PAM609 - Would appreciate some advice!

[dg88]

Hi there,

I'm new here (1st post) so please go easy on me. You all seem like a nice bunch from the posts I have read which led me to sign up!
I'm new to Panerai and my interest started after I tried the new Black Seal 754 in the London official dealership and fell in love with the craftsmanship. They are gorgeous looking timepieces that's for sure! After researching the exhaustive model list I am very interested in the 609 as it still seems reasonably affordable (RRP = £5400 albeit seen them cheaper), classic-looking, slim profile and what appears to be a positively reviewed P5000 movement which seemingly lasts up to 9 days in testing!

My wrist size is 6.75-7" (thereabouts...). I would be grateful if you could share your opinion regarding whether the 45mm size is suitable for my smaller wrist given I am used to the GMT Master II 40mm size? I attach a wrist shot of the 754 I tried on (also 45mm). I thought it looked ok? I'm nervous I'm completely wrong and it looks terrible on me as I'm not used to these sizes yet love the watch!

Thanks in advance 🙂

D

[Cru Jones]

Hi, welcome to the forums.

Only you can know what’s the right size for you, but Panerais are supposed to be big - it’s the DNA. That being said, Rads with wire lugs will wear smaller than Luminors.

As for 609 vs. 754, the 609 has the 8-day movement, but it costs more and has “8 DAYS” written on the dial. Regarding the 754, you have to decide if you are okay with the snap-on case back.

If you are willing to consider pre-owned, also look at 183, 212, 232 and 380.

Good luck with the hunt!

[pdnb]

My wrist is similar to yours, and I believe the 45mm will suit your wrist fine.

First shot is 42mm (338) the 2nd two are 45mm (190)






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[dg88]

Cru,

Thanks for the welcome and for confirming my thoughts about wrist size (wearing smaller). Appreciate the suggestions re 183, 212, 232 and 380 and would consider pre-owned but am terrified of the prospect of being sold something which isn't genuine. Do you have any recommendations on 'trusted' places to purchased 'used' Panerai?

Pdnb - I very much appreciate the photos you've shared, thank you. Both watches look first class on you. It really confirms my thoughts that I'd be able to get away with a 45mm one.

Thanks again for your responses. Would be curious for your view on recommended trusted sites if it isn't any trouble.

Best wishes,

D

[dg88]

I forgot to ask...

Given this is a significant purchase for me, I want to make the right decision. I note there is a lot of talk online about 'in house' movements Vs third party movements being used, although I don't really understand the significance of this (if any). Let's use the PAM 00183 as an example. The movement is an 'OP XI' with 56hr power reserve. Is this an in house movement? Does this matter? Put simply, should I be focusing on buying a watch which is in house? If you could keep your response as straightforward as possible (i.e. what would you do in my shoes) I would be grateful as it's rather confusing for a beginner Panerai enthusiast!

Thanks again ��

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by dg88

Cru,

Thanks for the welcome and for confirming my thoughts about wrist size (wearing smaller). Appreciate the suggestions re 183, 212, 232 and 380 and would consider pre-owned but am terrified of the prospect of being sold something which isn't genuine. Do you have any recommendations on 'trusted' places to purchased 'used' Panerai?

Pdnb - I very much appreciate the photos you've shared, thank you. Both watches look first class on you. It really confirms my thoughts that I'd be able to get away with a 45mm one.

Thanks again for your responses. Would be curious for your view on recommended trusted sites if it isn't any trouble.

Best wishes,

D

Seeing as you are in London, there surely are many reputable retail locations from which you could buy second-hand.

As for online, I don’t know of any UK-based sites. There are a number of US-based reputable sellers on this forum you could contact. In fact, I bought my only PAM from DavidSW in 2011. He shipped it to a hotel in the States while I was visiting for work.

Originally Posted by dg88

I forgot to ask...

Given this is a significant purchase for me, I want to make the right decision. I note there is a lot of talk online about 'in house' movements Vs third party movements being used, although I don't really understand the significance of this (if any). Let's use the PAM 00183 as an example. The movement is an 'OP XI' with 56hr power reserve. Is this an in house movement? Does this matter? Put simply, should I be focusing on buying a watch which is in house? If you could keep your response as straightforward as possible (i.e. what would you do in my shoes) I would be grateful as it's rather confusing for a beginner Panerai enthusiast!

