Physical Fitness vs Athleticism

[BristolCavendish]

Originally Posted by Ferdelious

I don't think the 10,000 hour theory can translate into most sports. Size, speed, strength, hand/eye coordination are mostly genetic attributes.

Agreed. Some noteworthy and outstanding examples would include the Matthews clan (3 generations NFL) and the Boone family (3 generations MLB) plus some 2 generation athletic legacies in MLB like Bobby/Barry Bonds and Ken Griffey Sr./Jr..

Along with individual desire and determination, it's probably a safe bet to assume that the two children of Andre Agassi and Steffi Graf have the potential to be pretty good tennis players as well.

There are certain limitations to the 10,000 hour theory. It might be more applicable to scholastic/academic achievement but not in athletics (except for maybe some aerobic-related endeavors like marathons or gym-related outlets like weight-lifting/body building).

[Syed117]

Physical fitness definitely doesn't equate directly to athleticism.

I've always been very athletic if we are talking about natural ability. I played almost every sport growing up. I can pick up a basketball or a tennis racket after years and still play fairly well.

I know plenty of people who are in incredible shape but can't do anything athletic. Terrible coordination and just a general lack of pure physical ability.

That being said, my level of physical fitness right now is atrocious. I'm in terrible shape. I can compete in very short bursts, but beyond that, I'll probably collapse.

In the long run, physical fitness is far more advantageous. At 35, I don't really care that I can still throw a perfect spiral on hit a great backhand. I have no cardiovascular endurance.

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[mementomori1983]

Interesting topic. I both agree and disagree with the OP. While I there are athletes who are naturally gifted with skills, I can also point to athletes who have honed and developed their skills through training. One example that comes to mind is how some of the greatest current and former NBA players utilized strobe-light training to improve hand-eye coordination: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...t-training-nba

Also, while athleticism should serve as the foundation of any sport, it's almost always better if the athlete is physically fit. This is especially true in high-intensity sports like tennis, basketball, and soccer. Endurace allows players to perform at a high level more consistent basis, and over a longer period of time. It shouldn't be an either-or question -- athleticism and physical fitness go hand-in-hand.


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[BristolCavendish]

Originally Posted by Syed117

Physical fitness definitely doesn't equate directly to athleticism...In the long run, physical fitness is far more advantageous.

A good point as former professional athletes don't necessarily live longer than anyone else. Family history/genetics (along with personal lifestyle) also enters into the picture.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by BristolCavendish

A good point as former professional athletes don't necessarily live longer than anyone else. Family history/genetics (along with personal lifestyle) also enters into the picture.

IIRC, a study of former NFL player longevity found that as a population they lived longer than average.

[Cerachrom12]

Originally Posted by Syed117

Physical fitness definitely doesn't equate directly to athleticism.

I've always been very athletic if we are talking about natural ability. I played almost every sport growing up. I can pick up a basketball or a tennis racket after years and still play fairly well.

I know plenty of people who are in incredible shape but can't do anything athletic. Terrible coordination and just a general lack of pure physical ability.

That being said, my level of physical fitness right now is atrocious. I'm in terrible shape. I can compete in very short bursts, but beyond that, I'll probably collapse.

In the long run, physical fitness is far more advantageous. At 35, I don't really care that I can still throw a perfect spiral on hit a great backhand. I have no cardiovascular endurance.

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Wait until you hit 50, like myself.

[THC]

Originally Posted by Cerachrom12

Wait until you hit 50, like myself.

Ha I miss 50 ... 60 now for me but am decently fit ..

[BristolCavendish]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

IIRC, a study of former NFL player longevity found that as a population they lived longer than average.

Are you sure about that? Most studies have shown that the average life expectancy of a former NFL player peaks out at around 59. There are exceptions of course but they represent a descending line on the bell curve.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/7...ior-seau-death

https://lsminsurance.ca/life-insuran...tancy%e2%80%8f

http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/news/the-a...-55-years.html

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by BristolCavendish

Are you sure about that? Most studies have shown that the average life expectancy of a former NFL player peaks out at around 59. There are exceptions of course but they represent a descending line on the bell curve.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/7...ior-seau-death

https://lsminsurance.ca/life-insuran...tancy%e2%80%8f

http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/news/the-a...-55-years.html

I'll need to look it up. There was a lot of coverage during the initial CTE in investigation.

