Interesting experience regarding authentication at AD

[daOnlyBG]

So, I have a watch listed for sale elsewhere. Someone reached out and asked if we could meet at an authorized dealer to have it authenticated. I responded that I'd have no issues with that at all. If the watch is legit, buyer pays- if anything is wrong, I pay, etc.

I called up CD Peacock in the greater Chicagoland area. Last year, I had them authenticate a Rolex Day-Date for no more than $100. They even printed a receipt.

When I called on Friday to confirm their watchmaker's hours, he said "$500." I paused. $500? That swings a buyer's budget tremendously and jeopardizes a deal. I mentioned that $500 was far more than I paid last year, but he shrugged and said "company policy."

OK. I decided to call a different CD Peacock location 20 minutes away. "$400. Sorry, but that's strict company policy." Sure, very strict.

A different Rolex AD in the area told me "We cannot officially authenticate a watch, but we can give the watch to our expert Rolex-trained watchmakers who will give you a verbal opinion."

"How much?"

"Free. Takes about half hour."



Has anyone else noticed a price shock at some ADs?

[schoolboy]

What!?

I called last year to an AD and they charged $200

[TurboTim14]

That's probably just their way of telling you they don't want to do it.

[Tavli3]

Originally Posted by turbotim14

that's probably just their way of telling you they don't want to do it.

+1

[superstarmar]

Originally Posted by turbotim14

that's probably just their way of telling you they don't want to do it.

Originally Posted by tavli3

+1

x2....

[ChipotleBanana]

The fact that AD's ask any amount of money to authenticate is preposterous. My AD here in Utah has never once charge myself or any of my friends to authenticate any watches. Any competent Rolex staff should be able to tell you immediately. $70-$100 for an appraisal already seems more than adequate.

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by ChipotleBanana

The fact that AD's ask any amount of money to authenticate is preposterous. My AD here in Utah has never once charge myself or any of my friends to authenticate any watches. Any competent Rolex staff should be able to tell you immediately. $70-$100 for an appraisal already seems more than adequate.

Expecting someone to donate their time and skill for free to allow you to buy or sell a watch is preposterous. Charging for professional consultation is perfectly justified and normal behaviour.

Regarding how much people charge to do a job (and this is true in any industry); you weigh up how much you value your time versus how much you do/don't want to do the job.

[DoxaDavid]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

Expecting someone to donate their time and skill for free to allow you to buy or sell a watch is preposterous. Charging for professional consultation is perfectly justified and normal behaviour.

Regarding how much people charge to do a job (and this is true in any industry); you weigh up how much you value your time versus how much you do/don't want to do the job.

Totally agree with you Scott. Their time and knowledge have value and they should charge for it.

$500 for that service is egregious in my opinion and would look elsewhere. To merely authenticate a watch should be at most a 15 min proposition. $100-150 seems reasonable. $500 is clearly announcing they don’t want to do that kind of thing which is their prerogative.

[037]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

Expecting someone to donate their time and skill for free to allow you to buy or sell a watch is preposterous. Charging for professional consultation is perfectly justified and normal behaviour.

Regarding how much people charge to do a job (and this is true in any industry); you weigh up how much you value your time versus how much you do/don't want to do the job.

100%

[Rolexfellow]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

Expecting someone to donate their time and skill for free to allow you to buy or sell a watch is preposterous. Charging for professional consultation is perfectly justified and normal behaviour.

Regarding how much people charge to do a job (and this is true in any industry); you weigh up how much you value your time versus how much you do/don't want to do the job.

This

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

Expecting someone to donate their time and skill for free to allow you to buy or sell a watch is preposterous. Charging for professional consultation is perfectly justified and normal behaviour.

Regarding how much people charge to do a job (and this is true in any industry); you weigh up how much you value your time versus how much you do/don't want to do the job.

Completely agree.

Not sure why any AD would do this and not sure why a third party would expect them to?

[kieselguhr]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

Expecting someone to donate their time and skill for free to allow you to buy or sell a watch is preposterous. Charging for professional consultation is perfectly justified and normal behaviour.

Regarding how much people charge to do a job (and this is true in any industry); you weigh up how much you value your time versus how much you do/don't want to do the job.

People expecting free service in any industry. Do invest time in learning whichever skill you expect complimentary service for yourself and perform it free of charge for others. Especially since you feel so strongly about this

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by TurboTim14

That's probably just their way of telling you they don't want to do it.

That's precisely what it is.

ADs and watchmakers have nothing to gain and everything to lose by 'authenticating' watches. That's why it's increasingly difficult to find people to do it at all, never mind for free.

First and foremost, that is not our job. Can't stress that enough.

Secondly, if anything turns out to be wrong down the line there's a liability issue that can bite us in the ass. Everyone is friendly until someone loses money off the back of a 'favour', then things get legal.