Thanks again ��

“OP” movements are 3rd-party movements. Usually top-grade ETA, which are robust, reliable and easy to service.

As for what I would do? I wouldn’t get caught-up in in-house vs 3rd party (but that’s just me)... I would just look for which watch I liked best that was in my price range. That’s what I did and I still love my 164 after almost a decade.... maybe if I had chosen the “classic” choice I wouldn’t still have it.

[dg88]

Thanks Cru, that's bloody good advice! �� It really is easy to overthink these things! Seen a nice 183 I like for £3995. Seems it has held its value over the years but in all honesty, I'm really not buying a Panerai with the thought in the back of my mind that it'll hold value, but because I genuinely want one to last a lifetime.

Best wishes and thanks again ��. Will let you know what I go for when it happens!

[Cru Jones]

^ Good luck! Looks like you’re getting closer.

Post some photos when it comes in. :-)

[pdnb]

Haha!... the 183 was the very first Panerai that caught my eye. Pin cushion wire lugged radiomirs are classic, Simple and bold with its design. I ended up going for a luminor as my first Panerai, but the crown guard is quite different to other watches so you want to try them on first.

One of the beauties in Panerai is changing straps and it’s harder to do with Radiomirs.

Be very careful with buying a preowned 183 though. The fakes are really good and you best make sure to get a
Complete set with box and papers from a reputable dealer.

In house movements, while harder to service are a lot hard to fake.

I usually advise to get a preowned watch to minimize losses if you decide to trade or sell and if you get a Panerai manufactured in 2018 or later there is a good chance you can get an extended warranty for 6 more years (out to 2026). You need all the correct paperwork etc. As watches after that date have 8 yr warranties. Please confirm my dates but I should be close.


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[emtee]

Originally Posted by dg88

Cru,

Thanks for the welcome and for confirming my thoughts about wrist size (wearing smaller). Appreciate the suggestions re 183, 212, 232 and 380 and would consider pre-owned but am terrified of the prospect of being sold something which isn't genuine. Do you have any recommendations on 'trusted' places to purchased 'used' Panerai?

Pdnb - I very much appreciate the photos you've shared, thank you. Both watches look first class on you. It really confirms my thoughts that I'd be able to get away with a 45mm one.

Thanks again for your responses. Would be curious for your view on recommended trusted sites if it isn't any trouble.

Best wishes,

D

Here's a few trustworthy pre-owned online sellers in the UK, of course there are more.

Watchfinder
Blowers
Mark Worthington
Edinburgh Watch company

For BNIB grey dealers i've used both Guardian of Time and Watches World and both delivered exactly what they said they would. You'll save 20-25% off retail going the grey route for most current models.

[dg88]

Originally Posted by pdnb

One of the beauties in Panerai is changing straps and it’s harder to do with Radiomirs.

Be very careful with buying a preowned 183 though. The fakes are really good and you best make sure to get a
Complete set with box and papers from a reputable dealer.

In house movements, while harder to service are a lot hard to fake.

I usually advise to get a preowned watch to minimize losses if you decide to trade or sell and if you get a Panerai manufactured in 2018 or later there is a good chance you can get an extended warranty for 6 more years (out to 2026). You need all the correct paperwork etc. As watches after that date have 8 yr warranties. Please confirm my dates but I should be close.

Thanks Pdnb, I have heard it's more challenging to change straps on the wire lugs, but tbh, I don't see myself doing it too often unless I'm going overseas (rubber strap change!). Most of the time I'll be happy with a nice brown leather strap which I'll use in place of the one which comes with the watch. Good tip though, thanks - especially regarding the 2018 extended warranty rule! Will also be cautious about the 183. With this in mind (fakes), it does make it difficult to know who to trust other than the official dealer!

Best wishes.

[dg88]

Originally Posted by emtee

Here's a few trustworthy pre-owned online sellers in the UK, of course there are more.

Watchfinder
Blowers
Mark Worthington
Edinburgh Watch company

For BNIB grey dealers i've used both Guardian of Time and Watches World and both delivered exactly what they said they would. You'll save 20-25% off retail going the grey route for most current models.