[Beauregard]

Originally Posted by BristolCavendish

He was obviously in better shape than the rest of us combined but when it came to stuff like catching a fly ball, fielding grounders or even hitting a slow-pitched 6-12' arc, he failed miserably.

This is me to a tee. I'm 50 and can easily bench press 300 pounds and regularly run hills carrying a 35lb kettle bell but I am miserable at ball sports, to the point where some of my closest friends play on the same softball and basketball teams and they know better than to offer me a place on either roster.

[josephvman]

A friend of mine did an MLB Fantasy Camp with the Colorado Rockies early this year, and he told me this is far from the truth. He played college ball, and he was shocked at the degree of fitness training and shape the major league players he worked out with were in. Looks can be very misleading.

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

The best example I can think of is major league baseball. All of the players are highly skilled athletes, but many are not especially fit.

[seand442]

I think they can complement each other, but aren't always directly related. I know guys who can run marathons and bench 250-300, but couldn't shoot a basketball or swing a golf club to save their lives.

[Wingman244]

Originally Posted by Ferdelious

I don't think the 10,000 hour theory can translate into most sports. Size, speed, strength, hand/eye coordination are mostly genetic attributes.

I think - especially up to High School atheltics any average kid can make the team. I coached youth lacrosse, and we always told the kids - you put the hours into the wall and anyone can play HS varsity lacrosse. I believe that - have seen it. My daughter was not very atheltic at all, did not have a runners body but literally willed herself to qualify for the Cross Country High School championship by working harder than anyone.

Now getting into college is a whole different matter, but for almost any sport in High School - an average kid - putting in the time and hours can make the team and be a good player.

[morimotom]

Originally Posted by anothernewphone

I have a body-builder looking friend that does "physique" competitions. He's in fantastic shape, looks great, but can't walk more than a few city blocks without getting winded.

He is lean, and has muscle mass, but I would argue lacks fitness.

Metabolic conditioning is critical to one's overall fitness. If he can't walk a block without getting winded he's in horrible shape, but looks good doing it.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by Wingman244

I think - especially up to High School atheltics any average kid can make the team. I coached youth lacrosse, and we always told the kids - you put the hours into the wall and anyone can play HS varsity lacrosse. I believe that - have seen it. My daughter was not very atheltic at all, did not have a runners body but literally willed herself to qualify for the Cross Country High School championship by working harder than anyone.

Now getting into college is a whole different matter, but for almost any sport in High School - an average kid - putting in the time and hours can make the team and be a good player.

In Maryland not everyone makes lax team. Even people who played youth their whole life.

[locutus49]

Natural athletic ability, like intelligence, is distributed on a Gaussian bell curve and is largely due to genetics. Of course training and exercise can improve one's physical abilities, but your body sets the limit and this is why gifted athletes excel in varsity and professional sports.

I am not physically gifted, in fact am probably towards the lower half of the bell curve, but I worked very hard in the military to pass very high standards for certain units. Whereas many of my unit members were so naturally gifted they could run ten miles and do hundreds of pushups and setups without breaking a sweat. Life is unfair that way.

[Wingman244]

Originally Posted by breitlings

In Maryland not everyone makes lax team. Even people who played youth their whole life.

Playing your whole life and hours on the wall are not the same thing. Kids that played their whole life but did little outside of orgnized practices and games did not advance. My son's best friend had his sport court set up as a virtual LAX shooting gallery. He spent 1-2 hours a day - every day, 365 days year on that court. The kid was small, not too fast but the things he could do with his stick were "Thompson-ish" amazing. He is now playing college on scholarship - back "east".

But keep making excuses for the kids on why they did not make the team. Just keep telling them they are probably not good enough, don't have the talent, don't put in the extra time, just tell them to not even try. That will work well.

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by Wingman244

Playing your whole life and hours on the wall are not the same thing. Kids that played their whole life but did little outside of orgnized practices and games did not advance. My son's best friend had his sport court set up as a virtual LAX shooting gallery. He spent 1-2 hours a day - every day, 365 days year on that court. The kid was small, not too fast but the things he could do with his stick were "Thompson-ish" amazing. He is now playing college on scholarship - back "east".

But keep making excuses for the kids on why they did not make the team. Just keep telling them they are probably not good enough, don't have the talent, don't put in the extra time, just tell them to not even try. That will work well.

