So the Daytona market is finally seeing a heavy correction!

[roh123]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

I don’t own a 4 digit but have a few zeniths....not sure I want to trade a couple zeniths and maybe a sub for a 4 digit.....I think the 40mm size of the zeniths will hold up value wise better than some of the 4 digits out there...what do you guys think???

I think a decline in manual Daytonas will cool down the demand for automatic ones. Same goes for when the ceramic one starts to cost list price again. But who knows.. I still don’t have a crystal ball.

[1665fan]

I don’t either lol and I’m thinking the money might be safer with zeniths due to the 40mm size but of course that is just me speculating. One thing I have always had a problem with is paying 50-60-70k for something with a valjoux72 when you can get the same movement in a 2-3-4K watch or less.....but of course you can find a zenith movement in a cheaper watch as well...

[swish77]

Originally Posted by roh123

Lots and lots of good Daytonas available in the market.

Really? Can you share some links of these “lots and lots?” I see some on The Rolex Passion Market, and other well-known dealers get them once in a while, but where are all these Daytonas? And I don’t count the dubious examples you often see on Chrono24 and EBay.

[rmlovett1]

Originally Posted by swish77

Really? Can you share some links of these “lots and lots?” I see some on The Rolex Passion Market, and other well-known dealers get them once in a while, but where are all these Daytonas? And I don’t count the dubious examples you often see on Chrono24 and EBay.

I agree, and recently I’ve been looking with intent. The well known dealers prices have softened “a bit” on price, and I mean not much. I’d say just following market trend(noticed the same on red subs). But the great examples of 6263 or 6265’s are getting much harder to find right now...inventory of outstanding example 4 digit Daytona’s has definitely dwindled, at least in the US. Maybe it’s just the time of year, collectors have snapped up the “good ones”, etc.... I’m not sure, but definitely not as plentiful. Half of what is on Chrono24 is old, sold inventory.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by swish77

Really? Can you share some links of these “lots and lots?” I see some on The Rolex Passion Market, and other well-known dealers get them once in a while, but where are all these Daytonas? And I don’t count the dubious examples you often see on Chrono24 and EBay.

Just follow the the hundreds of dealers of Instagram and you will see good Daytonas basically every day. Or just go to any IWJG show. There is no shortage at all for good examples.

[michael23]

Originally Posted by roh123

Just follow the the hundreds of dealers of Instagram and you will see good Daytonas basically every day. Or just go to any IWJG show. There is no shortage at all for good examples.

Personally I haven't found this to be the case. It is still very difficult or nearly impossible to find good examples at lesser prices. They have been going up a lot and still continuing to go up. I know because I am also searching for good 6263 and they are all at least 100k usd or more (without box and papers).

[roh123]

Originally Posted by michael23

Personally I haven't found this to be the case. It is still very difficult or nearly impossible to find good examples at lesser prices. They have been going up a lot and still continuing to go up. I know because I am also searching for good 6263 and they are all at least 100k usd or more (without box and papers).

Happy hunting then.

[watch-guy.com]

I heard the Eric, Andrew and Jed are now offering a two for one special on all 4 digit daytonas

Merry xmas happy new year and enjoy your watches

[jfmiii]

Originally Posted by michael23

I know because I am also searching for good 6263 and they are all at least 100k usd or more (without box and papers).

this just is not true. at least not in the US.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by roh123

Just follow the the hundreds of dealers of Instagram and you will see good Daytonas basically every day. Or just go to any IWJG show. There is no shortage at all for good examples.

I do follow a lot of the top dealers, and this is just not the case. Sure, some pop up occasionally, but not that many, and certainly not that many Big Red 6263s. I don't know about the shows. I don't attend them regularly.

Originally Posted by jfmiii

this just is not true. at least not in the US.

Yup, prices in Europe and Asia are definitely higher.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by swish77

I do follow a lot of the top dealers, and this is just not the case. Sure, some pop up occasionally, but not that many, and certainly not that many Big Red 6263s. I don't know about the shows. I don't attend them regularly.




Yup, prices in Europe and Asia are definitely higher.

The market is much bigger than Andrew, Eric and Matt.

Here is btw a recent quote from one of the bigger US dealers when offered a very good, full set big red sigma 6265.

The market is down a lot right now on Daytona for some reason

Sure, they always try to buy cheap but I would not disregard it as complete nonsense. I would still recommend buyers with cash on hand to ask around. I think it is a very good buyers market right now when it comes to Daytonas.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by roh123

The market is much bigger than Andrew, Eric and Matt.

Here is btw a recent quote from one of the bigger US dealers when offered a very good, full set big red sigma 6265.

Yup, well aware of the vintage market. Been doing this for a quarter-century.

And one comment from one dealer does not make a trend, especially when it's about a 6265, which have never sold as well as 6263s.

My point is that yes, it appears the market for vintage Daytonas has softened a bit, but let's not over-state it without more time and evidence. Let's check again in six months. It's also the time of year. I doubt a lot of Big Reds are being bought as Christmas presents.

[xeal]

You guys believe me now?
Here's another 6265 from Mr Morgan that has been sitting around for around 2 weeks.
https://www.iconicwatchcompany.com/s...DAYTONA12.html

Another dealer sold a silver 6263 for the $70K, correct with MK 2 pushers and MK 3 bezel.