Thanks for this! Much appreciated 😊

[dg88]

Throwing a bit of a 'wildcard' into the equation, what are your thoughts on the newish PAM00754 from their entry level range? I actually tried this on at the official dealer, Old Bond Street (London) and thought it was lovely. Obviously since then I've read about countless other examples and I've been diverting my thoughts to anything from the 287/388/514/609/188 to name a few haha! I attach a wrist shot of the 754 on me. Honest thoughts please, if poss? I understand it happens to be limited to 1000 pieces too which could help residual values in the future?

Edit: Unable to post wrist shot because of my level I believe but plenty of material out there - Google '754 - Gentleman of Panerai's' - an interesting article comes up!

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by dg88

Throwing a bit of a 'wildcard' into the equation, what are your thoughts on the newish PAM00754 from their entry level range? I actually tried this on at the official dealer, Old Bond Street (London) and thought it was lovely. Obviously since then I've read about countless other examples and I've been diverting my thoughts to anything from the 287/388/514/609/188 to name a few haha! I attach a wrist shot of the 754 on me. Honest thoughts please, if poss? I understand it happens to be limited to 1000 pieces too which could help residual values in the future?

Edit: Unable to post wrist shot because of my level I believe but plenty of material out there - Google '754 - Gentleman of Panerai's' - an interesting article comes up!

The 754 is a nice piece let down (IMHO) by Panerai’s odd decision to use a cheap/budget snap-on case back instead of traditional (for Panerai) screw down. Poke around the forums and you’ll see many people bemoaning this move by Panerai.

When the 754 first came out and before I knew about the back, I tried it at a boutique and really liked it.

[dg88]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

The 754 is a nice piece let down (IMHO) by Panerai’s odd decision to use a cheap/budget snap-on case back instead of traditional (for Panerai) screw down. Poke around the forums and you’ll see many people bemoaning this move by Panerai.

When the 754 first came out and before I knew about the back, I tried it at a boutique and really liked it.

When I first tried on the 754 I hadn't really done much research so the snap on case aspect didn't even occur to me, let alone bother me. It still felt like nice quality and like no watch I've ever worn before. Now I can't help but feel a sense of paranoia and as though I'll be doing myself a disservice if I purchase this watch when, in reality, it'll most likely be perfect for my first (and potentially only) Panerai as a watch to add to my collection. After all, why should the snap back matter? It's still depth rated after all to 100m right?

I've seen a nice 183 for sale on the blowers-jewellers dot co dot UK website for £3950 which, having looked at the market, is perhaps a bit too overpriced at the moment(?)...plus there's things I read about even reputable jewellers being sold excellent fakes - again makes me worry I'll purchase something online and live to regret it! Saying that, I know where they are located in Mayfair and their reviews are excellent. Maybe someone wouldn't mind having a look at the ad and seeing what they think? I can't share the link though! :(

So I summarise:

Pros of 754:

- Available now direct from Panerai (£4200) with a rather attractive 0% finance method too to save capital...
- Limited edition (I believe... - 1000 pieces?). Will it be sought after in years to come?
- Attractive looking model.
- P6000 IN HOUSE movement is new and I've read good things...
- Up to date.


Cons

- Depreciation once purchased... But it will be a watch I'll keep for years to come, not something I'll sell so quite irrelevant to me.
- Snap back case (lots of negativity around this).
- No sandwich dial...


Pros of 183

- Clear case back showing off beautiful movement.
- Sought after model.
- Attractive looking - love the sandwich dial (but who doesn't?)
- Buying 'used' means I won't lose much depreciation after, if any.

Cons

- Risk of fakes
- Online purchase (relates to 'fakes' point)
- Cannot assess the watch in person due to covid' - have to trust word of seller.
- Not in house movement.
- Not limited edition

Can't think of anymore......hard to decide between the two!

[Cru Jones]

^ I know on this forum there are people who happily own the 754 and are not at all bothered by the back. It’s up to you.

My Panerai is an automatic with inverted cyclops, full Arabic dial and quick strap change buttons, and there are plenty of Paneristi who frown on those aspects.... Doesn’t matter to me. I love my 164. :-)

[dg88]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

^ I know on this forum there are people who happily own the 754 and are not at all bothered by the back. It’s up to you.

My Panerai is an automatic with inverted cyclops, full Arabic dial and quick strap change buttons, and there are plenty of Paneristi who frown on those aspects.... Doesn’t matter to me. I love my 164. :-)

Just googled the 164 - stunning. My style too.

