Lang and Heyne

[Cozmopak]

Thoughts on the brand? Any current owners? There aren’t very many for sale on the secondary market, which is likely a function of their small production numbers, but may also speak to their quality.

How do they compare to Lange Sohne? Obviously, there’s a difference in scale.

[ts3]

If you are looking at Lange and Heyne you may also want to look at Moritz Grossmann.

[Cozmopak]

Originally Posted by ts3

If you are looking at Lange and Heyne you may also want to look at Moritz Grossmann.

Grossmann finishing is so exquisite. I wish they changed their logo design, though...

[christianj]

Originally Posted by Cozmopak

Grossmann finishing is so exquisite. I wish they changed their logo design, though...

+1. I think the Logo cheapens the look of the watch. They recently changed the logo on a special edition watch and it was so much better. One can only hope they decide to do this on all models moving forward.

https://watchesbysjx.com/2019/07/mor...e-vintage.html

[Cozmopak]

Originally Posted by christianj

+1. I think the Logo cheapens the look of the watch. They recently changed the logo on a special edition watch and it was so much better. One can only hope they decide to do this on all models moving forward.

https://watchesbysjx.com/2019/07/mor...e-vintage.html

Much much better. Grossmann would be a top contender for me if it weren’t for that ghastly logo.

[benlee]

L&H is a small independent brand and makes probably not more than 200 watches. I owned a Frederick III time only watch. Very good build quality on par with ALS.

Both their founders ( one of which was Marco Lang a well regarded watchmaker ) have left the brand and it's probably not a good development for the brand as he was responsibility for most of the creative impetus.

[Cozmopak]

Yes, I’ve heard that Marco Lang left several years ago. I like their designs still.

Grossman movements are gorgeous, but their dial is a little bit too austere for me.

[kunlun]

Lang left in 2019, Heyne left a few years back.

Buying now is not recommended. Let's see if they manage to survive.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Lang left in 2019, Heyne left a few years back.

Buying now is not recommended. Let's see if they manage to survive.

This. You don’t need to think any more, it should be off the radar for near term.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Lang left in 2019, Heyne left a few years back.

Buying now is not recommended. Let's see if they manage to survive.

What a load of f***ing bollocks! You’ve just written off a perfectly fine company without any good reason.
L&H are part of Tempus Arte Group, which includes movement and parts manufacturer UWD.

Has Speake-Marin disappeared since Peter left them almost 3 years ago?
And Mirko Heyne hasn’t been around since 2002, a year after the brand first formed, which is far more than “a few years”.

If I’m correct, Jens Schneider is running the company, having come from Moritz Grossmann, and been deeply involved with the Zeitwerk whilst at Lange & Sohne.

Unless you know something none of the rest of us do, then stop peddling nonsense about the brand’s impending demise.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by PJ S

What a load of f***ing bollocks! You’ve just written off a perfectly fine company without any good reason.
L&H are part of Tempus Arte Group, which includes movement and parts manufacturer UWD.

Has Speake-Marin disappeared since Peter left them almost 3 years ago?
And Mirko Heyne hasn’t been around since 2002, a year after the brand first formed, which is far more than “a few years”.

If I’m correct, Jens Schneider is running the company, having come from Moritz Grossmann, and been deeply involved with the Zeitwerk whilst at Lange & Sohne.

Unless you know something none of the rest of us do, then stop peddling nonsense about the brand’s impending demise.

I don't think anyone here completely wrote off L&H. A co-founder and major influence in the company recently left, I don't think it's unreasonable to advise a wait and see approach.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I don't think anyone here completely wrote off L&H. A co-founder and major influence in the company recently left, I don't think it's unreasonable to advise a wait and see approach.

100%.

As a real buyer who did a lot of groundwork in the last 18 months or so in terms of talking to owners, talking to the brand and several dealers and seeing the watches in the metal (not an easy thing to do) MY reaction to Marco leaving was let’s wait and see. I think that’s all we are really saying.

The change 100% impacted my intended purchase and I was (am) pretty happy that I did not have an order in at the time.


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[PJ S]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I don't think anyone here completely wrote off L&H. A co-founder and major influence in the company recently left, I don't think it's unreasonable to advise a wait and see approach.

There’s a fundamental difference between advising caution versus not buying.
If every potential customer of the brand took that approach, what exactly do you think will happen?
What exactly are you waiting on, and for how long before the green light is given?

Bear in mind that Marco was generally unhappy since 2013, it took him long enough to move out.

https://watchesbysjx.com/2019/12/mar...tchmaking.html

Moreover, since that time, no-one questioned Lang & Heyne’s viability, with the same 50-60 watches made each year.

If Jens can work for GUB, AL&S (especially on the Zeitwerk), and MG, then I think it’s fair to say that he has a fair idea of what he’s doing.
I don’t see any grounds for the pessimism being displayed.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by PJ S

There’s a fundamental difference between advising caution versus not buying.
If every potential customer of the brand took that approach, what exactly do you think will happen?
What exactly are you waiting on, and for how long before the green light is given?

