White gold vs yellow gold

[RoscoPico]

Originally Posted by startrolexendrolex

Why white gold rolex cost so much more then yellow gold. Comparing yellow gold daytona 36k vs 39k for white gold. Why?

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

that must be msrp only. wg typically trends lower than yg grey so i guess i guess it takes an even bigger hit

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by georgekart

To add to that I don't think it's a Rolex exclusive thing. Same as most gold jewelry is 10,12,14 or 18k (or in sometimes marked as 417/500/583/750 or even both markings), most platinum jewelry is 950. And PM watches usually use common jewelry alloys.

This is correct.

However most common for a PT950 alloy is 95% platinum and 5% iridium.

[Freespeach]

Love it when post apocalyptic watch values are discussed. Not sure that one would see many apes wanting to wear a watch. Size would be an issue..."damn you, damn you all to hell". :)

[Gmt+10]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Ok I see. Thanks. They can’t use 24 karat gold to make these things. You could sneeze and dent it.

Dents and bends easily. I have a 23k necklace that I could bend with my fingers.

[georgekart]

Originally Posted by SearChart

This is correct.

However most common for a PT950 alloy is 95% platinum and 5% iridium.

Ah, I see. That's interesting. Both iridium and ruthenium are from platinum group metals. Interesting to know why Rolex went ruthenium over iridium. Perhaps it is more hypoallergenic? Or some other advantage maybe.

[thenewrick]

I was shooting from the hip on platinum percentage. But point is it's generally much more solid platinum and ruthenium and palladium are both in the same family as platinum and precious themselves and look the same. You're not having to color your alloy with copper to make it look like yellow gold.

Often watchmakers and jewelers will shoot for as close to pure platinum as possible and mark it as such. I really like this Omega LE for example:





This is 95% platinum as well.

I do like solid gold watches in general. I just think it's very misleading what you're getting and that platinum is generally a more pure and honest PM in jewelry.

Like when you wear a solid gold watch you're wearing 25% junk metal, it's going to be like 5% lighter than a true solid 24k gold watch and it has to be chemically broken down and turned back into real gold. It's a gold-colored alloy in honesty.

When you wear a platinum watch you're getting 95% platinum and 5% additional precious metal. It weighs about 20% more than a solid 18k YG Rolex and it doesn't generally need to be broken down chemically for it's street precious metal value. You're touching actual platinum and platinum family metals at all time, not copper and nickel and other stuff.

*Some watchmakers will make 22ish karat rotors because they aren't in danger of being bent or scratched and weigh a lot so they're effective as weights.

[Calatrava r]

The price of WG or RG is higher than yellow gold is because that is what the watch companies have always done and because they can. Platinum is even higher. Interestingly, I heard Patek with their new price increase on 10/1 equalized the price of all the gold colors. Perhaps more companies will do this, but it means a much larger increase on the yellow gold models if everything goes up as with Patek.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

I was shooting from the hip on platinum percentage. But point is it's generally much more solid platinum and ruthenium and palladium are both in the same family as platinum and precious themselves and look the same. You're not having to color your alloy with copper to make it look like yellow gold.

Often watchmakers and jewelers will shoot for as close to pure platinum as possible and mark it as such. I really like this Omega LE for example:





This is 95% platinum as well.

I do like solid gold watches in general. I just think it's very misleading what you're getting and that platinum is generally a more pure and honest PM in jewelry.

Like when you wear a solid gold watch you're wearing 25% junk metal, it's going to be like 5% lighter than a true solid 24k gold watch and it has to be chemically broken down and turned back into real gold. It's a gold-colored alloy in honesty.

When you wear a platinum watch you're getting 95% platinum and 5% additional precious metal. It weighs about 20% more than a solid 18k YG Rolex and it doesn't generally need to be broken down chemically for it's street precious metal value. You're touching actual platinum and platinum family metals at all time, not copper and nickel and other stuff.

*Some watchmakers will make 22ish karat rotors because they aren't in danger of being bent or scratched and weigh a lot so they're effective as weights.

One can argue that a stainless steel watch is 100% junk metal, as the value of the steel is likely only a few dollars. So please don't be ignorant and denigrate one type of metal over another. These are luxury items nobody needs and value of metal used in the watch has nothing to do with pricing. Do you think there is 50K USD worth of leather in a Hermes Birkin handbag?

