Relumed PCG 1675 dial

[rootbeer7]

Interesting situation. I Don’t think these shenanigans are new at all. Social media has allowed instant cross-referencing in a way that allows us if inclined to get immediate information that 20 years ago may have seen a watch go through many sales and never be uncovered. I was told years ago about a specialist in the Uk that could recreate ancient lume.

[harry in montreal]

The art industry is always dealing with stolen property, touch ups and repairs. Hence the importance of provenance.

[SubKing]

I think we aren't going to get a response from MM at this point.

You would think, if it was a simple misunderstanding, MM would want to clear it up quick instead of letting it go on. Perhaps there just isn't anything that can be said?

The evidence is pretty strong as to what occurred.

As Swish pointed out, speculation is dangerous game, however I feel as information comes in, it's important that our small community talks about it. I think it would be wrong to not bring these kinds of things to light as they unfold. This conversation made me look a little closer at things myself and saw some inconsistencies I myself in the past overlooked.

I have also recently been informed that there is allegedly more than one watch involved which doesn't sound good.

Makes me worry just how many watches have passed through MM hands and just how many were effected? We may never know the full extent. I then thought to myself, If Stephane was a victim, why doesn't he speak out? Perhaps it's a "can of worms" scenario? Perhaps this could effect watches that have been sold in the past that came from MM sold by Stephane?

Again this is just speculation, but from what I also heard is that a former TRF member was behind the relume. Since it's speculation I don't want to mention his name. But I find it likely as I have found old threads here of MM inquiring about this former TRF member over a decade ago.

I also think it's ironic that many of the domestic issues with vintage over the years all seem to be located in CA.. The higher quality "issues with vintage" that is.

I think we all know MM has seen this thread and has chosen (like past members) not to respond to it. There is no positive way out to engage in this discussion in my opinion.

If this is another thread that goes on the books as not addressed by those involved, then I think we have our answer.

I think for myself, I have heard enough info from respected members within the watch community which is enough to make me stay away from these guys.

As for the info above, I have only shared it because it all came from someone close to the source. I feel it is a bit more reliable than just hearsay.

I am making my own personal conclusion that the person behind all of this has never been gone and has been quietly operating behind the scenes for some time filtering these watches into the market. This person is highly skilled and highly educated in vintage.

[CFR]

I've very interested in seeing what this relume job actually looks like, to further my education about this sort of thing. I'd love to see such convincing craftsmanship. As of a few days ago, all of the original images and listings referenced earlier in this thread appear to be gone/deleted. I also asked a few folks who posted here privately if they had links to any images of the dial, but I didn't have any luck (and thanks to those of you who were courteous to reply).

If anyone has images or links to images where I can see this dial (at least the "after" pics, if not "before" and "after"), can you please post them here or PM me? Thank you in advance!

[JParm]

Vintage is filled with treacherous waters.

Whatever happened with James Dowling, who was a beloved expert?

https://nypost.com/2016/07/17/billio...m-out-of-700k/

Now we have this with MM. At some point, it's either blind trust because these people are the "experts in the field", or it's a "simple mistake" at the cost of thousands of dollars.

No one's perfect, but it definitely hurts to see - whether it's true manipulation or just an accident that unknowingly happened.

[tommy.crown]

Originally Posted by SubKing

I think we aren't going to get a response from MM at this point.

You would think, if it was a simple misunderstanding, MM would want to clear it up quick instead of letting it go on. Perhaps there just isn't anything that can be said?

The evidence is pretty strong as to what occurred.

As Swish pointed out, speculation is dangerous game, however I feel as information comes in, it's important that our small community talks about it. I think it would be wrong to not bring wrong doings to light as they unfold. This conversation made me look a little closer at things myself and saw some inconsistencies I myself in the past overlooked.

I have also recently been informed that there is allegedly more than one watch involved and Stephane is returning multiple watches back to MM which doesn't sound good. I guess a watch or two has been recently pulled from Stephanes site.

Makes me worry just how many watches have passed through MM hands and just how many were effected? We may never know the full extent. I then thought to myself, If Stephane was a victim, why doesn't he speak out? Perhaps it's a "can of worms" scenario? Perhaps this could effect watches that have been sold in the past that came from MM sold by Stephane?

Again this is just speculation, but from what I also heard is that a former TRF member was behind the relume. Since it's speculation I don't want to mention his name. But I find it likely as I have found old threads here of MM inquiring about this former TRF member over a decade ago.

