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Old 25 February 2020, 12:28 PM   #1
hcivic91
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Layered Security

A good setup would consist of good deadbolts, security system, insurance and a safe. Not all that can be stored in a safe can be insured and thus I am struggling with how secure a safe should be part of the layered approach. How have you thought about this or s there a rule of thumb? For instance for $1k or valuables spend $100 on a safe. For $10k spend $1k and for $25k+ a $2500 safe? Any input is appreciated.
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Old 25 February 2020, 01:02 PM   #2
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I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I have very good, very secure ideas. BUT, not sharing them is the cornerstone by which they work. Once you decide what you're going to do, the most secure thing you can do is keep it to yourself. Good luck.

There are, of course, some no-brainers like bolting down your safe. Also bolt your safe down in an orientation that doesn't allow for long prying tools to be effective.
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Old 25 February 2020, 01:16 PM   #3
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thanks for the response. Not looking for ideas other than how I should think about expendenture on a safe or safes. On a daily basis I try to be frugal which won’t lead to the right level of security in a safe so I though benchmarking with how others think about the situation would be helpful, in the abstract.
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Old 25 February 2020, 01:16 PM   #4
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There is more to security than theft.

A good security system mitigates risk, theft, fire, natural disaster, etc.

Insurance papers, jewelry, passports, life-documents, watches, and other stuff all deserve to be protected.

Get a good fire rated, intrusion rated safe, substantial enough to be secured to the floor or structure, then use it.
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Old 25 February 2020, 01:44 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by hcivic91 View Post
thanks for the response. Not looking for ideas other than how I should think about expendenture on a safe or safes. On a daily basis I try to be frugal which won’t lead to the right level of security in a safe so I though benchmarking with how others think about the situation would be helpful, in the abstract.


Check out "sturdy safe" in CA. They have a lot of thick steel for the money. I use their tall skinny 4 gauge steel safe for guitars. They have videos on YouTube showing them to be impervious to pry attacks. Their base models are better than nearly any brand you're likely to have heard of. Call them for the best price.

Keep in mind that power cutting tools and torches can get into any non UL rated safe in minutes.
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Old 25 February 2020, 02:21 PM   #6
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One layer you passed over is perimeter motion detection and monitored video surveillance. A basic security system only helps after they lift out a window sash.

Back to the safe, the price has nothing to do with what you put inside. Its cost is based on how long you want it to survive an attempted breach or a raging fire.

On your insurance point, anything you could legally own can be insured against loss except large amounts of cash. Did your insurance agent say otherwise?




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Old 25 February 2020, 02:43 PM   #7
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My funny idea of security is that I don't actually keep valuables in the safe anymore. I put them in very random hard to find places that isn't really visible. I figured if the thief does somehow get past my practically impossible to bypass security system they'll waste a ton of time cutting into the safe to find nothing by then the cops should be rolling up. Most thieves I would imagine would go for the safe first as they'd assume the most valuable things in the house are in there.
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Old 25 February 2020, 02:45 PM   #8
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That is a scenario I’ve suggested to many.


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Old 25 February 2020, 09:17 PM   #9
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I’m going through a security overhaul myself. It’s quite the chore and I’ve grown to be mega paranoid about everything. I don’t think safe value ratio to jewelry value is a good rule to use. Any safe should be heavy, bolted, concealed, not easy to access, I like one of the ideas above of not having to much linear range for a crowbar. I think the concept of layered security is to make every layer either an “early warning” or a step that is difficult to get through. Unless it’s a highly engineered theft jobs, thieves don’t want to spend 2 hrs getting through all your layers of security. Most thefts are opportunistic, and when they are planned, they typically happen rapidly.

This is my best layer of security. A fully trained, police grade pure bread German Shepherd. He is the sweetest dog, cuddly and playful, loves leftovers and movie time.
Just don’t step into his territory unannounced. You will not make it out in one piece.




