Rolex to AP?

[Bourbon]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

It does articulate something, but probably the opposite of what you think. Rolex makes 1mn watches per year. AP makes 40,000...

Supply can be an outcome of those that can afford/justify/stomach the price of the typical offering (demand).

[Dave from NYC]

I agree with Ash. This talk of AP not being tool watches. Sure, a royal oak in rose gold on croc. Maybe not. But a ROO or Diver in titanium on a rubber?

I've been beating up a ROO RC since 2011 and it's never missed a beat. (I have other APs I would not treat this way...)

But yes, some steel sports oysters do feel quite substantial.

I love both brands.

[Muxi]

I wear my Royal Oak more than my Daytonas.

[DoxaDavid]

Originally Posted by djgallo

You can believe whatever you want. I guess if you like over paying for a over hyped over-designed, and overly polished watch with screw heads it’s your choice.

You can’t compare AP to Rolex history, and it’s not much different than many of the so called high end “haute horology” watches being produced by the smaller boutique manufactures. AP may be known to .000010 of the population.

Alternatively, Rolex is well known by 99% of the public. It has the historical lasting design, quality, and proven performance over the years.

It’s apple’s and oranges, if you like the small niche AP watch line, no problem...there are many others that don’t find them interesting at all.

So to sum up your diatribe, an AP is a step down because YOU are not a fan of the design of the Ro and Roo models (assume this is your screw head reference to the Genta design), their history has no bearing and primarily because Rolex has a greater name recognition with the ma and pa, joe regular public right?

To follow your line of thought, a Chevrolet Corvette C7 is the better car than a McLaren 720. I mean 99.9 percent of folks across the great US of A knows what a Vette is and that same percentage have no idea what a McLaren is, it’s significance to the automotive world, racing history, technology or value. Maybe even those same folks might think a new Vette is better looking as well.

So in your world, a Corvette is better than a 720...except it’s not. Not to say a C7 isn’t a great car, a bargain for the performance and reliability.

But if you KNOW cars, there is almost no one on the planet who wouldn't state emphatically that a McLaren is the finer vehicle by a long shot. This doesn’t diminish how fine a car a Corvette is, only it isn’t a McLaren.

That is AP and Rolex summed up. You may not like the design of some models or their price points or their lack of name recognition to the masses but there is little doubt that an AP is not a step down from a Rolex.

[maciej]

Originally Posted by DoxaDavid

So to sum up your diatribe, an AP is a step down because YOU are not a fan of the design of the Ro and Roo models (assume this is your screw head reference to the Genta design), their history has no bearing and primarily because Rolex has a greater name recognition with the ma and pa, joe regular public right?

To follow your line of thought, a Chevrolet Corvette C7 is the better car than a McLaren 720. I mean 99.9 percent of folks across the great US of A knows what a Vette is and that same percentage have no idea what a McLaren is, it’s significance to the automotive world, racing history, technology or value. Maybe even those same folks might think a new Vette is better looking as well.

So in your world, a Corvette is better than a 720...except it’s not. Not to say a C7 isn’t a great car, a bargain for the performance and reliability.

But if you KNOW cars, there is almost no one on the planet who wouldn't state emphatically that a McLaren is the finer vehicle by a long shot. This doesn’t diminish how fine a car a Corvette is, only it isn’t a McLaren.

That is AP and Rolex summed up. You may not like the design of some models or their price points or their lack of name recognition to the masses but there is little doubt that an AP is not a step down from a Rolex.

Eloquently put and spot on!

[AK797]

Originally Posted by TankTom

Thanks for all of your comments - much appreciated. More specifically, I’m looking at the blue dial 15450 but would need to shift the 126710 BLNR and add £8k cash on top. The RO is retail.

I'd def make that move, obvs hunt around for the best deal you can find.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by AshAP

Holding both in my hand, the Rolex feels like it could break quite easily, this talk of it being a strong tool watch compared to an AP is misguided.


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Yup, my ROO is like a tank, and I have the RG one and it's so far been bullet proof inside and out, and was my PM beater for a while even over my PM Rolexes.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by djgallo

You can believe whatever you want. I guess if you like over paying for a over hyped over-designed, and overly polished watch with screw heads it’s your choice.

You can’t compare AP to Rolex history, and it’s not much different than many of the so called high end “haute horology” watches being produced by the smaller boutique manufactures. AP may be known to .000010 of the population.

Alternatively, Rolex is well known by 99% of the public. It has the historical lasting design, quality, and proven performance over the years.

It’s apple’s and oranges, if you like the small niche AP watch line, no problem...there are many others that don’t find them interesting at all.

Best to stay silent and have the world think you are a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

[schoolboy]

Originally Posted by kauebm

AP is high horology, it crosses a line from which watchmaking really becomes a form of art. The bracelet on the royal oak is a thing of beauty, there is nothing like it anywhere, from anyone, imo.