I also think it's ironic that many of the domestic issues with vintage over the years all seem to be located in CA.. The higher quality "issues with vintage" that is.

I think we all know MM has seen this thread and has chosen (like past members) not to respond to it. There is no positive way out to engage in this discussion in my opinion.

If this is another thread that goes on the books as not addressed by those involved, then I think we have our answer.

I think for myself, I have heard enough info from respected members within the watch community which is enough to make me stay away from these guys.

As for the info above, I have only shared it because it all came from someone close to the source. I feel it is a bit more reliable than just hearsay.

I am making my own personal conclusion that the person behind all of this has never been gone and has been quietly operating behind the scenes for some time.

Threads like this is what makes public and open forum discussions an invaluable resource for current, and future collectors.

Regarding the observations of CA-based watch dealers, I would stay clear and far away. There are a few good ones, but more horrible ones, bringing down the average and increasing the chances of getting a lemon. So who can we trust? That's a great question. One that can only be met with controversy. But if you've been reading this thread, and the others recently brought to the public light, then you would know who you cannot trust. There is a thriving enterprise for vintage and pre-owned watches; beautifying vintage pieces with cosmetic enhances, false and deliberately misleading descriptions, etc. Good luck to everyone if they choose to ignore these findings.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by CFR

I've very interested in seeing what this relume job actually looks like, to further my education about this sort of thing. I'd love to see such convincing craftsmanship. As of a few days ago, all of the original images and listings referenced earlier in this thread appear to be gone/deleted. I also asked a few folks who posted here privately if they had links to any images of the dial, but I didn't have any luck (and thanks to those of you who were courteous to reply).

If anyone has images or links to images where I can see this dial (at least the "after" pics, if not "before" and "after"), can you please post them here or PM me? Thank you in advance!

I have been asked to leave the serial of the watch shown so this watch can be tracked so there isn't another future victim. Rolex 1675 serial 503480.
There is dial damage on the chapter ring between 12 and 1 that you can see is very similar if not the same. Before and after shots of the relume.
Esp since it came from the same dealer, too much of a coincidence if you ask me.

So much convo in this thread and no photo's. Hopefully this will do the thread some justice. These are not my photo's, they were just provided to me to share here.
So don't shoot the messenger...

[CFR]

Originally Posted by SubKing

.... So much convo in this thread and no photo's. Hopefully this will do the thread some justice. These are not my photo's, they were just provided to me to share here. So don't shoot the messenger...

Thanks very much for sharing these. You and other folks have seen many more of these vintage dials than I have. When I look at the "after" pics you posted, my initial reaction is that the relumed dial looks too perfect. I see no variation/blemishes at all across the lume plots -- not the slightest blemish, discoloration, variation, or imperfection in the lume after 60 years.

Have folks seen other Rolex watches from this era (early 60's 1675 PCG pieces, etc.) with original lume that's so perfectly even-looking? I'm wondering if a (re)lume job like this would arouse the suspicions of a highly trained eye before that highly trained eye knew it was relumed, or if there's literally nothing suspicious about the "after" pics. [And I know from earlier in this thread that the buyer was a highly trained eye, but of course he's just one person.]

As an aside, by way of comparison, I'd love to see what a NOS/NIB 1675 PCG watch would look like, after 60 years, if it had literally never been worn. I'll probably never see that, though!

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by CFR

Thanks very much for sharing these. You and other folks have seen many more of these vintage dials than I have. When I look at the "after" pics you posted, my initial reaction is that the relumed dial looks too perfect. I see no variation/blemishes at all across the lume plots -- not the slightest blemish, discoloration, variation, or imperfection in the lume after 60 years.

Have folks seen other Rolex watches from this era (early 60's 1675 PCG pieces, etc.) with original lume that's so perfectly even-looking? I'm wondering if a (re)lume job like this would arouse the suspicions of a highly trained eye before that highly trained eye knew it was relumed, or if there's literally nothing suspicious about the "after" pics.

As an aside, by way of comparison, I'd love to see what a NOS/NIB 1675 PCG watch would look like, after 60 years, if it had literally never been worn. I'll probably never see that, though!

A picture is worth a thousands words. But for me to personally be 100% sure, I have to see the watch in person to be able to make that judgement. On the other hand, if the watch is being sold by a respected dealer and it's a watch I want, I probably wouldn't think twice about purchasing. Once I have the watch in hand, if I see these consistencies, it may raise a red flag. But then again, all lume ages differently depending on it's environments. tritium/radium. I have seen consistent dials in the past.