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Old 25 February 2020, 09:59 PM   #10
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You should watch some of the safe videos on YouTube and see that what the average person owns can be breached very quickly by professionals. If professionals are breaking in though, you have other levels of security mentioned. I am as concerned about fire protection as I am about theft. My safes are fire rated as the documents they hold can not be insured. Insurance is another part of security and an appropriate policy is part of comprehensive plan to protect yourself and your assets.
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Old 25 February 2020, 10:15 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by hcivic91 View Post
A good setup would consist of good deadbolts, security system, insurance and a safe. Not all that can be stored in a safe can be insured and thus I am struggling with how secure a safe should be part of the layered approach. How have you thought about this or s there a rule of thumb? For instance for $1k or valuables spend $100 on a safe. For $10k spend $1k and for $25k+ a $2500 safe? Any input is appreciated.
I have a safe.

I have insurance.

Everyone's situation is different
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Old 25 February 2020, 10:26 PM   #12
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I have 3 very nosey (but wonderful) retired neighbors. They provide all the security I need
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Old 26 February 2020, 12:54 AM   #13
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Hang an ISIS flag in your window and you’ll have DHS and FBI watching your house 24/7.
Hard to beat that kind of security.
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Old 26 February 2020, 01:09 AM   #14
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I have 3 very nosey (but wonderful) retired neighbors. They provide all the security I need
And the way to check your security at any time is to look at their homes and see if the curtains are ajar.

Yup, alarm is on.
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Old 26 February 2020, 01:14 AM   #15
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My problem with a safe is it's just another thing to deal with when you move.

As someone said everyone's situation is different. Some people have safe's for firearms and add documents and papers. Where I live, after the fires, some fire ratings worked and some didn't.

My theory is you have to decided what you have the safe for. If for papers, maybe a safety deposit box is better. If watches maybe a really really loud alarm system and a hiding place for the watches.

And insurance.
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Old 26 February 2020, 03:19 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Travelair007 View Post
I’m going through a security overhaul myself. It’s quite the chore and I’ve grown to be mega paranoid about everything. I don’t think safe value ratio to jewelry value is a good rule to use. Any safe should be heavy, bolted, concealed, not easy to access, I like one of the ideas above of not having to much linear range for a crowbar. I think the concept of layered security is to make every layer either an “early warning” or a step that is difficult to get through. Unless it’s a highly engineered theft jobs, thieves don’t want to spend 2 hrs getting through all your layers of security. Most thefts are opportunistic, and when they are planned, they typically happen rapidly.

This is my best layer of security. A fully trained, police grade pure bread German Shepherd. He is the sweetest dog, cuddly and playful, loves leftovers and movie time.
Just don’t step into his territory unannounced. You will not make it out in one piece.




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Fully agree with you here! I have a presa canerio. Weighs 60kg although maybe more I haven’t checked for a long time. Great with kids and everyone and everything but if someone shows aggression towards me it is goodnight.
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Old 26 February 2020, 03:52 AM   #17
Travelair007
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Fully agree with you here! I have a presa canerio. Weighs 60kg although maybe more I haven’t checked for a long time. Great with kids and everyone and everything but if someone shows aggression towards me it is goodnight.
That's a beautiful dog! and big!! my GS is only 42kg (93lbs) but he feels like 250lbs when he tackles me.
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Old 26 February 2020, 03:53 AM   #18
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......but if someone shows aggression towards me it is goodnight.
Damn, the wife has gotta be around here somewhere. She was a bit grumpy last night but.......
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Old 26 February 2020, 04:11 AM   #19
Travelair007
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Damn, the wife has gotta be around here somewhere. She was a bit grumpy last night but.......


My dog will take down anyone, except my wife. She trumps me...
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Old 26 February 2020, 04:54 AM   #20
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Old 26 February 2020, 05:02 AM   #21
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Hidden, bolted, good fire rating, dont go cheap...............
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Old 26 February 2020, 08:32 AM   #22
hcivic91
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Thanks for all the info. Some things to process as I think about my layers. Many locked in place and a few tweaks needed.
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Old 26 February 2020, 05:20 PM   #23
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Banks close offices all the time now, high-quality safes can be had cheap. I mean really cheap.

Mine was around 10K new (if not more) weight is about 2500lbs, fire protection and a core of steel that is burglar rated up to explosives. Has a high quality S&G combination lock which is tamper secured.

It's not pretty, It's a white box, so none of the cost of the safe got spent on decoration.

I bought it for 350. A professional safe moving company wanted 2K to move it for me, a friend of mine owns a trucking company, so amazing what a big truck with a lifting arm and a forklift can do for 200 bucks.
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