Bear in mind that Marco was generally unhappy since 2013, it took him long enough to move out.

https://watchesbysjx.com/2019/12/mar...tchmaking.html

Moreover, since that time, no-one questioned Lang & Heyne’s viability, with the same 50-60 watches made each year.

If Jens can work for GUB, AL&S (especially on the Zeitwerk), and MG, then I think it’s fair to say that he has a fair idea of what he’s doing.
I don’t see any grounds for the pessimism being displayed.

There's a fundamental difference between a wait and see approach and advising to never purchase from that brand. The fact remains, we do not know the impact of his departure. This goes for any company, when a CEO (especially if they were a founder) steps down the market takes a pause. There is trepidation. It's the sensible approach.

You're taking these reasonable pieces of advice oddly personal.

[Cozmopak]

Shame. I like their stuff

[christianj]

Originally Posted by Cozmopak

I like their stuff

+1

Not many around and with one AD in the US they aren't easy to look at here and buying sight unseen is a no go with me. I travel to Germany a lot and speak fluent German so I might try to source one there but even in their home country there are only 3 ADs. My AD in CT had a pre-owned one a while ago for a good price but I was asleep at the wheel.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by christianj

+1

Not many around and with one AD in the US they aren't easy to look at here and buying sight unseen is a no go with me. I travel to Germany a lot and speak fluent German so I might try to source one there but even in their home country there are only 3 ADs. My AD in CT had a pre-owned one a while ago for a good price but I was asleep at the wheel.

When they produce ~60 pieces annually, just like RW Smith and Kari Voutilainen, how many dealers would you expect them to have?

[christianj]

Originally Posted by PJ S

When they produce under 100 pieces annually, just like RW Smith and Kari Voutilainen, how many dealers would you expect them to have?

I would think that in a market like the US there would at least be 2 ...one on each coast. Voutilainen has 2 in the NY/CT area and other smaller manufacturers like Laurent Ferrier, Grönefeld and Urban Jurgensen have a couple. I would at least expect one of the 4 well known dealers of independent brands on the east coast like Manfredi, Cellini, Govberg or Pulli to be an AD.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by christianj

I would think that in a market like the US there would at least be 2 ...one on each coast. Voutilainen has 2 in the NY/CT area and other smaller manufacturers like Laurent Ferrier, Grönefeld and Urban Jurgensen have a couple. I would at least expect one of the 4 well known dealers of independent brands on the east coast like Manfredi, Cellini, Govberg or Pulli to be an AD.

I’d hardly call Manfredi a second KV dealer – they’ve one model listed on their website!
LF, UJ, and Gronefeld all produce more watches than L&H does, and maybe that’s been Marco’s failing – he was happy with who came to him rather than going to dealers to try to get his brand picked up.
I know he talked a good game of wanting to increase output to 100 pieces annually, but never did it. Perhaps what Jens will do, as well as find more dealers, if they feel they need them.
It could well be that the vast bulk of their sales are direct to clients, who want certain elements customised.

[Jay (Eire)]

And just to add L&H without either L or H does not have the same attraction. The same as Journe without FP would not. This is absolutely part of the appeal in these watches.

I am not saying that the watches will not be as good or have the same quality if and when their namesakes depart. BUT let’s not kid ourselves that the watchmaker him or herself IS a large part of the story and attraction.


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[Cozmopak]

That’s a very valid point about proceeding with some trepidation when the founders are no longer present even though they are in the name of the brand.

If there’s a material difference in quality, then that would definitely turn me off; however, if they are still producing high-quality pieces, that’s all that matters to me. My decisions are based on aesthetics.

After doing your groundwork, did you feel as though the quality was declining after the departure of the founders? Jens Schneider, from what I understand, is a skilled craftsman.

[Cozmopak]

This is a pretty nice watch, regardless of the instability in leadership:

https://www.worldoftime.de/en/lang.heyne/-27393.html

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Cozmopak

This is a pretty nice watch, regardless of the instability in leadership:

https://www.worldoftime.de/en/lang.heyne/-27393.html

In case it’s handy for you to visit – https://www.nyjchicago.com/product/4...no-4-rose-gold

I also recall seeing an image of the Frederich III’s bridge having been custom engraved.

https://horologium.com.au/2015/09/15...friedrich-iii/

[Cozmopak]

Originally Posted by PJ S

In case it’s handy for you to visit – https://www.nyjchicago.com/product/4...no-4-rose-gold

I also recall seeing an image of the Frederich III’s bridge having been custom engraved.

Great find. I have family in Chicago and visit frequently.

[Justindo]

They are gorgeous watches and extremely high quality pieces, regardless of who is or isn't at the company. I wouldn't mind having one but there are too many other watches on my list and, sadly, not enough discretionary funds.