Rolex vs Grand Seiko

[GCabot]

People will have differing opinions on aesthetics (e.g., I’m not sure how someone can simultaneously hate the redundancy of the Grand Seiko logo, yet have no problem with “Rolex” engraved a dozen times around the rehaut), the importance of name recognition/resale value, etc. And I can understand how mechanical purists would never consider a watch with spring drive, which, from a technical point of view, was Grand Seiko’s main draw in the past. Grand Seiko’s new 9SA5 movement, however, which is 100% mechanical, easily rivals the latest and greatest Rolex has to offer—it is a shot across the bow at Rolex if I ever saw one.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by GCabot

People will have differing opinions on aesthetics (e.g., I’m not sure how someone can simultaneously hate the redundancy of the Grand Seiko logo, yet have no problem with “Rolex” engraved a dozen times around the rehaut), the importance of name recognition/resale value, etc. And I can understand how mechanical purists would never consider a watch with spring drive, which, from a technical point of view, was Grand Seiko’s main draw in the past. Grand Seiko’s new 9SA5 movement, however, which is 100% mechanical, easily rivals the latest and greatest Rolex has to offer—it is a shot across the bow at Rolex if I ever saw one.

Well, as noted in post #8 in this thread, GS has been firing mechanical shots across the bow of the whole Swiss watchmaking industry since the 1960s, and even sank its chronometer trials with a couple of direct hits, after the only movements that could beat GS mechanicals were Omega quartz.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by drfrankenstein

It's really the ugliest logo. I can't get past it. Brands with epic recognizable logos: Rolex, Nike, Apple, etc. are part of what makes their products look great.

That's one opinion, but I actually really like the logo. It's been virtually the same for 60 years. It's so old-school and retro-looking, and it certainly fits the overall aesthetics of the GS brand.

[Jack T]

Originally Posted by swish77

That's one opinion, but I actually really like the logo. It's been virtually the same for 60 years. It's so old-school and retro-looking, and it certainly fits the overall aesthetics of the GS brand.

I don’t disagree, however I can do without the GS logo AND the words Grand Seiko.

If the logo is doing its job, the words are unnecessary.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Jack T

I don’t disagree, however I can do without the GS logo AND the words Grand Seiko.

If the logo is doing its job, the words are unnecessary.

Perhaps, but not sure how it's any different than some other brands, including Audemars Piguet using an "AP." I wonder if anyone has ever complained about the logo of that hallowed brand. In fact, it's exactly the same approach design-wise as GS.

Sure, some other brands have an actual symbol instead of letters that are placed next to the company name, such as Rolex (crown), Omega (Greek Omega symbol), but for other companies the letters ARE the logo, such as AP, Breitling (big B) and GS.

Also, keep in mind that Grand Seiko is Japanese, and they don't regularly use the Latin alphabet in that country, meaning there is probably no perceived redundancy in the logo and brand name, or at least it's not as apparent.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by Jack T

I don’t disagree, however I can do without the GS logo AND the words Grand Seiko.

If the logo is doing its job, the words are unnecessary.

Someone should tell Rolex their logo isn’t doing its job.... ;-)

[Dcraig]

[IMG][/IMG]

^^This makes me not want to wear this VV

[IMG][/IMG]

[MisterPam]

Originally Posted by oxblood

BMW vs Honda imo

It's more like Porsche vs Lexus

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Dcraig

[IMG][/IMG]

This is spectacular and looks really good on your wrist.

[subprimero]

In the USA they are rivals for the small percentage of watch owners who are also watch enthusiasts.

[munichblue]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Someone should tell Rolex their logo isn’t doing its job.... ;-)

[csong825]

Interesting thread. As a Rolex fan looking into getting a GS next, here’s my take. Where Rolex is unrivaled is branding. On the rare occasion that a non-watch person asks me about my watch and I tell him/her it’s a Rolex, that’s it. End of conversation. The person recognizes is it as an expensive watch. If I had a GS on, I feel obligated to explain the brand, the quality of their watches; essentially justify my choice. I’ve had the same experience with ALS. In the end I just tell people it’s like a Patek but German. Rolex and Patek have literally had generations to build up their brand. Will GS ever get there? Maybe. But we need to give them a few years, maybe even decades. On a side note, given the current Rolex market, the disappointing yearly releases, and the AD games we have to play, GS is an appealing alternative at a friendlier price point. Yesterday, I cold called a GS AD to inquire about the Spring. He said the there’s a waiting list of 3 ppl, he added me, took a $300 deposit, and we chatted about GS for a few minutes. It was quite refreshing.


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[chloebear]

Originally Posted by Jack T

I don’t disagree, however I can do without the GS logo AND the words Grand Seiko.

If the logo is doing its job, the words are unnecessary.

I think removing "SEIKO" from Grand Seiko's was a brilliant move. That was seriously redundant. The actual Grand Seiko logo and font is really really cool in my opinion.

[JSCP]

I wish I knew how to unsubscribe to this thread.

Being a Rolex, PP admirer of their products as best (an other), I find the GS discussion unnecessary. I know very snobby.

