First vintage purchase / All original but one small details

[Dave4D]

Hi guys,

Tracked down a nice 1675 GMT Master near my location at a decent price.

Watch appears to be all original (Long E dial with original lume, red back insert, Joskes bracelet).

Only the GMT hand has been relumed and this detail was disclosed by the seller.

Is this a no go in your opinion? If you were in my position (or if you have been in the past) do you think its something that would bug you in the long run?

I'll have a look at the watch myself tomorrow, in pictures I cannot see a mismatch in lume color between GMT and the other hands. It just glow for a few seconds under UV light whereas the rest of the tritium is not active anymore.

What do you think? Perfect examples are hard to come by I know but maybe this is what I should look for?

[Dan S]

I don't think it should be a deal-breaker for you if you love the watch and the price is right. Old lume can be quite fragile, and as the years pass, it will be increasingly difficult to find watches with perfect original lume in their hands. Of course, it is always the collector's goal to find such watches. But you could buy a watch with perfect lume and lose a chunk the first time you wear it.

[ELLimon]

To me not important, dial case an bezel more important. Hands for the longest time we’re considered consumible. If it bothers you a lot you can source a full set of hands and trade yours for almost the same.

note. With time the resumed hand will keep it’s done and the tritium hands will develop more patina, and difference will be more evident.

[southtexas]

Definitely not a deal breaker!


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[newkidonblock4]

I think in the second picture you can see the hand is a tad more patina'd/darker than the dial/other hands, but I agree with everyone that it shouldn't be a deal breaker.

Also, you could always just be on the lookout for a matching 24hr hand from parts dealers. May take some time but I'm sure eventually you can find a matching 24hr hand.

They only cost a few 100$ as well.

I would confirm to see if those marks under the hour hand in the first pic are marks on the crystal or marks on the dial. Besides that, it looks great.

[Dave4D]

Thanks everyone for sharing your opinion and great advice.

I also thought about sourcing another hand. But in reality, is finding the right color/patina based on online pictures a difficult task? Or is it something part dealers would be able to do for me?

Another part of me don't want this purchase to be a project, guess I'll know when I'll see the watch.

I'll check for marks on the dial, thanks newkidonblock4.

I also noticed end links do not bear any reference number but according to the seller it's normal for Joske's bracelets manufactured in Mexico.

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by Dave4D

Thanks everyone for sharing your opinion and great advice.

I also thought about sourcing another hand. But in reality, is finding the right color/patina based on online pictures a difficult task? Or is it something part dealers would be able to do for me?

Another part of me don't want this purchase to be a project, guess I'll know when I'll see the watch.

I'll check for marks on the dial, thanks newkidonblock4.

I also noticed end links do not bear any reference number but according to the seller it's normal for Joske's bracelets manufactured in Mexico.

You could have that hand re-lumed to match the others.

[swaini3]

It wouldn't bother me if one hand was relumed, if the hands match the dial. As said, since its already relumed and it bothers you, get the GMT hand to relumed to match the others... Me personally, I would wait for a service to get it done.

[springer]

There is a notion from somewhere, don't know where it came from, that lume lasts forever. It certainly does not - most lume becomes fairly unstable after three of four decades and much more unstable after that.

Those with nice original hands are fortunate to have them, although most of these "nice original hands" were probably replaced at some point through the years. There are not many watches out there with nice original hands that are 50 or 60 years old.

The relumed hand is inconsequential in my opinion. It is always nice to have original hands, whether the lume is original or not.

Enjoy your watch!

[swish77]

Agree with above, but I would absolutely use it as a bargaining chip to get a better price.

The mere fact that it's a question for you, means that it is indeed an issue. Not a big one, but one nonetheless. There are collectors who wouldn't buy a watch with ANY relume, on hands or dial, no matter how picky that seems. So, depending on your plans down the road, if you ever want to sell the watch, you'll likely run into the same question about the 24-hour hand from some potential buyers.

Also, as mentioned above, double-check that those scuff marks are only on the crystal, not the dial.

Good luck!

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Dave4D

I also thought about sourcing another hand. But in reality, is finding the right color/patina based on online pictures a difficult task? Or is it something part dealers would be able to do for me?

I wouldn't worry about it. The patina on the dial will develop differently from that of a relumed/donor hand anyway. Even if the colors match initially after relume, sooner or later they'll go in their own directions.

It's certainly not unusual to have a relumed GMT hand on a 1675 - the big lume in the triangle can be quite crumbly (much like the hour hand on a Tudor Snowflake). Definitely not a deal-breaker.