The way that the second problem is mitigated is most authentications will be done with a caveat to the effect of stating that any advice given is just an opinion (albeit an informed opinion) and cannot be relied on as definitive proof of authenticity. This makes the whole thing a somewhat redundant.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

First and foremost, that is not our job. Can't stress that enough.

Fair enough, but try to see that as general consumers, we're getting fed a lot of mixed signals from the ADs themselves.

We go to Rolex's website and they insist that if we have any questions, we should go to our "authorized Rolex retailer."

Fine.

We go to the Rolex AD and some will say "sorry, we don't do that here, we'll have to send in to RSC" and then charge the nominal shipping fee or whatever. But then others say "Yes, we charge $500" instead of the more honest and straightforward former response.

So what are we supposed to think, especially since those very same ADs used to charge a much smaller, nominal fee beforehand?

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

Fair enough, but try to see that as general consumers, we're getting fed a lot of mixed signals from the ADs themselves.

We go to Rolex's website and they insist that if we have any questions, we should go to our "authorized Rolex retailer."

Fine.

We go to the Rolex AD and some will say "sorry, we don't do that here, we'll have to send in to RSC" and then charge the nominal shipping fee or whatever. But then others say "Yes, we charge $500" instead of the more honest and straightforward former response.

So what are we supposed to think, especially since those very same ADs used to charge a much smaller, nominal fee beforehand?

Yep ....the whole Rolex/AD thing is a total marketing shambles

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by wappinghigh

Yep ....the whole Rolex/AD thing is a total marketing shambles

Far from it. Rolex is completely dominating the luxury watch market.

Only AP, Patek and RM offer any sort of competition.

In fact Rolex is so dominant that it could put other brands, whose marketing actually are a shambles, out of business.

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

Fair enough, but try to see that as general consumers, we're getting fed a lot of mixed signals from the ADs themselves.

We go to Rolex's website and they insist that if we have any questions, we should go to our "authorized Rolex retailer."

Fine.

We go to the Rolex AD and some will say "sorry, we don't do that here, we'll have to send in to RSC" and then charge the nominal shipping fee or whatever. But then others say "Yes, we charge $500" instead of the more honest and straightforward former response.

So what are we supposed to think, especially since those very same ADs used to charge a much smaller, nominal fee beforehand?

I completely disagree. By and large the mixed signals are born out of forums like this - most ADs are unwaveringly consistent with the services they provide (whether the specific store meets the needs of a specific customer is another matter). It becomes problematic when people from across one hundred different countries share experiences and expect the same thing to happen for them as happened 4000 miles away. Each AD is it’s own business with it’s own identity, and it’s own mission.

If you don’t like the service or services from a specific AD, find another one. It’s that simple. People have no right to demand every store offers the exact services that they require just because it suits the customer to be in that store. Authentications and buying/selling used watches are a good example of this since many ADs don’t touch these with a barge pole.

It’s easy to have grand ideas about how other people should run their business. How many here have gone out and put their ideas in to action, spent the millions required to set up a watch store that carries Rolex, just so they can achieve the ultimate goal of doing little jobs for free to ‘enthusiasts’...anyone?

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

I completely disagree. By and large the mixed signals are born out of forums like this - most ADs are unwaveringly consistent with the services they provide (whether the specific store meets the needs of a specific customer is another matter). It becomes problematic when people from across one hundred different countries share experiences and expect the same thing to happen for them as happened 4000 miles away. Each AD is it’s own business with it’s own identity, and it’s own mission.

If you don’t like the service or services from a specific AD, find another one. It’s that simple. People have no right to demand every store offers the exact services that they require just because it suits the customer to be in that store. Authentications and buying/selling used watches are a good example of this since many ADs don’t touch these with a barge pole.

It’s easy to have grand ideas about how other people should run their business. How many here have gone out and put their ideas in to action, spent the millions required to set up a watch store that carries Rolex, just so they can achieve the ultimate goal of doing little jobs for free to ‘enthusiasts’...anyone?

What retailer ever stayed in business not looking after 100% their enthusiast clientele?

The arrogance of your post is amazing..

SO you think this AD/Grey market flipper thing is going to go on forever eh??

[rodo]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

That's precisely what it is.

ADs and watchmakers have nothing to gain and everything to lose by 'authenticating' watches. That's why it's increasingly difficult to find people to do it at all, never mind for free.

First and foremost, that is not our job. Can't stress that enough.

Secondly, if anything turns out to be wrong down the line there's a liability issue that can bite us in the ass. Everyone is friendly until someone loses money off the back of a 'favour', then things get legal.

The way that the second problem is mitigated is most authentications will be done with a caveat to the effect of stating that any advice given is just an opinion (albeit an informed opinion) and cannot be relied on as definitive proof of authenticity. This makes the whole thing a somewhat redundant.

This

[RHIII]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

That's precisely what it is.

ADs and watchmakers have nothing to gain and everything to lose by 'authenticating' watches. That's why it's increasingly difficult to find people to do it at all, never mind for free.