It's a combination of dealer trust, education on vintage and gut feeling when you deal with a relume job like this.

If it passes normal tests that collectors and dealers usually use, what else is left to go on?

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com

Vintage is filled with treacherous waters.

Whatever happened with James Dowling, who was a beloved expert?

https://nypost.com/2016/07/17/billio...m-out-of-700k/

Billionaire but he has a net worth of 300-400 million (because of the sale of his company). Good title and start.

Plus, the reasons ''fake OR overpriced''. How can you complain about something being overpriced.

http://www.onthedash.com/docs/Bikoff_v_Dowling.pdf

1. This action arises out of intentional and fraudulent misrepresentations made by
Dowling, a watch dealer known in the trade, to Bikoff regarding the purchase of certain watches
from Pastime, Dowling’s United Kingdom entity engaged in the resale of rare and collectible
watches.
Case 1:16-cv-05478-LTS Document 1 Filed 07/08/16 Page 1 of 14
2

2. In particular, with respect to at least two watches Pastime sold to Bikoff, Dowling
made misrepresentations regarding the watches’ value, provenance, and authenticity which
Dowling knew to be false at the time he made them.

3. With respect to three other watches Pastime sold to Bikoff, Dowling made
misrepresentations about the value of the watches, based on his extensive experience in the trade,
which he knew to be grossly inflated at the time he made the misrepresentations and at the time
of the sale.

4. Dowling has refused to provide a full refund and to make Bikoff whole with
respect to the five watches.

5. Further, Bikoff has reason to believe that Defendants are engaged in a broader
scheme to defraud purchasers of rare and collectible watches.

6. Plaintiff is entitled to damages and punitive damages because of Defendants’
fraudulent conduct and refusals to make Plaintiff whole

Read the PDF please. This is how rumours start. The buyer paid way too much because he didn't do his homework. He bought an IWC Bund for 50k. Who is stupid?

The Miami watch dealer valued each of the IWC Bund Watch, the Rolex Ludion
Watch, and the Tudor Shayetet Watch at significantly less than the amounts paid by Bikoff to
Dowling.
47. The Miami watch dealer valued the IWC Bund Watch at $15,000, compared to
the £49,500 (approximately $77,000 as of the date of the sale, and approximately $72,000 at
present) paid by Bikoff to Dowling.

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Billionaire but he has a net worth of 300-400 million (because of the sale of his company). Good title and start.

Plus, the reasons ''fake OR overpriced''. How can you complain about something being overpriced.

http://www.onthedash.com/docs/Bikoff_v_Dowling.pdf




Read the PDF please. This is how rumours start. The buyer paid way too much because he didn't do his homework. He bought an IWC Bund for 50k. Who is stupid?

the 6538 for 94k and tektite for $395k would bring 1.5-2m i'd imagine if they were all original and in decent shape. I'd assume there's a Dowling premium buying a watch from him. Just the price you pay knowing your getting a premium/rare piece.

[Jim M]

Case was dismissed.

Might be a good policy to check things of this nature out before one posts a query.

https://www.casemine.com/judgement/u...09d33ea97b7175

Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com

Vintage is filled with treacherous waters.

Whatever happened with James Dowling, who was a beloved expert?

https://nypost.com/2016/07/17/billio...m-out-of-700k/

Now we have this with MM. At some point, it's either blind trust because these people are the "experts in the field", or it's a "simple mistake" at the cost of thousands of dollars.

No one's perfect, but it definitely hurts to see - whether it's true manipulation or just an accident that unknowingly happened.

[1watch]

Originally Posted by tommy.crown

Threads like this is what makes public and open forum discussions an invaluable resource for current, and future collectors.

Regarding the observations of CA-based watch dealers, I would stay clear and far away. There are a few good ones, but more horrible ones, bringing down the average and increasing the chances of getting a lemon. So who can we trust? That's a great question. One that can only be met with controversy. But if you've been reading this thread, and the others recently brought to the public light, then you would know who you cannot trust. There is a thriving enterprise for vintage and pre-owned watches; beautifying vintage pieces with cosmetic enhances, false and deliberately misleading descriptions, etc. Good luck to everyone if they choose to ignore these findings.