Seiko/Casio/Citizen in the 1970’s were a watches my dad would never wear, a quartz was for kids or ladies who would forget to wind up watches or wouldn’t take care of timepieces. He would have Tissot for us or my
mom for daily beater type watch, or even Timex.

I think brand has to deal a lot with like a watch, and design is key, and so it’s quality of movement, so a balance of those aspects is what’s important and that’s where Seiko comes at the bottom. Who wants to pay $ to have a Seiko brand that’s equivalent with low budget timepieces.

GS is a Seiko. It’s just doesn’t deserve much discussion in a Rolex Forum.

Next we might be talking about Michael Kors. Let get paid to promote it with other “influencers”.

I just don’t waste my hard earned money on Seiko. It doesn’t have style, it’s a styless brand.A waste of time —pun intended. Snobby yes. But buy what YOU like.

[asiparks]

Originally Posted by JSCP

I wish I knew how to unsubscribe to this thread.

Being a Rolex, PP admirer of their products as best (an other), I find the GS discussion unnecessary. I know very snobby.

Seiko/Casio/Citizen in the 1970’s were a watches my dad would never wear, a quartz was for kids or ladies who would forget to wind up watches or wouldn’t take care of timepieces. He would have Tissot for us or my
mom for daily beater type watch, or even Timex.

I think brand has to deal a lot with like a watch, and design is key, and so it’s quality of movement, so a balance of those aspects is what’s important and that’s where Seiko comes at the bottom. Who wants to pay $ to have a Seiko brand that’s equivalent with low budget timepieces.

GS is a Seiko. It’s just doesn’t deserve much discussion in a Rolex Forum.

Next we might be talking about Michael Kors. Let get paid to promote it with other “influencers”.

I just don’t waste my hard earned money on Seiko. It doesn’t have style, it’s a styless brand.A waste of time —pun intended. Snobby yes. But buy what YOU like.

hahahahahhahahahhhhahaahahhahhahahahahhhahahhah


Oh, wait, you were being serious.....
Let me then applaud your bravery for such a willfully spectacular display of ignorance. And on so many levels. Bravo sir ! Bravo.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by JSCP

I wish I knew how to unsubscribe to this thread.

Being a Rolex, PP admirer of their products as best (an other), I find the GS discussion unnecessary. I know very snobby.

Seiko/Casio/Citizen in the 1970’s were a watches my dad would never wear, a quartz was for kids or ladies who would forget to wind up watches or wouldn’t take care of timepieces. He would have Tissot for us or my
mom for daily beater type watch, or even Timex.

I think brand has to deal a lot with like a watch, and design is key, and so it’s quality of movement, so a balance of those aspects is what’s important and that’s where Seiko comes at the bottom. Who wants to pay $ to have a Seiko brand that’s equivalent with low budget timepieces.

GS is a Seiko. It’s just doesn’t deserve much discussion in a Rolex Forum.

Next we might be talking about Michael Kors. Let get paid to promote it with other “influencers”.

I just don’t waste my hard earned money on Seiko. It doesn’t have style, it’s a styless brand.A waste of time —pun intended. Snobby yes. But buy what YOU like.

Seiko is loaded with style, not all of it I appreciate but much of it I do. Sure they turn and burn a lot of models that come and go over time and can be quite forgettable but their divers especially have a continuous thread of design language that make them credibly aspirational. Just because they can be inexpensive doesn’t make them any less pleasurable and sometimes even more so. I mean in the grand scheme of things an SKX is really a marvel and a credible tool. As for Grand Seiko I personally can’t get past the redundancy of the name and GS on the dial, makes me crazy, but I get great joy in keeping Seiko divers in rotation with my Rolex and Omega. And the bottom line is that nobody notices but me anyway.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by JSCP

GS is a Seiko.

No, it's not. Two different brands. Is a Rolex a Tudor? Is a Lexus a Toyota. No.

[asiparks]

Originally Posted by swish77

No, it's not. Two different brands. Is a Rolex a Tudor? Is a Lexus a Toyota. No.

why even bother - all the info on Seiko's rich history of horological innovation is out there, were he curious enough to remove his head from his anal passage for a moment or two.
God knows what he'd make of Credor......

[Greglaw]

Originally Posted by JSCP

I wish I knew how to unsubscribe to this thread.

Being a Rolex, PP admirer of their products as best (an other), I find the GS discussion unnecessary. I know very snobby.

Seiko/Casio/Citizen in the 1970’s were a watches my dad would never wear, a quartz was for kids or ladies who would forget to wind up watches or wouldn’t take care of timepieces. He would have Tissot for us or my
mom for daily beater type watch, or even Timex.

I think brand has to deal a lot with like a watch, and design is key, and so it’s quality of movement, so a balance of those aspects is what’s important and that’s where Seiko comes at the bottom. Who wants to pay $ to have a Seiko brand that’s equivalent with low budget timepieces.

GS is a Seiko. It’s just doesn’t deserve much discussion in a Rolex Forum.

Next we might be talking about Michael Kors. Let get paid to promote it with other “influencers”.

I just don’t waste my hard earned money on Seiko. It doesn’t have style, it’s a styless brand.A waste of time —pun intended. Snobby yes. But buy what YOU like.

