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31 August 2022, 10:02 AM | #31 | |||
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https://professionalwatches.com/a-lange-sohne-l051-1/ as does this article on the 1815: https://www.europeanwatch.com/blog/a...36-050-review/ Do you have some reference saying that it does not? Quote:
https://www.watchprosite.com/patek-p...8591.13005836/ It was suggested that only the complicated big $$$ pieces are hand finished. I don't know if that is proven or not. |
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31 August 2022, 10:56 AM | #32 | |
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For me, simply, the PP is simpler and dressier, but the ALS is leaps ahead overall and a no-brainer choice for me |
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31 August 2022, 11:13 AM | #33 |
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I do not, but that has always been my understanding. Interestingly, Lange itself doesn't seem to provide clarity in its movement description on its website. Others at WPS have also said it's free-sprung. In any event, I am happy to be wrong here as that makes the Lange movement even better.
Regarding hand finishing of the Patek movement, I'd want further confirmation, but thanks for the reference. That would be quite the scandal in my mind if nothing on the Patek movement is hand finished. Cheers, John |
31 August 2022, 12:52 PM | #34 |
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The 6119 is extremely beautiful, but one that doesn't appear great in photo as in real life. The sheer elegance of the 6119 can't be matched, with its curvy silhouette and the balance of elements on the dial
The patek movement is technically superior than the lange no question about it, but we've known for years patek absolutely cut crazy amount of corners especially on entry level models. This new movement could have been a showstopper d but they decided to cut crazy corners its a huge waste of its potential. I'd still look at the patek movement than a movement where the 3/4 plate itself occupied most of the scenery, but to each his own. |
31 August 2022, 01:00 PM | #35 | ||
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I've always said this, patek milks the entry level buyers (read: anything less than a grand complication) like no tomorrow, but I did succumb to the 6119 after seeing it in person Anyone who claimed its too cluttered need to see this watch in person, its a miracle how they create a harmony with tnhe aesthetic features put in. If ones an absolute minimalist then yea, it'll be an eyesore, but I for one loved the sophistication but ultimately harmonious design of the dial |
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31 August 2022, 01:16 PM | #36 |
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If you check out Tim Mosso’s review of the 6119G on YouTube (in addition to many of his other Patek reviews), he says the 30-255 is “started by mechanical means but finished by hand.” As far as reliability as a source goes, both he and his company, Watchbox/Govberg, are quite involved as both resellers/ADs of Patek and appear to have a good relationship with the company.
The answer is basically a combination of machine + hand finishing for most Pateks that are not the highest end complications. |
31 August 2022, 03:11 PM | #37 | |
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31 August 2022, 06:33 PM | #38 |
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I will add a few words about my UP / Down 234.032. The L051.2 movement with manual winding operates at a frequency of 21,600 Hz, and the second hand always stops at 12 o'clock when the power reserve is exhausted. This makes it very easy to start the sleeping mechanism. For the first three months after the purchase, mine was very precise, deviating less than 1 second / day. Then something happened because it accelerated to + 8s / day. So I sent it to Germany for regulation. He came back after 2 months perfectly adjusted. A year has passed since his return, and he is still accelerating on average + 1s / day.
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31 August 2022, 07:36 PM | #39 |
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About hand or mechanical finishing, it depends on what definition we give. Nowadays, watchmakers often use a mechanical tool that they manipulate by hand.
However, you can have a look at Patek's videos here:https://www.patek.com/en/company/sav...ion-to-details Take a look at the one called "Hand-finishing the movement components (Caliber CHR 29-535 PS)": you'll see when they use machine and when they use hands. The beginning is CNC (to round off the bridges for instance) but the last finishing is made manually but with a machine (perlage, chamfering, buffing edges). I'm not sure for the Cotes de Geneve. I don't know what ALS does, but it looks better indeed. However, they don't have the same volumes to manage. I guess that if Patek was producing 5K watches (like ALS), they would do it differently (but the price and availability of a Patek wouldn't be the same). That's why choosing a brand or another is also about what we are looking for. During your watchmaking journey, your tastes might change as well. We are nerds and appreciate looking at details but those watches work very well and are well finished overall. Take the one that sings to you and you'll be able to replace it in the future if you feel so. There is no mistake in either brands imho. My pleasure :) |
31 August 2022, 11:34 PM | #40 | |
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1 September 2022, 01:43 AM | #41 |
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I did watch Tim's video and he says "undoubtedly finished by hand". This, ironically, does introduce some doubt haha. If he knew this for a fact it doesn't seem like he'd phrase it that way. This sounds more like he's looking at it, thinking it looks very nice, and considering it is the likes of Patek he's concluding that it's "undoubtedly" finished by hand. That could be too much reading between the lines on my part, but I guess I'm still not 100% certain either way...
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1 September 2022, 03:09 AM | #42 |
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I don't think I would ever be offered a 6119 at an AD, so I went grey for the ALS 1815 up/down and got it for a pretty significant discount over current list. Fantastic dress watch.
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1 September 2022, 05:45 AM | #43 |
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love the ab/auf. My grail is the referenzuhr in platinum.