I don't think it means all watches sold in CA are bad and you have to stay away from the entire state. It means you really need to do your homework and vet potential deals with other knowledgeable collectors. You should also ensure you can inspect the piece in hand yourself with a trusted and qualified 3rd party during a usual and customary inspection period.

[roh123]

How often does people know where watches came from further than the seller? Most pieces offered have been on the market before and watches often change hands behind the scenes dealer to dealer as in this specific case. Dealers don’t ”find” all the watches they sell.

[1watch]

I agree with the point made above as it relates to purchases in general. In this thread's case, there seems to be a lot of inconsistencies stated about who knew what and when that has not been made clear to many interested in a conclusion.

Related to vintage in general, some dealers may move a higher percentage of "top collector quality" than others. How they acquire stock is not always clear, since these pieces may have changed hands many times from original owners, collectors and dealers and provenance isn't always available. Original owners also may have had repair work done on a piece where original parts were replaced with more recent service parts (inserts, hands, etc.), even though the piece didn't change ownership. Only buying from collectors is also no guarantee, if you don't know how they acquired or if they didn't conduct a thorough evaluation at time of purchase.

I subscribe to the view that each watch has to stand on it's own merit and be evaluated as such. One may also choose to just buy from those they feel warrant a high level of trust and stick with them. Either way, it doesn't mean you should take a pass from doing your own assessment and homework, so you are at peace with what you are getting at a price paid that works for you.

[Tavli3]

Originally Posted by roh123

How often does people know where watches came from further than the seller? Most pieces offered have been on the market before and watches often change hands behind the scenes dealer to dealer as in this specific case. Dealers don’t ”find” all the watches they sell.

After rereading the entire thread watchknut’s post #34 is the key. He states that when Stephane was question about the dial being Re lumed Stephane stated it was a different dial. Clearly false and fraudulent statement trying to cover his misdeed as watchknut points its the exact same dial.

Based on that There’s no doubt in my mind as a buyer that Stephane’s name is mud in my book. As far as MM is concerned what took place between those two is for them to sort out. I reserve judgement on MM until proof comes out he deliberately scammed Stephane. But it seems clear to me that Stephane should have known and did know what he was buying and resold the watch without full disclosure. Cardinal sin in this business end of story. MM not responding has him going from one black eye to two even though there’s only circumstantial evidence in his involvement in the fraudulent sale to the buyer. Would be nice to hear another side of the story.

Best to avoid both for now to be safe.


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[roh123]

Originally Posted by Tavli3

After rereading the entire thread watchknut’s post #34 is the key. He states that when Stephane was question about the dial being Re lumed Stephane stated it was a different dial. Clearly false and fraudulent statement trying to cover his misdeed as watchknut points its the exact same dial.

Based on that There’s no doubt in my mind as a buyer that Stephane’s name is mud in my book. As far as MM is concerned what took place between those two is for them to sort out. I reserve judgement on MM until proof comes out he deliberately scammed Stephane. But it seems clear to me that Stephane should have known and did know what he was buying and resold the watch without full disclosure. Cardinal sin in this business end of story. MM not responding has him going from one black eye to two even though there’s only circumstantial evidence in his involvement in the fraudulent sale to the buyer. Would be nice to hear another side of the story.

Best to avoid both for now to be safe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My reply was more to the one saying to stay away fron CA watches and dealers. Watches move a lot and you rarely have any idea where they came from unless you can track them like watchknut did this time.

[Tavli3]

Understood. Fortunately for the buyer watchknut sniffed this one out. The scary part is that one of us may not be so fortunate in the future. Buy the seller Buy the seller is all I read as a newbie here not too long ago. These guys are The Sellers and look at the shit show they produced.

So it’s disturbing to a non expert such as myself who is interested in these types of pieces that I now don’t know who to trust. So I would think 3-4 times as opposed to once or twice before buying any piece.

As PR stated this type of stuff certainly diminishes ones enthusiasm for the hobby. As much as I love this hobby I love my hard earned dollars more!!


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[Tavli3]

Moral of the story is the time and dedication needed for this hobby has just gone way up. You now have to determine what piece you want and put the time in to become your own expert in that piece!! Otherwise it’s best of luck.


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[roh123]

Originally Posted by Tavli3

Understood. Fortunately for the buyer watchknut sniffed this one out. The scary part is that one of us may not be so fortunate in the future. Buy the seller Buy the seller is all I read as a newbie here not too long ago. These guys are The Sellers and look at the shit show they produced.