Black 6263s seem to still command a premium compared to silver, and are very less frequently seen on the market.

I personally have a feeling they will come down and stabilize at the $55-$60K mark. :)
The last part is just a guess, but the earlier part is not an assumption re the market softening heavily.

[cajuntiger]

Originally Posted by xeal

You guys believe me now?

OMG...two whole weeks. The sky is falling. Sell now or you are screwed.

[greekbum]

Ive been at this a while myself all one has to look at is the stock market correction since September October. The USA has entered a recession imho already and globally things are really slowing down fast. All sectors are falling. Whats this got to do with watches? Allot and nothing. The OP mentioned the vintage Daytona market the most dangerous and speculative of all vintage Rolex imho. If you bought it as jewelery with disposable income you could give a rats @@@. If you bought it as an investment or speculation I think just as in all other instruments you invest or speculate in you are about to feel some stomach pain going forward. This is just my opinion

[mattedialdoc]

Originally Posted by greekbum

Ive been at this a while myself all one has to look at is the stock market correction since September October. The USA has entered a recession imho already and globally things are really slowing down fast. All sectors are falling. Whats this got to do with watches? Allot and nothing. The OP mentioned the vintage Daytona market the most dangerous and speculative of all vintage Rolex imho. If you bought it as jewelery with disposable income you could give a rats @@@. If you bought it as an investment or speculation I think just as in all other instruments you invest or speculate in you are about to feel some stomach pain going forward. This is just my opinion

One of our most experienced and distinguished members, in both Stocks and Watches. The Gospel!!


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[1665fan]

116520 are still rising....most nice ones jumped from 15-16 to 17-18k

[swish77]

Originally Posted by xeal

You guys believe me now?
Here's another 6265 from Mr Morgan that has been sitting around for around 2 weeks.
https://www.iconicwatchcompany.com/s...DAYTONA12.html

Another dealer sold a silver 6263 for the $70K, correct with MK 2 pushers and MK 3 bezel.

Black 6263s seem to still command a premium compared to silver, and are very less frequently seen on the market.

I personally have a feeling they will come down and stabilize at the $55-$60K mark. :)
The last part is just a guess, but the earlier part is not an assumption re the market softening heavily.

The 6265s have never commanded the prices and/or demand of 6263s, so it doesn't surprise me that those sit a little longer. But two weeks, just after Christmas time, is considered a long time for a watch that's $70K? Tough standards!

One sale of a 6263 without any other details is meaningless. What was the dial condition, the hours plots, the hands, patina, case condition, movement, service, etc .. ? These are the details that constitute value on these precious timepieces.

Disagree that black dials command a premium compared to the silver/white. I've heard that about the Asian market, but I don't see it elsewhere, and it certainly wasn't the case the two times over the last five years when I bought a black 6263, then a white one. The overall condition is much more important and is the main reason for price differences, not just the color of the dial.

Lastly, I came across this interesting comment from esteemed collector/dealer Stefano Mazzariol in an interview on Rolex Passion Market, when he was asked about any potential bubble buying vintage Rolexes, specifically 6263s:

"I think that classic Vintage watchmaking is not exposed to such a danger. I can give you an example with a classic, Daytona 6263. It was manufactured from 1970 to 1988 and about 12000 units were made, 666 per year. How many of them are available on the market today? Let’s say a half? And how many are in great condition? Again a half? Finally, how many are complete? In my opinion we are considering less than 1000 units, and I believe there are more than 1000 people who aspire to own one. I believe that there is always more demand than offer."

[roh123]

Just because there is demand doesn’t mean prices can’t go down. Many people want to buy but few want to pay yesterdays price. Prices moving up or down is normal for most collector markets.

It is clear that prices peaked before the Daytona Ultimatum. After that prices have cooled off and currently with the financial markets being shaky it is not odd that also this market is affected.

Right now I believe cash is king. Not only if you are looking at Daytonas. With patience good opportunities will come. Personally I am not in a rush to buy anything.

[greekbum]

The 1000s unit number above really made me laugh. There is no shortage of vintage Daytona’s online it seams every dealer has all you want. I guess he’s not including the 100s of franken or fakes being made daily. Like I said above the vintage Daytona market is the most dangerous and speculative. I don’t want to speculate on the number of really good fake or Frankenstein ones are out there but I think it’s over 35% just my opinion.

[Oscar1971]

I don’t know if this is any interest to anyone but my watch repair guy is doing a apraisial on this Daytona and is in U.K. if any one is interested I can pass you his details

[swish77]

Originally Posted by greekbum

The 1000s unit number above really made me laugh. There is no shortage of vintage Daytona’s online it seams every dealer has all you want. I guess he’s not including the 100s of franken or fakes being made daily. Like I said above the vintage Daytona market is the most dangerous and speculative. I don’t want to speculate on the number of really good fake or Frankenstein ones are out there but I think it’s over 35% just my opinion.

Hmmm .... not sure I agree that there are that many great examples available “from every dealer.” Sure, you see nice ones pop up now and again, but it’s not as if dozens and dozens are available all of the time, not that I see anyway.

As for Franken-watches, yes, for sure, as with all vintage Rolexes. That’s why I think the original stamped Rolex guarantee paper is even more important with vintage Daytonas, and RSC service papers too. At least that way you have more protection.