2 hours a day wont cut it either. I was suggesting some people practiced two hours a day their whole life since 6 and wont make Maryland public high school lax. I would look at georgetown prep vs landon game and ask yourself the question you posed me. Can anyone just practice and will themselves onto Landon varsity LAX and be a good player. No.

https://youtu.be/JNb_ofC71GQ

In WA what you say might be true. But what you are saying isnt true universally therefore its false perhaps especially in MD for LAX. I think it is a nice thought but if you thought about it more you'd realize it isnt true by selecting examples to break your argument. A very weak example would be someone not naturally coordinated but you could select more extreme examples that shatter your argument.

As for the rest of your argument. It is interesting but a point I didnt bring up. Not every kid is going to be a math genius either. In fact most professors with terminal degrees in my math classes were quite aware of this phenomenon (and that they weren't going to come up with anything groundbreaking -- they didnt stop working by any means though). i didnt say don't try. And as much as SJW suggest we are all the same it isnt true, and if you force everyone to be least common denominator you stall society (ayn rand). There are God given abilities that you cannot replicate or overcome. There is a reason why most sprinters look alike and most weight lifting champions look alike, that doesnt mean either will excel in the NFL or tennis. Most biologist aren't good at physics and vice versa. The skills are different and somethings you can't overcome, it is said Einstien had a very bad memory and wrote down most things he wanted to keep track of.

I also think you are discounting natural talent that was not measurable in size and speed. Drew Brees tom brady and Cousins can still throw really well even though they don't measure well but that doesnt mean they dont have natural talent or that anyone could be the next tom brady. theh have natural throwing ability and it sounds like your example has natural ability just not height or size. Im not arguing Cam Newton is going to be the best qb. Just that not everyone can be tom brady or einstien. That doesnt mean dont teach math or enjoy playing football.

[Northcap]

In today's world the whole "athlete" equation is skewed by performance enhancing drugs or otherwise banned medical procedures.

I was a great admirer of Lance and bought into the post cancer body and "I work harder" story lines. In retrospect I should have realized the jump was too great.

In my world of running there are several events, both men's and women's, in which great leaps have taken place over the last 20 years. I suspect many of those records will prove to be tainted.

How do you tell a kid to work hard when others cheat?

[BristolCavendish]

Originally Posted by Northcap

In today's world the whole "athlete" equation is skewed by performance enhancing drugs or otherwise banned medical procedures.

I was a great admirer of Lance and bought into the post cancer body and "I work harder" story lines. In retrospect I should have realized the jump was too great.

In my world of running there are several events, both men's and women's, in which great leaps have taken place over the last 20 years. I suspect many of those records will prove to be tainted.

How do you tell a kid to work hard when others cheat?

In the world of elite athletics and professional sports, everyone is looking for an 'edge'. Those old enough to remember will recall the old East German and Russian women's Olympic track and field teams where the women competitors often looked more like men than their other female counterparts. They were obviously using some sort of chemical/hormonal supplements in addition to their event training.

These performance enhancing drugs are seemingly more effective when a competitor/athlete is already at the top of their game as there are countless performers of lesser abilities who have turned to them, oftentimes to no avail or added success. This is perhaps where the true danger of such substances arise, when they are used as a misguided stepping stone for achieving a higher or unattainable level of performance which doesn't exist due to the individual's lack of (or diminishing) athletic skills relative to his/her field of competitors.

The 'just don't get caught' philosophy appears to be the current mantra as nearly everyday the sports page is reporting someone getting suspended for the usage of performance enhancing drugs (usually in the MLB minor leagues or NFL). Perhaps the next step in athletic performance evolution will be in the field of bionics like that of Col. Steve Austin/Lee Majors. At that point, all sports related records will be threatened.

[encarter13]

I would argue that most gifted athletes are physically fit because they spend so many house practicing and perfecting their craft. The amount of running, lifting , throwing, MOVEMENT in general, leads to physical fitness. Of course, there are exceptions like Prince Fielder, John Daly, etc.

However, physical fitness does not lead to athleticism. I am a CrossFit coach and I can think of several people that can run for hours and lift the entire gym, but they have the hand-eye coordination of a toddler.

As others have said, some people are just born gifted, some people get a boost genetically, and some people just work hard. The ones that have all three of the above are the ones that win gold medals, sign the big contracts, and end up in the HOF.

I would like to think I know something about the topic via personal, professional, and family experiences.

[josephvman]

I think Kenny Powers said it best...


https://youtu.be/De7rbB2bteE