I didn’t know that AP is considered “high horology”

That’s exciting to hear

There are no AP dealers close to me, so when I travel I will make sure to stop by one

But I have seen a AP RO bracelet in person and it was on a whole other levers from Rolex

[schoolboy]

Originally Posted by Reign

Rolls Royce

In short it’s been a complete experience from the very first watch purchased

Rolls Royce? I’m not even going to pretend to know what that is. I know they make expensive cars but that’s about it haha

Anyway, I like your comment about AP being an experience. Sounds like fun!

[DoxaDavid]

Originally Posted by SMD

Best to stay silent and have the world think you are a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

One of my favorite sayings!

[thekman]

I definitely wear my Rolex watches more and even daily one of them, but when I wear that Royal Oak....that thing is something else.

[Dave from NYC]

@david doxa

vette vs mclaren. great analogy. agree w/ you 100

[Dino944]

I own and enjoy both. The RO is expensive, however the longer you own it, the more you notice certain nuances about the design, and appreciate what it takes to make one. In addition the fit and finish are superb. It is easy to see and understand why a steel RO costs more than most other steel watches. Knock on wood, my RO hasn't given me any problems and has run strong for more than 7 years, often as a daily wearer.

Rolex does a fantastic job of making large quantities, of reliable, rugged watches. Their fit and finish are good, but that has never been the focus of their products, and it is not on the same level as that of AP, PP, VC, or Lange. I would be more apt to wear a steel Rolex for strenuous physical activities, but that is to some degree because I wouldn't wear a watch that costs over $20K for high impact activities (I wouldn't wear an all gold Daytona, GMT, and Submariner for activities that might scrape or dent them).

As I said at the beginning, I own and enjoy both. I think they can easily co-exist in the same collection. Both brands offer some great watches. Wishing you luck with you decision.

[Fort Rolex]

I have 3 Rolex watches I love dearly and just added a new RO 15500

You should own both but the AP is a different feeling. The bezel, dial, and bracelet are, to me, on another level

[jestrada]

Originally Posted by TankTom

Thanks for all of your comments - much appreciated. More specifically, I’m looking at the blue dial 15450 but would need to shift the 126710 BLNR and add £8k cash on top. The RO is retail.

It seems from your answer that it’s an “either-or” predicament which would eliminate the option of owning both brands right now (that’s the best case scenario imo as truly, the BLNR and the RO are quite different and should easily co exist in any collection).

If this is the case, I’d do that trade and just try to acquire the BLNR down the road (that is, if you still want that particular model eventually; It may get easier too as it seems that the BLNR is starting to lose some of its hype). Rolex is the more popular/hyped brand which gets most attention even from non-WIS types and it also has the higher value retention but from a purely horological stand point (i.e. craftsmanship, design, etc.), AP>Rolex imo.



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[TankTom]

Thanks so much everyone’s comments - much appreciated. I’ve had the call for the blue dial RO and am torn - do I sell my 126710 BLNR and add £8k to fund the RO (I also have a steel sub which I will keep) or decide that the RO is just not worth the BLNR and £8k? I’ve never owned AP and am reluctant to pass on this 15450 blue in case another one never comes along! I appreciate everyone’s circumstances are different but I guess I’m asking: would you do this trade? Thanks again

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by TankTom

Thanks so much everyone’s comments - much appreciated. I’ve had the call for the blue dial RO and am torn - do I sell my 126710 BLNR and add £8k to fund the RO (I also have a steel sub which I will keep) or decide that the RO is just not worth the BLNR and £8k? I’ve never owned AP and am reluctant to pass on this 15450 blue in case another one never comes along! I appreciate everyone’s circumstances are different but I guess I’m asking: would you do this trade? Thanks again

I think if you’re new to AP that you should see the other 15450 dial colours before setting your heart on the blue dial. You can get the other dial colours for 25% less than a blue

I would also take a look at the older 14790ST which are 36mm and thinner. These can be had around 20k max for a blue dial I believe and in the mid teens for the other dials

[TankTom]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

I think if you’re new to AP that you should see the other 15450 dial colours before setting your heart on the blue dial. You can get the other dial colours for 25% less than a blue

I would also take a look at the older 14790ST which are 36mm and thinner. These can be had around 20k max for a blue dial I believe and in the mid teens for the other dials

Thanks. Seen them all - blue wins by a mile. Don’t like white and grey looks washed out IMO. Is the 15450 worth that much more than the BLNR in your opinion?

[P2725TMB]

Originally Posted by AshAP

Holding both in my hand, the Rolex feels like it could break quite easily, this talk of it being a strong tool watch compared to an AP is misguided.


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I'm not sure this is all togther fair, Ash.

Being objective I own AP and Rolex and none of my watches get heavy treatment, as I prefer to keep them as scratch free as possible. However, of the Rolex I currently own (YM2, SD, Pepsi and Deep Blue) none feel in any way like they could break quite easily (although I can't speak for a Daytona as I don't have one).

Whilst I certainly don't view my APs as in any way fragile I personally don't feel they could take the potential beating any of my Rolex could. I imagine on my Rolexes the weakest 'link' will be the Jubilee bracelet on the Pepsi.