Have enquired with Panerai. "Due to Covid'" they're having severe availability issues by the sounds of it. That said, I'm not in too much of a hurry as can try on once this dreadful time is over with...

[dg88]

Does anyone know of Watches of Mayfair? There's a 00609 for sale brand new with 13% off RRP?

https://watchesofmayfair.com/brand/p...ciaio-pam00609

Upon googling there's a few people who have asked the 'Genuine?' question but I haven't seen an issue given Trustpilot reviews are 900+ positive, along with Google? Seems they have a store presence too.

Too good to be true? I note what was said above about non-authorised dealers being able to offer larger discounts but would appreciate your thoughts - i.e. whether you've heard of them etc. Very responsive to emails.

[dg88]

Via email they explained:

"We only sell new authentic watches with a full set of documents, manufacturer warranty and packaging. The warranty is signed on your name by an authorised dealer few days prior to dispatching the product to your address. So, you may contact any authorised service centre to get any assistance you may need.

Panerai provides a 2-year international warranty. Once you receive your watch, you will be able to register it on the manufacturer website and get another 6 years of warranty. So, in total, you will get 8 years of manufacturer warranty."

Additional email:

"We are not an authorised dealer to Panarei that gives us more flexibility in prices.However, our suppliers are that guarantee the authenticity of the watches we source and the warranty validity.

We are on the market since 2014. We have worked very hard to gain our reputation and clientele so there is no reason for us to risk and supply any replicas of falty products."

All sounds very reasonable?

[emtee]

I’ve never bought from them but they are 100% legit as far as I’m aware

13% doesn’t sound like much of a discount I would expect at least 20% going grey, although I’m not familiar with this model so maybe it’s a fair deal. Check out the 2 dealers I mentioned previously for comparison.

Edit - Having said the above every watch I’ve bought grey was sourced in the EU and now we have left it may not be practical given the costs of importing now. Perhaps UK grey dealers have to source their watches within the UK now meaning less competitive discounts.

[dg88]

Originally Posted by emtee

I’ve never bought from them but they are 100% legit as far as I’m aware

13% doesn’t sound like much of a discount I would expect at least 20% going grey, although I’m not familiar with this model so maybe it’s a fair deal. Check out the 2 dealers I mentioned previously for comparison.

Edit - Having said the above every watch I’ve bought grey was sourced in the EU and now we have left it may not be practical given the costs of importing now. Perhaps UK grey dealers have to source their watches within the UK now meaning less competitive discounts.

Thanks Emtee, I feel I had a positive interaction with them via email - didn't feel under any pressure. I would like to visit them after lockdown to meet them in person. They confirmed they PAM00609 is sold out with Panerai and no longer available for ordering, unfortunately... I do wonder whether this is because of covid but they didn't say.

I'll be sure to check out Guardian of Time and Watches World as a comparison, thanks again. I actually didn't notice you mentioned them! Interesting what you're saying about 20% being the magic number for grey. How on earth so they manage such discounts?!

[dg88]

Update:

Interesting to see Watches World are quoting the PAM00754 (£4200RRP) almost £1000 cheaper than RRP (and new):

https://www.watchesworld.com/?f_bran...t_by=price_low

[dg88]

PAM00609 arriving tomorrow - ordered from Watchfinder. Service was very good which surprised me given the varied reviews, albeit mostly from a seller's perspective. Hoping the watch turns out ok as taking a risk buying preowned personally.

[dg88]

Here it is! My first Panerai! Hope the link works. Really pleased.

[dg88]

https://ibb.co/pRJvkgh

[DOUBLE 0 SE7EN]

Looks great .. enjoy and wear it in good health..

Originally Posted by dg88

https://ibb.co/pRJvkgh

[dg88]

Originally Posted by DOUBLE 0 SE7EN

Looks great .. enjoy and wear it in good health..

Thanks!

[emtee]

Very nice, congrats!

[dg88]

Originally Posted by emtee

Very nice, congrats!

Thanks Emtee and I very much appreciate the Watchfinder suggestion you gave me above. Thank you.

[emtee]

Originally Posted by dg88

Thanks Emtee and I very much appreciate the Watchfinder suggestion you gave me above. Thank you.

You're welcome, glad it all worked out.

I bought my 112 from them and it was a perfect transaction. The fact they are an authorised Panerai service centre and provide a 2 year warranty gives an extra level of peace of mind.