[thenewrick]

I think the honest way to look at it is that when you buy a gold watch you're buying the appearance/craftsmanship/exclusivity/weight but you're not actually buying gold. Owning a solid gold Rolex doesn't mean you own gold, really. It's like saying I have own gold because my iPhone has gold components or my old car had platinum family metals in its catalytic converter.

Once you get over that idea and just enjoy it for the color and weight it's an enlightenment.

If you want the feeling of owning actual precious metal with actual value, buy a 1oz certified gold bar for $2,000 and keep it in your safe and just enjoy that as its own thing. As an aside, the Rolex papers don't really mean much, but the papers/hallmark on your gold bar are essential to its resale value. You don't want to get raw gold because it would need to be verified to have value and you'd lose big on that process and it would be very difficult to sell.

So Rolex: no box papers okay; gold bars: box and papers required! :D

[thenewrick]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

One can argue that a stainless steel watch is 100% junk metal, as the value of the steel is likely only a few dollars. So please don't be ignorant and denigrate one type of metal over another. These are luxury items nobody needs and value of metal used in the watch has nothing to do with pricing. Do you think there is 50K USD worth of leather in a Hermes Birkin handbag?

I'm not trying to hate on gold Rolexes I just think it's misleading how it's marketed, and not by Rolex just in the jewelry business.

I'm all about a TT YG Datejust champagne dial and most people probably think the dial is made of gold there.

It's a similar argument for people who wear Rolex homage watches that are made with high quality components. It may look and feel like a Rolex, and you can enjoy it, and that's totally up to the individual; but it's not a Rolex. Just like when someone says I have a solid gold watch. Well, really you have a gold toned alloy watch where you can't actually sell it as gold, or feel the pure gold. But if you enjoy it, that's what matters.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

I'm not trying to hate on gold Rolexes I just think it's misleading how it's marketed, and not by Rolex just in the jewelry business.

I'm all about a TT YG Datejust champagne dial and most people probably think the dial is made of gold there.

It's a similar argument for people who wear Rolex homage watches that are made with high quality components. It may look and feel like a Rolex, and you can enjoy it, and that's totally up to the individual; but it's not a Rolex. Just like when someone says I have a solid gold watch. Well, really you have a gold toned alloy watch where you can't actually sell it as gold, or feel the pure gold. But if you enjoy it, that's what matters.

For the price of a PM Rolex, you had better enjoy it!

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

For the price of a PM Rolex, you had better enjoy it!

No doubt brother. No doubt.

[thenewrick]

I think a YG day-date with champagne dial is pretty much the essential luxury watch. Would definitely like to own one some day.

But because I'm very budget restrained, and because my collection as of this time is 1 Tissot, I have to be careful with my choices.

At this point if I were buying a PM watch it would probably be a YG JLC or Omega on a strap for about $10k used and that would be my affordable dress watch.





If I had expanded financial opportunities (cashomundo), I'd be looking at a used DD 40 white gold olive dial roman, or meteorite dial diamond indices for about $36k-$40k. Super classy, under the radar, nice heft and personal satisfaction without having to show off:

[Broke_Rolex_Guy]

White gold obviously goes well with more things than yellow gold. However, when yellow gold does fit into the environment or the outfit you're wearing, it has that nice presence that white gold or silver stainless steel/titanium can't match.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Broke_Rolex_Guy

White gold obviously goes well with more things than yellow gold. However, when yellow gold does fit into the environment or the outfit you're wearing, it has that nice presence that white gold or silver stainless steel/titanium can't match.

One little challenge is that white gold, platinum and stainless steel all look the same.

[thenewrick]

Originally Posted by Patton250

One little challenge is that white gold, platinum and stainless steel all look the same.

It depends who makes and crafts the gold and the piece. But generally steel is just shiny silver, white gold has a hint of yellow and a warmth to its shine that's less mirrorlike, and platinum has a more dull grey/black polish vibe to it. And the weight on the wrist makes a huge difference for its wearer.

I tried on a solid platinum DD and it feels very baller on the wrist.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

It depends who makes and crafts the gold and the piece. But generally steel is just shiny silver, white gold has a hint of yellow and a warmth to its shine that's less mirrorlike, and platinum has a more dull grey/black polish vibe to it. And the weight on the wrist makes a huge difference for its wearer.

