5513 Twinlock Crown Fitment

[Trog]

I'm at the final stage of restoring my s/n:1.8mil Submariner.

I managed to score a NOS Twinlock crown / tube set at my local AD. It was his last set, so you know I had to go for it...despite the crazy price!

While the watch was at the shop I figured I would also have it fully serviced.

Picked up the watch today and it didn't look right to me? To my eye, it appears the crown is not fully seated against the case like the Triplelock crown was.

The watchmaker stated it was sitting correctly due to the way the crown/tube is designed?

I can confirm the crown is tight, and the watch passes it's water tight tests.

Perhaps the vintage experts can chime in and sate my concerns.

[offrdmania]

It looks like that tube needs to go in a few millimeters more to me or maybe the tube is too long.

[Trog]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

It looks like that tube needs to go in a few millimeters more to me or maybe the tube is too long.

I found this Twinlock schematic on Bob'sWatches.com.

It looks like the crown has a 45-degree taper that would make it appear to stand proud of the case.

Sure would like to see an old 5513 with the original Twinlock to compare.

[Mrpupsi]

I’m no expert but that definitely doesn’t look right to me.

[GeoGio Greece]

For sure, its not correct.

The crown must end, close to the case.

Non of all the Subs I had, and they were many, were as this.

[lee fowler]

Doesn’t look quite right to me!

[btinl]

Your watchmaker can file down the tube.

[gunhose]

i think you bought the wrong tube and crown for the sub that your watch maker did not install the tube all the way in the case

[athom]

something's wrong

[ROGERB]

That pic of the crown unwound showing the tube looks extended to me? It should fit snugger to the case see this from the For Sale section here:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=553046

R

[Zz101]

Something’s definitely off. Just had my crown and tube replaced with a NOS from my watchmaker and no gap.

[ROGERB]

Ok THIS is just scary

https://www.walmart.com/ip/TWINLOCK-...PART/674219424

Yikes!
R

[Bladeshot]

Originally Posted by ROGERB

Ok THIS is just scary



https://www.walmart.com/ip/TWINLOCK-...PART/674219424



Yikes!

R

Holy moly!

[Trog]

Been researching various sources and have found what appears to be the best description of how the Rolex crown system provides a water tight seal:

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The red highlighted o-ring is what he mentioned - note how it gets compressed in the “screwed down” position. Even stopping one-half turn short of bottom would seal the crown.

If it bottomed out completely, you could have a failed o-ring.

As for the gap you are asking about - the green highlighted space is how the crown should stop slightly short of the case itself.

Now if that space is greater than the nominal gap (and I can’t really measure the photo) then perhaps an oversized o-ring was installed in the new crown.

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The NOS Twinlock crown/tube I sourced have been sitting around for 50-years. I suspect the O-rings may have become less compliant over time.

If the crown did indeed make contact with the case, it would suggest that the O-rings may be beyond their sealing capacity and replacement should be considered.

It has been suggested that my Crown will approach the case in time as the O-rings bed in.

Still, I'll plan to head into town next week for a second opinion.

[Trog]

Originally Posted by Zz101

Something’s definitely off. Just had my crown and tube replaced with a NOS from my watchmaker and no gap.

Did your watchmaker install a Twin of Triplelok? Can we get a photo of the crown end?

[Zz101]

Originally Posted by Trog

Did your watchmaker install a Twin of Triplelok? Can we get a photo of the crown end?

[Trog]

Originally Posted by Zz101

Thank you.....same exact make/model as mine.

I'll update the thread later in the week after I meet with another watchmaker.

[ROGERB]

Originally Posted by Trog

Thank you.....same exact make/model as mine.

I'll update the thread later in the week after I meet with another watchmaker.

Good luck Jack!

[Trog]

Update:

Just returned from DT Vancouver where I met with Norbert Zerbes, the proprietary of the German Watchmaker shop.