First and foremost, that is not our job. Can't stress that enough.

Secondly, if anything turns out to be wrong down the line there's a liability issue that can bite us in the ass. Everyone is friendly until someone loses money off the back of a 'favour', then things get legal.

The way that the second problem is mitigated is most authentications will be done with a caveat to the effect of stating that any advice given is just an opinion (albeit an informed opinion) and cannot be relied on as definitive proof of authenticity. This makes the whole thing a somewhat redundant.

Absolutely right. Agree with this 100%.

Many ADs don’t have anyone who could be considered (or would want to be for that matter) and expert. Too much liability.


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[TempoKing]

Originally Posted by RHIII

Absolutely right. Agree with this 100%.
Many ADs don’t have anyone who could be considered (or would want to be for that matter) and expert. Too much liability.
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APPRAISALS remember them ?
Are essential to the business of a jewelry store and cost between
$50 and $150 per hour.....if there are no experts.....How can you
trust them buying a $10,000 item ?

[RHIII]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

APPRAISALS remember them ?
Are essential to the business of a jewelry store and cost between
$50 and $150 per hour.....if there are no experts.....How can you
trust them buying a $10,000 item ?

I would submit there’s a difference here between an appraisal vs. an authentication request the OP is requesting here - and whether or not there’s a person qualified to do it.

I collect artwork - and I will tell you that there is a BIG and critical difference between an appraisal and an authentication - now there are some exceptions - but appraisers are NOT qualified to authenticate artwork. Again there are of course some exceptions. Appraisals follow the USPAP standards - authentication is a MUCH more detailed analytical process that could involve curation, records analysis etc.

I have appraisals for every watch in own and the majority of jewelry my wife owns. My AD provides upon purchase. That was purchased directly from them as an AD. And jewelry is all appraised by certified geologists. They KNOW every new watch came directly from Rolex. My AD might do, said authentication - I don’t know. But I do know they have a certified Rolex watchmaker in house.

My .02


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[Speed]

Originally Posted by TurboTim14

That's probably just their way of telling you they don't want to do it.

This.

The $400 / $500 charges were not so subtle code for “go away”

Not much in it for an AD to “authenticate” - except for headaches and risk.

[t65tampa]

Originally Posted by TurboTim14

That's probably just their way of telling you they don't want to do it.

Agree with that. The dealer takes all the liability for very little compensation, relatively. Have you seen all the posts on this forum from folks that have watches scratched when links or straps/bracelets are swapped out? Imagine if the watch got a scratch or ding when the movement would be inspected - who's watch is it then and who is going to pay to make it as pristine as it was? Rolex ADs are there to sell watches and keep their clients happy. They aren't interested in facilitating after market sales from third parties.

If it means that much to you, I'd just pay the few hundred bucks and ask for an insurance appraisal at the same time.

[kieselguhr]

Originally Posted by TurboTim14

That's probably just their way of telling you they don't want to do it.

This is likely the case. There is no benefit to them in authenticating a watch, if anything it predisposes them to liability (think about all the OCD complaints on this forum). Especially if the watchmaker is swamped with work orders, I am pretty sure they were hoping you would walk the other way.

Edit: lol I see I am about 42 minutes too late as I just regurgitated what Tampa said without having read prior posts

[Tricolore66]

They’re in the business of selling watches, not helping you sell your watch. What happens if they authenticate it and six months later a service center tells the buyer it’s not real (even if that’s not true)? The dealer who authenticated it for a measly $100 is probably going to get sued, and you’re probably the guy who’s gong to sue them. Hard pass, an AD would be nuts to open those doors.

Originally Posted by TurboTim14

That's probably just their way of telling you they don't want to do it.

[goodolejr]

Wherever you go, make sure there is some kind of security measure in place that will prevent a prospective "buyer" from grabbing it and dashing out the door.

There have been stories here recently about thieves posing as buyers wanting a face-to-face transaction and running out to a getaway car or just being an exceptionally fast runner to evade anyone chasing him.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by goodolejr

Wherever you go, make sure there is some kind of security measure in place that will prevent a prospective "buyer" from grabbing it and dashing out the door.

This is actually a pretty good point. The CD Peacock in question is located inside a mall, and to be quite honest, their lack of robust security is noticeable.

But my plan wasn't to have the transaction there. The buyer just wanted to see the result straight from the AD (they argue that I, a stranger, could theoretically "fake" any authentication documents).

[train-time]

The last time I called a local AD regarding authenticating a watch for sale and meeting a perspective buyer at their location, they said that they would not do any authentication of the watch and would not allow a transfer or sale to take place on their premises.

[214270Explorer]

AD's have better things to do instead of authenticating watches all day. Plus it involves them in potential other issues they neither need nor want. Issues already mentioned, and others.

Would I authenticate watches were I an AD?

No frakkin way in H-E double hockeysticks.