I tried on a solid platinum DD and it feels very baller on the wrist.

All that is very true but from 5 feet away they all look the same. IMHO

[Flybak]

I think @thenewrick is focused on the idea of buying a gold watch as though the gold is a key reason for its value. It is not the reason unless you are totally unaware of how gold is priced vs. the luxury product made of gold that you are buying. Wanna buy gold for its value? Go buy bullion. Exactly the same with platinum - buy platinum bullion. Otherwise, take a look at the price of a platinum Daytona, compare it to a gold Daytona, and then take a look at the price per ounce of each of those metals and decide which of these have you "overpaid" for, regardless of the higher density of platinum giving the platinum Daytona a heavier weight If you decide to sell that platinum Daytona for an "apocalypse" scenario, it's much, much fewer pennies on the dollar than the gold Daytona...and I LOVE both Platinum and Gold Daytonas Basically, no precious metal Rolex is worth it's price from a metal standpoint, like most luxury goods. We are paying a massive premium for other reasons.

That being said, the idea that if it's not 24k, it's not gold but plated gold is funny when it comes to jewelry. Most are aware of gold in jewelry being identified by its degree of purity (ie. 14K, 18K 21K, etc. Same as with 950 Platinum). There's no conspiracy or deception or lies about this. They are all consistently blended throughout with their alloys, both gold, and platinum. They cannot use 24k for jewelry of obvious reasons mentioned elsewhere in the thread. When a metal is 75% one element like gold, it's alloyed with other stuff (the other stuff would be the alloys - it's the minority component that is made of different elements). So pure gold is alloyed to the other stuff in a ratio of 75/25 and you find this consistently in any chunk of metal you carve out of a piece of 18k gold jewelry. Plated gold is a layer of gold covering other stuff that when scratched off exposes the other stuff. Big difference between the two


Back to the OP's original question - I honestly wonder if the alloys are worth more in WG/RG vs. YG or if it's that YG is less in style than WG or RG. The prices for both of the latter are the same for the same Rolex model. Basically, I have no idea why but it's a good question

[thenewrick]

Originally Posted by Patton250

All that is very true but from 5 feet away they all look the same. IMHO

That's either the appeal or unappealing nature of it.

It's just like wearing a ALS or Patek and it looks like a $50 fashion watch. Then you see the display case back and see it's a $50k art piece.

Nobody will ever see your display case back, just like most will never notice what watch you're wearing. Generally if its YG they will assume it's gold plating unless you're in a luxury setting.

Always about buying what you like.

Generally the less showy and most individually satisfying a watch is, the more I like it.

While we're on the subject of precious metal watches... This is my guilty pleasure and the watch I aspired to buy one day..





It's got a friggin piece of the moon in its display case back!

*Go Noles.

[startrolexendrolex]

Originally Posted by AshCashEmAll

During the production of all their white gold or rose gold models they actually mix the yellow gold with other metals which gives them a true color. Most white or rose gold jewelry purchased in the jewelry districts are just white gold plated or rose gold plated over yellow gold. The reason for the premium on white gold or rose gold from Rolex is the extra labor and cost in order to mix various metals to create the distinct grey gold or ever rose color that will never tarnish and turn yellow.

Great explanation.

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[Patton250]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

That's either the appeal or unappealing nature of it.

It's just like wearing a ALS or Patek and it looks like a $50 fashion watch. Then you see the display case back and see it's a $50k art piece.

Nobody will ever see your display case back, just like most will never notice what watch you're wearing. Generally if its YG they will assume it's gold plating unless you're in a luxury setting.

Always about buying what you like.

Generally the less showy and most individually satisfying a watch is, the more I like it.

While we're on the subject of precious metal watches... This is my guilty pleasure and the watch I aspired to buy one day..





It's got a friggin piece of the moon in its display case back!

*Go Noles.

That is sick!!!! I love it.

[Flybak]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

That's either the appeal or unappealing nature of it.

It's just like wearing a ALS or Patek and it looks like a $50 fashion watch. Then you see the display case back and see it's a $50k art piece.