[Rebel]

Not a bother to me.

[alwayshere]

as others have said before - hands and dial all age differently.

My GMT hands are all slightly different colours. Some are darker than others. I wouldn't sweat it. Especially if the price is right.

[RolexGonz]

The dial looks great - the 12 o’clock has a bit of a drip on the bottom… is it possible this is from someone dropping new plots on and not getting it perfect? Newbie question… not making assumptions.

[swaini3]

I would also have a closer look at that 5 oclock lume.

[Old Expat Beast]

I'd be more concerned with the minute hand lume cracking further and crumbling into the movement.

[Dave4D]

Originally Posted by swaini3

I would also have a closer look at that 5 oclock lume.

Here is a better look.

Looks decent to me. Do you see a problem with it?

[miccro]

to my eye - all the hands and the dial look relumed, the package would be a pass from me, but if the watch speaks to you and price is right, that's all that matters.

[miccro]

on closer inspection of the photos - looks like the hand lume has been over painted as have the dial plots

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

I'd be more concerned with the minute hand lume cracking further and crumbling into the movement.

This.

[Dave4D]

Originally Posted by miccro

on closer inspection of the photos - looks like the hand lume has been over painted as have the dial plots

Hey, thanks for your input.

Just for my information, how does one learn to see this kind of details on a vintage dial?

[karleone]

Relumed dial is definitely a deal breaker for me! And if in the future you want to sell it - it will be much more difficult. Plus the hand where tritium is leaving (and can go inside movement or damage dial) is a nay as well!

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by Dave4D

Here is a better look.

Looks decent to me. Do you see a problem with it?

It looks painted. You can see a different color underneath. Best noticed on the first pic you posted.

[Dave4D]

Originally Posted by swaini3

It looks painted. You can see a different color underneath. Best noticed on the first pic you posted.

Thanks, now I see what you meant on the 1st pic.

We do see the same type of feature on 1675 listed on HQmilton as well. Shall we assume these are relumed as well?

In anycase, will check that myself under the loupe later today, will be a good learning experience in any case.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Dave4D

Thanks, now I see what you meant on the 1st pic.

We do see the same type of feature on 1675 listed on HQmilton as well. Shall we assume these are relumed as well?

In anycase, will check that myself under the loupe later today, will be a good learning experience in any case.

Do you have a UV photo of the dial/hands you could post?

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by Dave4D

Thanks, now I see what you meant on the 1st pic.

We do see the same type of feature on 1675 listed on HQmilton as well. Shall we assume these are relumed as well?

In anycase, will check that myself under the loupe later today, will be a good learning experience in any case.

If you're talking about this one here. thats different. This is the white part that's on the dial, that the lume usually covers fully before it flakes of the sides with age or wear etc.. On yours, the lume itself looks like its painted on the top only. Macros, UV pics etc. will eliminate all doubts.

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...-ii-dial-A4529

[Dave4D]

Originally Posted by swaini3

If you're talking about this one here. thats different. This is the white part that's on the dial, that the lume usually covers fully before it flakes of the sides with age or wear etc.. On yours, the lume itself looks like its painted on the top only. Macros, UV pics etc. will eliminate all doubts.

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...-ii-dial-A4529

Thanks for pointing this out, I'm learning new things

Well I saw the watch, didn't sing to me so I passed.

The dial to me looked fine but the hands .. I wasn't so sure. In natural light, their lume was quite different compared to the dial. Not that its an issue, I'm not looking for perfect color match but it bothered me a bit in this case.

Crown looked like a new one as well.

Watch didn't give me the emotion I was expecting On the other hand, jubilee bracelet was superb.

The quest continues. Thanks everyone, I learned new things thanks to your feedback.

[swaini3]

Good move. If you didn't like it, look for another one. Be patient, flawless ones dont come so often but worth the wait and the $$ in the end.

[Dan S]

Just as an FYI, hands and dial lume age differently more often than not. If you find a watch with a perfect match, it is typically a re-lume.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Just as an FYI, hands and dial lume age differently more often than not. If you find a watch with a perfect match, it is typically a re-lume.

Dan, my experience with owning many dozens of various vintage Rolex models is not the same as your assessment. I have owned dozens and dozens of vintage watches where the dial lume and hands matched without issue were not relumed.

Of course there are vintage watches out there with relumed hands and I do find that the artisans repairing these hands usually do a very fine job of matching the hand lume to the dial lume.