So it’s disturbing to a non expert such as myself who is interested in these types of pieces that I now don’t know who to trust. So I would think 3-4 times as opposed to once or twice before buying any piece.

As PR stated this type of stuff certainly diminishes ones enthusiasm for the hobby. As much as I love this hobby I love my hard earned dollars more!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Buy the seller only helps in the case when a good seller has a good watch. Once a bad watch like this one trades hands a new chapter begins if not the history is communicated to the new owner. That is the scary part. This is nothing new even if many didn’t know. As long as there’s big money to be made some opportunists will always try to benefit.

Building your own knowledge is paramount. Having even more knowledgable friends helps. In the end it’s all about the watch. Regardless where it comes from. There’s no easy way unless you can source your watches directly from the original owners and hear their stories. Even then you don’t really have an idea what happened throughout the watch 40-50-60 years lifespan.

It’s not supposed to be easy. Still stories like this hurt the hobby and makes you sad. Hopefully we learn and those that cheat others see that every once in a while reality catches up and makes you look stupid and dishonest. Something that may scare the next cheater away from doing bad things.

Put on another pretty insert on this 1675, tuck it away for a while and then sell it to someone else to deal and no one will ever know where this piece ends up. It will never be sold cheap with that awesome relume disclosed. It will just dissapear to some unknowing buyer in the end.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by roh123

Buy the seller only helps in the case when a good seller has a good watch. Once a bad watch like this one trades hands a new chapter begins if not the history is communicated to the new owner.

I am more cynical that you, and I suspect that dealers often pass questionable watches around so that they can deliberately obscure the watch's past, with full knowledge of both parties. That's what I mean by "laundering" the watch.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I am more cynical that you, and I suspect that dealers often pass questionable watches around so that they can deliberately obscure the watch's past, with full knowledge of both parties. That's what I mean by "laundering" the watch.

Sure. But once the ”bad” watch is sold to someone unknowing it is good again. Don’t you agree?

Maybe we can save someone in the future by making this watch searchable on the internet. Serial is posted on the papers above. Rolex GMT-Master ref 1675 serial 503480.

[judson]

I agree with CFR, I keep thinking about a vintage Rolex, but the market scares me. These watches are too much money to chance being the guy that ends up with a laundered watch, either intentionally or unintentionally by the seller.

I live in a small town and travel to Atlanta once a year to go on a watch shopping trip. I don't get to handle enough vintage Rolex to feel comfortable spending that much without assurances.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by roh123

Sure. But once the ”bad” watch is sold to someone unknowing it is good again. Don’t you agree?

Yes, no doubt. Hence the plethora of 50 year-old watches in pristine original condition on IG.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Yes, no doubt. Hence the plethora of 50 year-old watches in pristine original condition on IG.

Personally I don’t think that many are touched up like this one. A more common issue is put-together pieces. I don’t think relumed dials like this happens often. This was just a perfect candidate as the dial was already poorly redone to begin with. Very rare version with a nice case and box and papers made it hard to resist the effort.

The only lesson here is to be aware. Dangerous to start doubting everything. One must just not be naive.

[1watch]

I think more common are swapped dials and hands. Taking a strong case with average or poor dial, source a better quality dial and/or hands is probably done more than many would want to know. Very hard to determine if done when correct dial type is matched to case SN and hands are also correct to the era. In those instances, I don't think it's a big issue or has a meaningful impact on the value.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by 1watch

I think more common are swapped dials and hands. Taking a strong case with average or poor dial, source a better quality dial and/or hands is probably done more than many would want to know. Very hard to determine if done when correct dial type is matched to case SN and hands are also correct to the era. In those instances, I don't think it's a big issue or has a meaningful impact on the value.

As long as everything is period correct, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a watch in which the dealer put in a NICER, AND CORRECT dial.

[Tavli3]

I would not have a problem with a nicer original untouched watch correct dial. It would be impossible to tell anyway.


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[Forstephan]

Dear Members,

My name is Stephane Medam. Please forgive my tardiness to this thread as I was just made aware of this discussion yesterday evening. I am not an active member here but I would like to make a statement about this circumstance. There is much debate as to what actually transpired with this 1675. I am here to speak for myself and myself alone. I cannot speak for Michael Morgan.

