Elephant leather?

[Dr.Atom]

¡Hola!
So I went to a local AD today and asked if they had any exotic leather straps... they initially said no but, one of their employees overheard the conversation and said that they recently found an old box that had elephant and ostrich watch straps... the box they came in was old! It had made in west Germany written on the spine. Was elephant leather a thing? Can anyone give me some feedback?

[Dr.Atom]

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[Dr.Atom]

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[Chewbacca]

likely pre-restriction stock. but yes, it WAS a thing at one point.

[Flywheel]

That's wrong.

[slide13]

Yes, it's a thing...or was at least. Not a fan prsonally but "elephant ear" leather is a popular high end wrap option for pool cues. Has a fairly unique texture that is unlike standard cow/calf leather.

[gwalker]

I love my elephant boots!!!! You can still get elephant leather legally. That said it has been a touchy subject on here before.


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[116500LN]

Originally Posted by Flywheel

That's wrong.

Elephants die of natural causes. Also poached for the tusks. Might as well put the hide to good use.

[AJM914]

Interesting

[slide13]

Originally Posted by Flywheel

That's wrong.

I have a similar visceral reaction, but really it's not that different than cow leather. We arbitrarily decide it's okay to treat one species horribly in industrialized farms and slaughter them for food and leather but find it abhorant with another species. In other countries it's abhorant to treat cows the way we do. We shouldn't do it at all...but we do....and I myself partake as I'm not a vegan, even though I sometimes wish I had the strength of will to become one.

[Dr.Atom]

So for those who are in "the know" are those legit elephant leather straps? I have never come across it before and therefore unfamiliar with it.

[gwalker]

Originally Posted by Dr.Atom

So for those who are in "the know" are those legit elephant leather straps? I have never come across it before and therefore unfamiliar with it.

Yes it's real elephant leather. They call that color peat in boots. Not sure about if they call it that with the straps but I can say that the few things I have of elephant leather is very soft and durable. And personally I love the look.


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[arcadelt]

I have one strap that came in a batch buy from a forum seller. Texture is interesting but cannot say I would go out of my way to buy it.

[Corey79]

Originally Posted by slide13

I have a similar visceral reaction, but really it's not that different than cow leather. We arbitrarily decide it's okay to treat one species horribly in industrialized farms and slaughter them for food and leather but find it abhorant with another species. In other countries it's abhorant to treat cows the way we do. We shouldn't do it at all...but we do....and I myself partake as I'm not a vegan, even though I sometimes wish I had the strength of will to become one.

True, but i think the illegal poaching problem complicates things when it comes to material like elephant leather, and the preservation of the species

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[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by slide13

I have a similar visceral reaction, but really it's not that different than cow leather. We arbitrarily decide it's okay to treat one species horribly in industrialized farms and slaughter them for food and leather but find it abhorant with another species. In other countries it's abhorant to treat cows the way we do. We shouldn't do it at all...but we do....and I myself partake as I'm not a vegan, even though I sometimes wish I had the strength of will to become one.

Elephants are endangered while cows are not.

[dddrees]

Yep, I have a pair as well.

[texasmade]

Not illegal if there's a CITES permit or whatever the official name is. Basically means the leather was sourced from an elephant reservation where the elephant was culled from the herd due to age, illness, etc. and not illegally poached.

If the company that manufactured the leather is American or Western European within the past 15 years there's a pretty good chance it was obtained legally

[de66]

About 32yrs ago I was given a souvenir wallet that was stamped with "elephant leather". It was made in thailand. I am not sure if at that time there were ANY restrictions on elephant products, including ivory.
If elephant leather was a hot thing to have back then, then maybe the wallet could, already back then, even have been been made with a fake prodcut declaration.
The wallet was a cheap souvenir item depicting a map of the country it was bought in.
Awareness of how products like this were sourced was not yet very widespread at this time. I remember seeing rolled up "raw" python skins (3-4m in length) readily available on local markets in the middle east.
Times were different back then and things that are considered illegal now, were readily available, legal, or considered normal (right or wrong but that how it was).

In your case you wiuld have to very carfeully chekc restrictions in historic or antique products like this. The seller will maybe have to check their records or try to make some sort of certification in accordance with prevailing laws

[milov]

My feeling is that by maintaining a legal trade in endangered wildlife products you are making it easier for those who operate in the illegal trade.