But then I'm not about find out by putting this comparison to the test...

[AK797]

Originally Posted by P2725TMB

I'm not sure this is all togther fair, Ash.

Being objective I own AP and Rolex and none of my watches get heavy treatment, as I prefer to keep them as scratch free as possible. However, of the Rolex I currently own (YM2, SD, Pepsi and Deep Blue) none feel in any way like they could break quite easily (although I can't speak for a Daytona as I don't have one).

Whilst I certainly don't view my APs as in any way fragile I personally don't feel they could take the potential beating any of my Rolex could. I imagine on my Rolexes the weakest 'link' will be the Jubilee bracelet on the Pepsi.

But then I'm not about find out by putting this comparison to the test...

I have both of those models and I took Ash to mean the D500 is rather small and dainty by comparison and therefore seemingly vulnerable whereas in reality it is not as all Rolexes are sturdy, and while the AP RO has vulnerabilities the ROO, esp on rubber has far less.

[Token74]

My Daytona gets a proper kicking and it handles it with no issues.

I don’t really get the concern about AP’s though. My Diver feels about as solid as it could, and whilst I hear all this stuff about fragile movements and then going wrong all the time, I’ve not experienced that with any of mine, and I don’t see many actual examples on here!

I keep hearing/reading people say “AP are more fragile, although I’ve never had an issue”...so is this just myth!

The AP polished bezels will of course scratch, but that is just cosmetic.

I’m going on two ski trips with my Diver this year, so let’s see how that goes!


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[V25V]

Originally Posted by TankTom

Thanks so much everyone’s comments - much appreciated. I’ve had the call for the blue dial RO and am torn - do I sell my 126710 BLNR and add £8k to fund the RO (I also have a steel sub which I will keep) or decide that the RO is just not worth the BLNR and £8k? I’ve never owned AP and am reluctant to pass on this 15450 blue in case another one never comes along! I appreciate everyone’s circumstances are different but I guess I’m asking: would you do this trade? Thanks again

I have owned 2 BLNR's both went out the door. Once you get into AP/PP, I suspect you will move on fairly quickly from most of their offerings. Do it and you can always get the BLNR back. 15450 blue is great if you are looking for that mid-size.

[DoxaDavid]

Originally Posted by TankTom

Thanks. Seen them all - blue wins by a mile. Don’t like white and grey looks washed out IMO. Is the 15450 worth that much more than the BLNR in your opinion?

Here is the thing, you have very little downside to making the trade. If you do and find the AP isn’t singing to you, it’s a very desirable and sought after piece. You will likely not have any issue selling or trading it for another model including finding a BLNR with cash back to you.

My .02.

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by TankTom

Thanks. Seen them all - blue wins by a mile. Don’t like white and grey looks washed out IMO. Is the 15450 worth that much more than the BLNR in your opinion?

If you love the blue 15450 then it's worth it. Everyone will have their own preferences. Just be sure that the blue is worth the huge premium to you vs. other colours. I think people get carried away with wanting blue ROs just because it's what the market or social media hypes up as the hot watch to have instead of what they may actually enjoy more.

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by DoxaDavid

Here is the thing, you have very little downside to making the trade. If you do and find the AP isn’t singing to you, it’s a very desirable and sought after piece. You will likely not have any issue selling or trading it for another model including finding a BLNR with cash back to you.

My .02.

Both pieces are liquid; the BLNR more so. The downside to trading back will be the bid/ask spread from a dealer in both directions

[TankTom]

Originally Posted by DoxaDavid

Here is the thing, you have very little downside to making the trade. If you do and find the AP isn’t singing to you, it’s a very desirable and sought after piece. You will likely not have any issue selling or trading it for another model including finding a BLNR with cash back to you.

My .02.

Thanks. However, I would lose a few grand selling the AP but I suppose that's the opportunity cost!

[Vipes]

Originally Posted by DoxaDavid

Here is the thing, you have very little downside to making the trade. If you do and find the AP isn’t singing to you, it’s a very desirable and sought after piece. You will likely not have any issue selling or trading it for another model including finding a BLNR with cash back to you.

My .02.

Spot on! No risk trying the AP since it is a hot piece right now.

[DoxaDavid]

Originally Posted by TankTom

Thanks. However, I would lose a few grand selling the AP but I suppose that's the opportunity cost!

Possibly yes. Would depend on if you sold yourself or used as a trade where a dealer would discount to make a profit.

But, as you say, a potential opportunity cost only if you really didn't like the AP.

Perhaps the seller will give you a 3-7 day return on it while holding your BLNR? Let you handle it and as long in same condition, return if you don't like it?

Can't hurt to ask.

[TankTom]

Originally Posted by DoxaDavid

Possibly yes. Would depend on if you sold yourself or used as a trade where a dealer would discount to make a profit.

But, as you say, a potential opportunity cost only if you really didn't like the AP.

Perhaps the seller will give you a 3-7 day return on it while holding your BLNR? Let you handle it and as long in same condition, return if you don't like it?

Can't hurt to ask.

Would an AP boutique go for this?