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2 September 2022, 02:55 AM | #44 |
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2 September 2022, 03:42 AM | #45 |
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I find that the strong points of each watch, fill up the weakness of each other. It would be nice to have both in the box, but if I had to choose just one... I would have to go with the 6119 for its more dynamic nature.
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2 September 2022, 05:47 AM | #46 | |
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Here is another dilemma, perhaps one you specifically can help with. Your gray suede strap shows how versatile the white gold 6119 can be. And something about the Lange seems more casual to begin with, even in rose gold. But my issue is that I'm really drawn to the rose gold 6119. If you could only have one, and it had to be rose gold, would you still go for the 6119? Or is it only the white gold 6119 which you feel could stand alone? |
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2 September 2022, 11:59 AM | #47 | |
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Do you mean RG in either form of the 6119 or the 1815 Lange? The 6119R is, for me, a little less dynamic (in the sense that the dial doesn’t so much change in different lighting — and why I went with 6119G in the first place). You’re right; the Lange feels more casual while the PP feels more dressy. But I also feel it is easier to dress down the 6119 than dress up the Lange. So for me; 6119G, 6119R then 1815. |
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2 September 2022, 12:57 PM | #48 | |
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On the topic of movement finishing... I reached out to Tim Mosso and he was gracious enough to write me a long reply. He indicated that the 6119's movement is absolutely, without question, hand finished. He's louped it himself and can see the telltale signs. So perhaps some of the "PP really sticks it to the entry level buyers" stuff is a bit exaggerated. |
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2 September 2022, 01:18 PM | #49 |
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2 September 2022, 08:02 PM | #50 | |
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About the 6119R and straps, if it was for myself, I would go to a strap maker and have a full look at their offerings (even the ones I don't consider in the first place). If you're too far away from a shop, I would consider Suede (even if I think it may not age very well) with: Electric blue (works very well with yellow and rose gold) From dark to medium to light grey Caramel/beige The choice of the right nuance might make the difference from nice to... not nice. Ostrich or Shark materials might look nice (although require a little time to get used to) and more casual. |
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2 September 2022, 11:42 PM | #51 |
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Lange, I’m a watch lover that knows only a little about watches, my likeness mostly from visual design, so my call might not be valid
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3 September 2022, 04:02 PM | #52 | |
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3 September 2022, 04:43 PM | #53 |
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I have the 1815 Up/Down, great timepiece, will never part with it. I love the classic pocket watch inspired design.
I like the idea of the 6119 but not a fan of how they laid out the dial, I'm bothered by the dots behind the indices, the railroad track and the sector on the small seconds, whole thing lacks balance and proportion in my eyes. I love the movement though, finally they are producing movements relative to the case size. My biggest pet peeve is Patek's insistence on using tiny movements made in the 70's for <35mm watches in modern 40mm+ cases.
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17 September 2022, 03:35 PM | #54 | |
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17 September 2022, 03:44 PM | #55 | |
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I can understand how people might like the 5196P better but to call the 6119 “a mess”is simply nuts of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but seems crazy to me … how is the 5196R that much better better ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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18 September 2022, 01:45 AM | #56 |
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I am biased! I have the G and I love how the dial looks and how dressy it is, which to me is the point of a three hand dial with the second subdial
The ALS is beautiful but it’s a totally different look and to me not a dress watch!
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18 September 2022, 02:06 AM | #57 | |
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18 September 2022, 02:26 AM | #58 |
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To the OP - I looked at both watches before I bought the 6119R. I was already leaning in the direction of Patek, but I wanted to consider other watches before spending $30k.
Without getting into any technical details, I just felt that the 6119R was a much better looking watch than the Lange. I actually preferred the size of the Lange and the finishing of the movement seemed much more refined than Patek, but the Patek case really spoke to me. I also wanted a really clean dial (I don’t understand what people are saying when there’s too much going on). The hobnail bezel initially also was a negative for me, but it’s became and still is a huge positive now. It really is such a elegant piece of work that dresses up the watch. As far as demand goes, whether it’s “manufactured” or not, it seems the Patek 6119 is just WAY more in demand than Lange 1815. I waited about 6 months for the Patek after registering interest with 2 ADs, one which I had to put a deposit (funnily I ended up getting it from the other AD first that didn’t require a deposit, and then got my deposit back from the other AD). The Lange 1815 on the other hand, I’ve walked into multiple ADs and it’s sitting in the case. Lastly - what dial gives this kind of reflection? |
18 September 2022, 03:27 AM | #59 | |
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Also, you said "without getting into technical details", but by all means feel free to do so. That's precisely the kind of thing I'm here for |
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18 September 2022, 04:17 AM | #60 | |
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Going back to the OP’s original comparison. If I were to pick between these two, I think the 6119 is more “sophisticated” watch. While the 1815 is a very nice watch, it’s a different design language that’s very Lange. Mind you, I appreciate more the features and movement finishing than the design. I personally like watches with power reserve, which is actually a useful complication, so I would have picked the 1815 Up/Down if I was considering for myself. However, just reading OP’s comments and your preferences, my impression of that you prefer something a little more sophisticated. We all pick our own path…
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