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Old 19 May 2016, 03:28 AM   #1
mrricks
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Don't understand vintage

I have a Submariner that I got new in 1977. I guess it has a slight "patina", but nothing like some of the ones I've seen here. Why would that be? Is there some kind of artificial "ageing" process that's applied. I collect Persian and Central Asian tribal carpets and oriental antiques and I know this happens in that realm. The older a quality piece is, (or appears to be), the more valuable it becomes.

I've worn it almost nonstop since I got it. It's been diving dozens of times and swam five miles a week for thirty years. The bezel was replaced because the little dot in the triangle came off. I only noticed how faded the black on the bezel had become when I saw it side by side with the new one. I wrote that off as the effect of chlorine in the pools I swam in. The crystal, (lexan), has been replaced twice. Once for a chemical burn that started to melt it, and once because it was cracked, but still passed pressure test, but when I had it serviced last year I decided to replace it for cosmetic reasons.

I guess I could sell it at a "vintage" price, but won't as it has great sentimental value. It was a gift from the Shah of Iran when I worked for the Imperial Iranian Air Force, back in the good old days.

Without the serious "patina", and with the replaced bezel and crystals, is it considered "vintage"?

MSRP in Iran in 1977 was $770.00.
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Old 19 May 2016, 03:52 AM   #2
crgrbrts
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Smack it on a concrete floor a few times then stake it out in the noontime sun for a month. That'll increase the value two-fold :-) .
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Old 19 May 2016, 04:02 AM   #3
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Beautiful watch and story, thanks for sharing!

If I am not mistaken, the brown patina comes about by being left somewhere where there is not a lot of light. If the face is exposed to the sun, it turns white. I personally like the white patina.

I have a ’77 GMT and I consider it vintage.
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Old 19 May 2016, 04:09 AM   #4
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My personal view is that there're some pretty odd 'vintage' wants expressed on the internet and some of it has driven self-licking lollipop behaviour. It sounds as though your watch has a stunning provenance - a subtle difference to the apparent desire for originality over all other considerations (however knackered that may be). If you have photos of the personal presentation of this watch to you by the Shah of Iran -well, personally, I'm far more awed by that provenance of real-world/ real-history than obtuse aesthetic 'wants'.
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Old 19 May 2016, 04:17 AM   #5
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the story and the memorys are worth more than the watches value ever could be ... a true keeper
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Old 19 May 2016, 04:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrricks View Post
It was a gift from the Shah of Iran when I worked for the Imperial Iranian Air Force, back in the good old days.
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Old 19 May 2016, 04:51 AM   #7
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double post
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Old 19 May 2016, 05:04 AM   #8
mrricks
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It wasn't presented personally by the Shah. He visited several classrooms at the IIAF facility I worked at. A couple of weeks later a group of us were called in to the commander's office and given the watches. The Shah was too busy to hand out stuff to lowly instructors. This is not a big deal in the middle east. They hand these out like jellybeans.
I have Datejust 16233 that I bought in Abu Dhabi. It was highly discounted because it was a service award to an Aramco employee who preferred to sell it and take cash.
In the local newspaper classifieds there are dozens of "new" items for sale including Ferraris, Lambos etc. marked "unwanted gift".
At the Dubai airport they sell tickets for the "Dubai Surprise", it's a high end car. Ticket costs $125.00 and tickets sold are limited. So a group poor Indians or Pakistanis go in on a ticket and sometimes they win. They really don't need a Bentley in Karachi, so they sell it at a big discount.
I guess my slight patina Sub is because it spent all of it's life in Iran and the Arabian Peninsula where there is quite a bit of sun.

I think I'll pass on the "Smack it on a concrete floor" treatment.

Carpet dealers in Tehran put new carpets on heavily trafficked streets to put a little "age" on them. Good quality carpets are tough and aren't really broken in until they have 20 years of foot traffic. This speeds up the process.