Nobody will ever see your display case back, just like most will never notice what watch you're wearing. Generally if its YG they will assume it's gold plating unless you're in a luxury setting.

Always about buying what you like.

Generally the less showy and most individually satisfying a watch is, the more I like it.

While we're on the subject of precious metal watches... This is my guilty pleasure and the watch I aspired to buy one day..





It's got a friggin piece of the moon in its display case back!

*Go Noles.

This is a beauty - hope you get it, and you will not care if anyone else thinks it's gold plated. In fact, you'll probably enjoy your little secret

[Fleegle]

Originally Posted by startrolexendrolex

Why?

One reason, possibly the main reason iro the full gold Daytonas, is that the WG case is bigger than the YG.

Compare the case around the 2 and 4 o'clock pushers and also the righthand lugs. The YG is much slimmer on the righthand side - apparently this is to achieve a better left-right balance when taking the crown & pushers into account.

This design difference isn't replicated with the Oysterflex versions.

[bp1000]

I’m confused why we haven’t established that WG uses a mix with palladium, around 10-12%.

It keeps the colour stable and is something like 20-30x rarer than gold. Reflected in the price

[thenewrick]

Originally Posted by bp1000

I’m confused why we haven’t established that WG uses a mix with palladium, around 10-12%.

It keeps the colour stable and is something like 20-30x rarer than gold. Reflected in the price

2nd reply to the thread my dude, "White gold contains palladium which is more expensive than 18k yellow gold and it may be a lower volume of material that they make."

But it's not just purely the cost of the metal. There's all kinds of factors like exclusivity, difficulty making the alloy, limited amount of the alloy they're making, the process of transporting the materials to different production areas. It all adds up.

I feel like if we were omniscient and could see what it costs Rolex to make these things and the margins they're making on them we'd be shocked.

It might only cost them $3000 more to make a YG Daytona rather than a steel and they'd mark it up $26k and we'd be none the wiser. Which really comes back to the argument that you're not paying for the metal you're paying for the art and there isn't a commodities market for art really. The more you try and justify the value of the ore/metal in your watch purchase price the more it'll make you crazy.

[Kirsty87]

Maybe a stupid question...but how can Rolex create a WHITE gold that doesn't change colour over the years, when 75% of the base is YELLOW gold? Sounds like a difficult task to achieve.

[thenewrick]

Traditionally, white gold is yellow gold with a rhodium coating which is strong and white colored. It fades over time and can be scratched revealing the yellow gold underneath.

Rolex makes its own white gold by mixing pure yellow gold and white colored metals like Palladium. Their secret recipe is secret so we can mostly speculate on what the 25% non gold metals are.

This results in a solid white metal with no coating. So if scratched or polished more white metal is revealed beneath and it will never lose its original white gold appearance.

[bp1000]

Originally Posted by thenewrick

2nd reply to the thread my dude, "White gold contains palladium which is more expensive than 18k yellow gold and it may be a lower volume of material that they make."
.

I should really pay more attention! Thanks

I just saw a lot of discussion after that didn’t address that.

I agree on pricing, the markup is massive considering materials

[Robf52]

I understand that effective Oct 1 Patek Philippe is raising prices of their yellow gold watches to the level of their rose gold and white gold. Just as Rolex prices their YG pieces, YG has historically been priced less expensive. Reportedly, this will mean about an 8% increase in PP YG pieces. For someone already owning a PP YG piece this is good news. The next question is whether Rolex will follow suit.

[thenewrick]

Originally Posted by Robf52

I understand that effective Oct 1 Patek Philippe is raising prices of their yellow gold watches to the level of their rose gold and white gold. Just as Rolex prices their YG pieces, YG has historically been priced less expensive. Reportedly, this will mean about an 8% increase in PP YG pieces. For someone already owning a PP YG piece this is good news. The next question is whether Rolex will follow suit.

If gold ore becomes more expensive for Rolex to obtain, YG becomes more trendy to wear, or if there's even a perception of YG being more valuable in jewelry, Rolex can raise their price. They might have a stock pile from 2006 of more gold than we'll ever know about but if they think, that we think, it's more valuable, then they will charge more.

That being said, the 2 times I've been to a Rolex AD the only models the had for sale in men's sizes were solid YG, RG and platinum models. And those tend to sell for much less than MSRP new on the Gray Market.