookup, it shows “Bandwidth CLEC (Sybase)” as the carrier, it’s one of the companies google voice uses.

But your not completely out of luck. I did some research for you and came across some info. I will send it to you through a pm and I hope it helps.






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Well said!!!! Sorry mate.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by mailman

Great idea! We'll set up a separate section and call it Rollifax and it will do nothing but give out and post member's credit scores. We'll link up with the Social Security Dept so they can willingly hand over a member's SSN. How about TRF just go ahead and post those too. Might as well just go ahead and post member's addresses with pictures of their houses and families too. I'm sure there has to be someone who wants to volunteer 24/7 to moderate the section too.

It's all so simple and it's been said 10,000 before.


Buy...the...seller. Period.


OP, I'm glad your money was returned to you.

That's a bit dramatic. A credit or criminal check to allow your account to sell $10K devices with no commission does not warrant this overblown slippery slope nonsense.

[mailman]

Originally Posted by EEpro

That's a bit dramatic. A credit or criminal check to allow your account to sell $10K devices with no commission does not warrant this overblown slippery slope nonsense.

Asking TRF do do your due diligence is a bit dramatic? Sure, TRF will set up a credit check and a back round check business to verify sellers for people who are too lazy to do their own homework. Not to mention it probably would be a full time job for someone. TRF doesn't sell watches. Individuals do. People send their own money on their own free will. We don't force anyone to do anything. Is it a slippery slope? Sure. Do your homework. Buy from the handful of longtime established members and no one will have a problem. Asking TRF to do a criminal and credit check is ridiculous

Did anyone trademark Rollifax yet?

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by EEpro

That's a bit dramatic. A credit or criminal check to allow your account to sell $10K devices with no commission does not warrant this overblown slippery slope nonsense.

The idea of a credit and criminal check is fair enough.

A potential purchaser of an item could approach the potential seller and they could go about their business in this fashion.

Doesn't affect us mods, though it strikes me that the member who performs zero due-dilligence is hardly going to change his ways because it's a good idea.

If, on the other hand you are suggesting that TRF mods perform this as a service, then my buddy Mailman has said it already.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by mailman

Did anyone trademark Rollifax yet?

Done.

First offer over £15k and it's theirs.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

The idea of a credit and criminal check is fair enough.



A potential purchaser of an item could approach the potential seller and they could go about their business in this fashion.



Doesn't affect us mods, though it strikes me that the member who performs zero due-dilligence is hardly going to change his ways because it's a good idea.



If, on the other hand you are suggesting that TRF mods perform this as a service, then my buddy Mailman has said it already.

Yep, it was just another idea for discussion like using only PayPal or meeting face to face at AD. Wasn't meant to be so polarizing. You're right that the hurried and naive will always be the ones falling for these scams no matter what you do to try to keep them safe.

[Baco Noir]

Originally Posted by Wmesallem

All the infrastructure exists. It’s called PayPal. Just follow these steps.

1) make sure both parties are verified
2) make sure seller issues buyer an invoice through PayPal’s system.
3) buyer pays seller.
4) Seller takes the 3 percent hit. Both you have protection.
5) seller ships.
6) nothing arrives or something fake arrives, buyer gets his money back.

PayPal has saved my butt on a watch deal 4 years ago for a grand carrera. If we are not meeting in person, then pay the 3 percent.


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It’s a dangerous proposition for the seller though. Buyers have up to 6 months to complain something was wrong and PP will side with them most of the time.

[Wmesallem]

Originally Posted by Baco Noir

It’s a dangerous proposition for the seller though. Buyers have up to 6 months to complain something was wrong and PP will side with them most of the time.

Not if every single precaution is taken, you can
Minimize the risk. That includes takeoff photos and videos of packaging, model numbers, serial number, etc.

To be honest, you’re right. There is a risk. But the risk is lower then just a straight wire. Plus as the seller you can still sue PayPal if they don’t side with you.

Other than that, in person is the only way.


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[Baco Noir]

Originally Posted by Wmesallem

Not if every single precaution is taken, you can
Minimize the risk. That includes takeoff photos and videos of packaging, model numbers, serial number, etc.

To be honest, you’re right. There is a risk. But the risk is lower then just a straight wire. Plus as the seller you can still sue PayPal if they don’t side with you.

Other than that, in person is the only way.


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A friend on another forum had a buyer file a PP claim a few days before the end of the six month period. He claimed he’d just finally opened the box and the second hand had fallen off. PP sided with the buyer.

[MT_Timepieces]

Call your bank and his bank and report it as fraud. If the funds are still in his account they might be able to freeze it for you and revert the transaction. Also make a police report for paper trail.

Hope it works out for you!

[Wmesallem]

Originally Posted by Baco Noir

A friend on another forum had a buyer file a PP claim a few days before the end of the six month period. He claimed he’d just finally opened the box and the second hand had fallen off. PP sided with the buyer.

Your friend would be entitled to have the watch back. I’ve sold some high value items using PayPal for payment and I do several things as safe guards. The first is I take photos of all labels and serial numbers. The second is I take a video showing the serial number first followed by the actual act of myself packaging the item and sealing the cartons along with affixing the shipping label. After everything is packaged I draw something across the packaging tape with permanent marker. Once the package is ready I take more photos always showing the same drawing. Lastly when I drop
It off, I take a video of the package with the receipt showing it was dropped off.

Lastly, I make sure to issue invoices that show that ALL SALES ARE FINAL!!! Along with a disclaimer stating that any claims for damage have to be made within 24 hours and if the package arrives damaged, it must be rejected upon attempted delivery.

With all this evidence, if PayPal sides with the seller, I would first ask for the item back. When the package arrives, I would take a video of unboxing the shipping package with the tracking number visible along with verifying serial numbers. If the serial number doesn’t match the first video, it’s evidence that the item was switched.

At this point PayPal could side with him as much as they want, but since you have all this evidence and they don’t, then all that’s left is to file suit. I don’t sell anything over a 1k and have never sold a watch, but small claims usually suffices for a lawsuit and PayPal
Won’t show up because it’s cheaper to pay the 1k then to fly someone out and in California, they can’t hirer a lawyer.

At the end it’s documentation. If you document, you’re safe, if you don’t, then you can end up losing if the other guy is dishonest. But when it comes to a watch that costs 20k or even 10k, i do it like I do cars, face to face. Meet at the bank and do the exchange there.


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[httr91]

[Bizcut1]

I'm in favor of TRF exploring a partnership / agreement with Chrono24 or another like service and establishing a protocol involving a safe and secure escrow process.

Go ahead and sub-brand it as a service here and charge for it. It can be done.

Ben

[mailman]

Originally Posted by Bizcut1

I'm in favor of TRF exploring a partnership / agreement with Chrono24 or another like service and establishing a protocol involving a safe and secure escrow process.

Go ahead and sub-brand it as a service here and charge for it. It can be done.

Ben

TRF doesn't sell watches.