Here's the 16233 certificate and my IIAF ID/gate pass.
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Old 19 May 2016, 05:23 AM   #9
1675-David
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For my part vintage watches are just so much cooler than modern ones, back in the day functionality and charisma went sort of hand in hand and hit the sweet spot circa 1968-78, and I don't just mean wristwatches, the design esthetic of that period has had such an influence that we will be living in it's wake for decades...
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Old 19 May 2016, 05:53 AM   #10
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Nice story. Patina is influenced by the enviroment and light exposure.
I personally consider vintage a watch which is over 30yrs old. Even with the replaced parts your watch is still a vintage.
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Old 19 May 2016, 06:50 AM   #11
Brianmac 883
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I personally consider vintage a watch which is over 30yrs old. Even with the replaced parts your watch is still a vintage.
I agree with this as a general rule . For me with Rolex, 4 digit model number + plexi crystal = vintage. Service parts (from Rolex) don't make it "non-vintage"... but will affect the value (sometimes dramatically) in the vintage market. Crazy, IMHO, but that's the way it is.
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Old 19 May 2016, 07:22 AM   #12
mrricks
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"Crazy", I agree. I wanted my watch to be usable, therefore replaced some exterior parts,(with authentic Rolex parts). Affected "value" means nothing to me since I'm keeping it.
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Old 19 May 2016, 07:33 AM   #13
Tan
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This is definitely vintage. Excellent provenance on the watch and great story.
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Old 19 May 2016, 07:47 AM   #14
JohnnyNoDate
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Your piece is perfect with great history.

I wouldn't get too hung up with the watch not meeting your vintage patina criterias.

If you want to change it up a little, you could source a vintage bezel insert and simply swap it in. It'll dramatically "upgrade" your piece.
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Old 19 May 2016, 08:00 AM   #15
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At the Dubai airport they sell tickets for the "Dubai Surprise", it's a high end car. Ticket costs $125.00 and tickets sold are limited. So a group poor Indians or Pakistanis go in on a ticket and sometimes they win. They really don't need a Bentley in Karachi, so they sell it at a big discount.
lets just stick to the shah of iran story and not drift away into random generalization..meanwhile here is my 1680 red to keep the post relevant

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Old 19 May 2016, 08:18 AM   #16
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I would guess by the quality of photos you were not in the reconnaissance office ;)

Wear it, enjoy it - it is nice, does what it needs to do, and has some historical significance. I am gonna guess not many were handed out for too much longer.

It looks like a nice, honest, watch
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Old 19 May 2016, 09:31 AM   #17
thomaspp
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Great 1680 with awesome personal history. I won't try to claim (or even try) to "get" vintage. Just try to enjoy it!


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Old 19 May 2016, 10:22 AM   #18
Paul_I
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I just realized I can't find the popcorn smiley anymore.
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Old 19 May 2016, 11:36 AM   #19
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My latest acquisition is a 1968 GMT. I chased it for about 1 1/2 years and finally landed it about 2 months ago.

"Unproveable" history of this watch is that the original owner, deceased in the 1990's, came to be the owner of this watch by being an Iranian Air Force pilot and having it presented to him by the Shah.

The man I purchased it from is married to an Iranian woman and has been friends with the family of the man and he was able to purchase it from the widow.

I have the original inner box, guarantee, and a couple of pieces of paper but unfortunately not the chronometer certification.

Soon it will return from Rik and I can hardly stand the wait.
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Old 20 May 2016, 09:43 AM   #20
fizz
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lets just stick to the shah of iran story and not drift away into random generalization..meanwhile here is my 1680 red to keep the post relevant

Agreed!
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Old 21 May 2016, 02:18 PM   #21
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lets just stick to the shah of iran story and not drift away into random generalization..meanwhile here is my 1680 red to keep the post relevant





Great pic! I don't recall having seen a tropical feet first before.
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Old 22 May 2016, 05:46 AM   #22
qadhi
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Great pic! I don't recall having seen a tropical feet first before.
Thanks. I think the interior lights may have something to do with it. Here are some pics in daylight without any filter.









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Old 22 May 2016, 05:55 AM   #23
Vincent65
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Great vintage Sub with a personal story and connection - enjoy!
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