Norbert is extremely Rolex savvy, and not just when it comes to repairs, but he's an enthusiast and has quite the collection of vintage timepieces.

He was quite impressed with my Subs case, at first thinking it was NOS. He was less enthusiastic about 'laser-welding' as he comes from the camp of leave it be. But no matter.

When I pointed out the crown fitment, he was a bit mystified not knowing exactly what I was talking about. He then pulled out his 5513 Sub with its crown standing proud of the case!

It would appear that back in the '60's, Rolex was not renowned for quality control and crown fitment was all over the place!

Nothing can or should be done with my crown. He said I was lucky to have the original parts as they are scarce as hens teeth.

So that's it then...I'll just have to get used to it. (Or hunt down another tube and perhaps get lucky).

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I should also note that Norbert noticed some dust on my dial and quickly opened the case and cleaned her up.....it was worth the trip into the big city!

[offrdmania]

Hmmmm, I wonder if the back side can be filed down so that it can sit in the case a bit deeper?

[Trog]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Hmmmm, I wonder if the back side can be filed down so that it can sit in the case a bit deeper?

I'm sure with the appropriate lathe, the o-ring seating surface can be machined to offer 1/2mm of relief.....it would probably be easier just to source another crown. Alternately, the tube can me machined to remove material from its length, however thread engagement might be a challenge, and of course, the crown would no longer he facing upwards when tightened.

[ROGERB]

Well more info from another source is always great when dealing with our passion for these old timepieces. The part number I don’t believe has changed still 24-700 for a twin lock. And I get the NOS THING BUT if a current manifold gasket fits a vintage motor do we really care if it’s newer??
R


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Trog]

Originally Posted by ROGERB

Well more info from another source is always great when dealing with our passion for these old timepieces. The part number I don’t believe has changed still 24-700 for a twin lock. And I get the NOS THING BUT if a current manifold gasket fits a vintage motor do we really care if it’s newer??
R


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That would depend entirely on the car.

[uncleluck]

Did it come with a new washer? Maybe he left a washer in the case and fitted the new one too?

[swatty]

Originally Posted by uncleluck

Did it come with a new washer? Maybe he left a washer in the case and fitted the new one too?

This

[ROGERB]

Originally Posted by swatty

This

NOW THAT'S AN INTERESTING THEORY. In all the schematics they seem to show the extended thread section from the case fitting flush or at least closer than your pic with the crown open.

We also could be flogging a dead horse!
R

[Trog]

Originally Posted by uncleluck

Did it come with a new washer? Maybe he left a washer in the case and fitted the new one too?

Nope, everything measures to spec. Only one seal at the case.

The tolerance issue is at the Crown. No doubt the O-Ring has aged as it isn't nearly as compliant as a fresh one.

I've also noticed over the last week that with ongoing use, the crown has indeed moved closer to the case as the crown o-ring gets bedded in.

With hope, with ongoing use the crown will continue to settle-in as the O-ring compresses.

[phillip ridley]

From my own experience, I would almost bet it is the gasket inside the crown. If your AD replaces that gasket, it should fit properly.

With the age of these parts, the gasket tends to harden and prevent the crown from screwing on all the way. I have run into these issues on numerous occasions and after I replaced the gasket, it was as good as new.

Hopefully this helps...

[Trog]

Originally Posted by phillip ridley

From my own experience, I would almost bet it is the gasket inside the crown. If your AD replaces that gasket, it should fit properly.

With the age of these parts, the gasket tends to harden and prevent the crown from screwing on all the way. I have run into these issues on numerous occasions and after I replaced the gasket, it was as good as new.

Hopefully this helps...

That's my hypothesis as well. Hardened O-ring in the crown. As the watch is heading back next week for an oscillating wheel replacement (another story), I'll have him replace the crown gasket at that time.

[uncleluck]

Must admit I assumed the gasket was new (didn’t read your post further) not as old as the crown. Surely that should have been replaced as a matter of course. I’d replace all the gaskets if it were my little beauty, much safer!