[Mick P]

Chaps

Fashions and morals forever change.

Back in the Victoria era, it was the done thing for senior ranking officers in the army to have an elephants foot cut off and used in their office as a waste paper basket. There were no worries about preservation of an endangered species back then and these feet were highly polished and considered almost works of art.

Evidently Queen Victoria did not like them and they just "disappeared" overnight.

Regards

Mick

[Abdullah71601]

This thread is getting a bit political. Morality of leather, vegan... this could end badly.

[swils8610]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

This thread is getting a bit political. Morality of leather, vegan... this could end badly.

Agreed. It's seems apparent the straps are quite old and prob came from a diff time/thought process than we are in today.


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[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

This thread is getting a bit political. Morality of leather, vegan... this could end badly.

I'm not vegan and I'm all for raising animals for food and skins in a humane manner. Unfortunately, many of the people working in those facilities don't share the same sentiment.

I agree with another statement that said that these are quite old and from another era so I have no issue with these straps but it still doesn't change the fact that elephants are endangered and should be protected from poachers.

[GoingPlaces]

Originally Posted by milov

My feeling is that by maintaining a legal trade in endangered wildlife products you are making it easier for those who operate in the illegal trade.

I agree. If there is a market...

[BristolCavendish]

Originally Posted by texasmade

Not illegal if there's a CITES permit or whatever the official name is. Basically means the leather was sourced from an elephant reservation where the elephant was culled from the herd due to age, illness, etc. and not illegally poached.

There is also an established CITES timeline cut-off point when it comes to legal elephant ivory. This issue comes up frequently in the acoustic guitar world as there are some folks who prefer elephant ivory (over cow bone) for their headstock nuts, bridges and bridge pins. Fossilized ivory (from prehistoric mammoths and walruses) is often an alternative. Perhaps the real culprits in the illegal trade and sales of elephant ivory are those emanating from the Asian markets who continue to cherish the material.

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

This thread is getting a bit political. Morality of leather, vegan... this could end badly.

It's amazing how just about anything (or everything) can get 'political' these days. The PC world is running rampant.

[Demosthene]

As someone who was born and lived in Africa, elephant leather was essentially not a thing seen or even desirable.

Of the hides that are sold, the USA is the highest consumer by a massive margin.
Between 2003 and 2012 31,226 elephants supplied as many skins, with it increasing at a rate of 797 per year.

So on behalf of the rest of the world, it would be really nice you you guys didn't create a growing market for this stuff!

[NothingToSeeHere]

Originally Posted by gwalker

I love my elephant boots!!!! You can still get elephant leather legally. That said it has been a touchy subject on here before.


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Exactly! You should join my boot thread!!!

[NothingToSeeHere]

Originally Posted by Demosthene

As someone who was born and lived in Africa, elephant leather was essentially not a thing seen or even desirable.

Of the hides that are sold, the USA is the highest consumer by a massive margin.
Between 2003 and 2012 31,226 elephants supplied as many skins, with it increasing at a rate of 797 per year.

So on behalf of the rest of the world, it would be really nice you you guys didn't create a growing market for this stuff!

As someone who was born in America and is part of animal conservation, please do not be discouraged by sillyness. Elephant leather is amazing. Extremely durable. As long as it's harvested in accordance with conservation standards there is nothing to shy away from. Please do not let an agenda scare you away from one of natures many amazing gifts

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by NothingToSeeHere

As someone who was born in America and is part of animal conservation, please do not be discouraged by sillyness. Elephant leather is amazing. Extremely durable. As long as it's harvested in accordance with conservation standards there is nothing to shy away from. Please do not let an agenda scare you away from one of natures many amazing gifts

That should do it...

IBTL

This is a thread that should never have been started. Nothing good about Elephant leather in any way. EOD

[Ruud Van Driver]

Alligators are an endangered species too but no one gets bent out of shape with Panerai for using 'gator skin for straps. However, Panerai do state on their website that the skins are sourced from farmed 'gators specifically bred for purpose.

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with farming elephants for the same reason but as has been said above, what right do we have to decide which animals are deemed acceptable for slaughter and which ones are sacrosanct?