I wish you would unsubscribe from the whole TRF site.

[TimeAZ]

GS makes some incredible pieces that are beautifully designed with some of the most spectacular, breath-taking dials, and absolute best engineering and perfection in time-keeping precision. Their 9F movements are next-level, atomic accuracy. Spring drive is fascinating and a technical feat the swiss could never produce. Even GS mechanical movements under-promise and over-deliver in their stated accuracy.

I have the exact opposite with my Rolexes... never have I had the stated +/- 2 seconds "superlative chronometer", I am always around +5 or up to -9 seconds per day, the latter is just terrible. Look at the track record of the 32XX movements, so many are losing amplitude and time, LOL. Meanwhile my SARB033 (a Seiko model, NOT a GS) uses a 6R15D movement that is +/- 3 spd, better than my Rolex.

I still wear my Rolex the most, because Rolex understands how to produce a proper bracelet and clasp, plus the Rolex feels more comfortable on the wrist. I think the oyster case with its smaller caseback profile sits more naturally on my small wrist. If and when GS finally masters the construction of the bracelet and further refines the wearing experience of their case design, then I will probably become more of a GS convert. In the absence of these factors, I think GS belongs on a nice strap, which works well on some models (SBGW231) but not as satisfactory on others.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by JSCP

GS is a Seiko. It’s just doesn’t deserve much discussion in a Rolex Forum.

Ludicrous.

[Stealthdriver]

Grand Seiko is sometimes perceived as a just a higher tier Seiko (which actually is a compliment). But unfortunately to the snobs it isn't swiss made. However, the care put into the development and creation of these watches is second to none in their price range. They are starting to get 'known' now too, and increase in price, so I advise getting on the train now.

[Axi128]

I love both for their different styles but the Rolex brand is on a higher league.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by asiparks

why even bother - all the info on Seiko's rich history of horological innovation is out there, were he curious enough to remove his head from his anal passage for a moment or two.
God knows what he'd make of Credor......

True

[JSCP]

Would waste time or $ on GS. ZThanknyou stick to Rolex, Patek,VC, AP, Breguet

[munichblue]

Originally Posted by JSCP

Would waste time or $ on GS. ZThanknyou stick to Rolex, Patek,VC, AP, Breguet

People like you really don't make me look at my Vacheron Constantin and Rolex with joy.

[Sandpit]

Originally Posted by JSCP

I wish I knew how to unsubscribe to this thread.

Being a Rolex, PP admirer of their products as best (an other), I find the GS discussion unnecessary. I know very snobby.

Seiko/Casio/Citizen in the 1970’s were a watches my dad would never wear, a quartz was for kids or ladies who would forget to wind up watches or wouldn’t take care of timepieces. He would have Tissot for us or my
mom for daily beater type watch, or even Timex.

I think brand has to deal a lot with like a watch, and design is key, and so it’s quality of movement, so a balance of those aspects is what’s important and that’s where Seiko comes at the bottom. Who wants to pay $ to have a Seiko brand that’s equivalent with low budget timepieces.

GS is a Seiko. It’s just doesn’t deserve much discussion in a Rolex Forum.

Next we might be talking about Michael Kors. Let get paid to promote it with other “influencers”.

I just don’t waste my hard earned money on Seiko. It doesn’t have style, it’s a styless brand.A waste of time —pun intended. Snobby yes. But buy what YOU like.

I’ve read some rubbish here before, but this is up there with the worst of it

[airchitect]

Well from what I know, having worked at a Japanese company and seeing what’s what, in Japan, GS trumps Rolex. Period. From a brand recognition perspective, nobody touches Rolex…..not GS, AP, PP, anyone. But from an actual quality perspective, most of the GS I’ve handled kick the piss out of Rolex. They just do. Yet…..there’s always a yet…..I have a hard time warming up to their designs which are typically a bit overwrought in a very Japanese kind of way. NTM, yes the mall model Seikos do steal some of that design language which make them all seem a little cheap. That said, someday I shall have a SBGJ203 at steep discount. One thing I’ve noticed on the forum is it’s very rare for people to admit Rolex isn’t “the best”. Some even get offended like their watches are newborn infants. Fact is plenty of other cos make a finer product or specific model than Rolex and people get pissy because they spent a fortune on the Rolex variety. Prob the best example is Daytona vs SMP vs Navitimer vs El Primero….. the Daytona literally has no provenance. Like….at all. But some folks treat it like Channing Tatum at a bachelorette party. Yeah I like Daytona’s ok, but I know the others are actually more “accomplished” pieces and actually worth their prices. Daytona???? It’s simply an investment at this point. Damn I really want a Navitimer now


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[airchitect]

Originally Posted by Sandpit

I’ve read some rubbish here before, but this is up there with the worst of it

You’re correct sir that’s a really bad post


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[asiparks]

Originally Posted by JSCP

Would waste time or $ on GS. ZThanknyou stick to Rolex, Patek,VC, AP, Breguet

Well ok, your eloquent argument and wry observation have totally changed my mind- do you have an instagram I can maybe follow.....?