I’ve been collecting for many years and I pride myself of owning every watch I sell. This is an important part of my business, because I would never personally sell a watch that I didn’t personally own first. I firmly believe in quality over quantity.

I took receipt of this watch from Michael Morgan approximately 2 weeks ago. I thoroughly inspected the watch, as I have done with all my watches over the years. Looping, examining, UV testing and taking geiger readings from the watch are standard practices. This specific watch came from a trusted dealer, whom I have done business with in the past, like many others have. I saw no issues with this piece based on my years of experience in handling these types of watches.

It was pointed out to me by an instagram user who knew the original owner of this timepiece and had informed me the watch was relumed. Once I was able to see photos of the original state of the watch, I immediately called FedEx and had them stop the shipment and revert it back to me. I should be collecting the watch tomorrow as it is currently stuck at the FedEx station. The buyer never received the watch. I stopped this sale and refunded my client right away. I spoke to Michael and of course informed him the watch will be returned to him. I never had a chance to make a formal statement because the original discussion was removed off of instagram by the OP. In all my years of collecting and selling watches, I have to say I have never seen a relume job like this one. It’s of course a very delicate hobby we have. Out of thousands of transactions over the years, it only takes one to hurt someone’s reputation. I want the members here to know I am happy someone brought this to my attention because I wouldn’t want this to happen to anyone. This has been an eye opening experience. It shows many of us, no matter how long you have been doing something, there is always someone out there that can replicate something to the next level that fools even the most discerning collectors and dealers.

I don’t sell watches behind the scenes. Everything I own and sell is viewable on my website. I always try to be as transparent as possible with every transaction I make. Word of mouth is everything to me. I stand 100% behind every watch I sell, no questions asked. I truly hope everyone knows this was a sincere mistake that I take responsibility for. When the watch is returned, I am interested to study it a bit further just to see what information I can gather and share with our community to help prevent these types of relumed watches from being circulated into our collecting society.

I am truly grateful for the relationships I have formed over the years of collecting and for the knowledge I continue to gain.

Sincerely,
Stephane M.
Wordlywatches

[Forstephan]

Dear Members,

My name is Stephane Medam. Please forgive my tardiness to this thread as I was just made aware of this discussion yesterday evening. I am not an active member here but I would like to make a statement about this circumstance. There is much debate as to what actually transpired with this 1675. I am here to speak for myself and myself alone. I cannot speak for Michael Morgan.

I’ve been collecting for many years and I pride myself of owning every watch I sell. This is an important part of my business, because I would never personally sell a watch that I didn’t personally own first. I firmly believe in quality over quantity.

I took receipt of this watch from Michael Morgan approximately 2 weeks ago. I thoroughly inspected the watch, as I have done with all my watches over the years. Looping, examining, UV testing and taking geiger readings from the watch are standard practices. This specific watch came from a trusted dealer, whom I have done business with in the past, like many others have. I saw no issues with this piece based on my years of experience in handling these types of watches.

It was pointed out to me by an instagram user who knew the original owner of this timepiece and had informed me the watch was relumed. Once I was able to see photos of the original state of the watch, I immediately called FedEx and had them stop the shipment and revert it back to me. I should be collecting the watch tomorrow as it is currently stuck at the FedEx station. The buyer never received the watch. I stopped this sale and refunded my client right away. I spoke to Michael and of course informed him the watch will be returned to him. I never had a chance to make a formal statement because the original discussion was removed off of instagram by the OP. In all my years of collecting and selling watches, I have to say I have never seen a relume job like this one. It’s of course a very delicate hobby we have. Out of thousands of transactions over the years, it only takes one to hurt someone’s reputation. I want the members here to know I am happy someone brought this to my attention because I wouldn’t want this to happen to anyone. This has been an eye opening experience. It shows many of us, no matter how long you have been doing something, there is always someone out there that can replicate something to the next level that fools even the most discerning collectors and dealers.

I don’t sell watches behind the scenes. Everything I own and sell is viewable on my website. I always try to be as transparent as possible with every transaction I make. Word of mouth is everything to me. I stand 100% behind every watch I sell, no questions asked. I truly hope everyone knows this was a sincere mistake that I take responsibility for. When the watch is returned, I am interested to study it a bit further just to see what information I can gather and share with our community to help prevent these types of relumed watches from being circulated into our collecting society.

I am truly grateful for the relationships I have formed over the years of collecting and for the knowledge I continue to gain.

Sincerely,
Stephane M.
Worldlywatches