904L: softer than plastic!

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by 904VT

Sapphire crystal and ceramic are both ~9 on the Mohs. It takes a lot to impact those levels. More than a microfibre and some debris. It would take something like a pointed metal edge to cause visual damage.

Cool. How about wiping gunk or dust off the brushed bracelet or the case? Is it better to wash with water instead?

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[Tomas Eriksson]

Not sure 316L is better... My Royal oak is a proper scratch magnet, lucky enough covered in scratches all over so not to bothered these days. But the first year hard...

Still... Nothing compares to my gold submariner, Im still convinced it got scratches from just sitting on my watchstand.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Mendota

Cool. How about wiping gunk or dust off the brushed bracelet or the case? Is it better to wash with water instead?

100% better to wash. On any of the metal parts they should be wetted first, never rubbed dry (except for drying post-washing obviously).


I think I'm going to try some kind of cloth, but not a cape cod. I might try a fabulustre or similar. Or maybe some polinum on a microfiber. To the "who cares" crowd, nothing I can say will ever align our thoughts on this. I have watches that I wear mountain biking, watches that I bang around in the garage. Watches that are "nice" but don't get babied. Even my 1 week old DJ41 has already been assigned to the "wear it and don't worry about it" category. And then I have this damn Bluesy. It only comes out for special occasions and when I put it on I want to think "wow, that looks _perfect_". Tool watch? Yes, it is actually. And this tool's particular job is to display a bit of horological perfection on my wrist. I literally put my wrist behind my back as I walk through doorways. I am SO careful with this thing. Again, not with all or even most of my watches, but with this one, yes. So it drives me completely crazy to see this glaring scratch, the only visible imperfection on the entire watch, right at the 8 o'clock position on the case every time I look down at my wrist.

And yes, I could "send it off". But that feeds into the watch holding me hostage mentality, which it currently is clearly doing. I must find some way to be able to maintain it myself that allows me to enjoy it properly.

[rmlovett1]

Been there, and have done the exact same thing. Scratched an Explorer while measuring with the plastic calipers.

[Gerardus]

Honestly, worn watches get scratched..... What's it about???

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Mendota

Cool. How about wiping gunk or dust off the brushed bracelet or the case? Is it better to wash with water instead?

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I wash watches gently in a plastic Tupperware container with distilled water and blue Dawn or clear Palmolive. If you want a product and/or wipe that is a cleaner I hear good things about WristClean. I think wiping dust off gently with a microfiber wouldn't cause any visual damage ever. The gunk though may have grit mixed in and I would avoid wiping if wanting to keep the finish pristine. Use the mild soap and water for gunk imo.

[Chester01]

Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree but no they are not "delicate" and will take far more than you can ever possibly dish out and will outlive you. Full stop. What you see there is not "damage" rather a very minor blemish in the mirror polish on the side of the case.

You have to decide if you want a watch to wear and live in, or simply an object to be taken out, glanced at, and tucked back neatly into the safe similar to a coin collection. They are not coins, wear the heck out of it and enjoy it.

[rolexest]

You should ask @padi56 where you can buy some protective stickers to avoid that from happening again

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Chester01

Sorry, I have to respectfully disagree but no they are not "delicate" and will take far more than you can ever possibly dish out and will outlive you. Full stop. What you see there is not "damage" rather a very minor blemish in the mirror polish on the side of the case.

Ok, take a breath. I don't recall suggesting that the watch no longer told time. But the fact is Rolex goes to great lengths to make these things "pretty" and when they get scratched, that does damage one particular aspect of the overall package. And if they weren't so fragile externally, why does Rolex cover them in 30 stickers before leaving the factory?

Your argument is essentially "if you drag your 911 along the guardrail at a race track there is no damage worth mentioning as long as the fenders aren't rubbing on the tires". Just as with a finely made automobile, some of us would like to have mechanical performance AND aesthetics in full "factory condition".

I also think you are a bit delusional on the mechanical robustness as well. "Take far more than I can possibly ever dish out"... really?? If I dropped the watch one time on a tile floor it would almost certainly need an ambulance ride back to the mothership. Yes, they are pretty resilient - for a device with a couple hundred tiny moving parts - but let's not get crazy here and act like this thing is a g-shock or a hammer.

[Roddypeepa]

Mate, I’ve put on here before I’ve scratched the metal bezel when putting my cold hands in a jacket pocket on a cold day. Polished centre links will be scratched by a paper towel or a cuff button. Polishes well, is very anti corrosion but goodness me it’s easy to mark.


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[Roddypeepa]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

So by that logic if you rub glass on a diamond long enough the diamond will wear away? I don't claim to be an expert in material properties, obviously, but the Mohs scale is literally defined by a material's scratch resistance when in contact with another material. The higher number item should scratch the lower number item and not the other way around. Clearly this didn't pan out in the real world which is consistent with me always getting to learn things the hard way ;)

Anyway, for those who don't care about scratches "nothing to see here"... for those who try to be extra careful with things, here's your heads up that these things are really easy to mar ;)

Moh scale is empirical. It’s a matter of basic science that when two surfaces rub atoms are abraded form
Both. Mohs is just the relative loss of one versus the other. If you think about it tyres wear quicker than asphalt but asphalt still gets worn down over millions of cars and miles. Hardened plastic and polished steel aren’t as far apart as you think. Both will cut you given the right circumstances.


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[Chester01]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Ok, take a breath. I don't recall suggesting that the watch no longer told time. But the fact is Rolex goes to great lengths to make these things "pretty" and when they get scratched, that does damage one particular aspect of the overall package. And if they weren't so fragile externally, why does Rolex cover them in 30 stickers before leaving the factory?

Your argument is essentially "if you drag your 911 along the guardrail at a race track there is no damage worth mentioning as long as the fenders aren't rubbing on the tires". Just as with a finely made automobile, some of us would like to have mechanical performance AND aesthetics in full "factory condition".

I also think you are a bit delusional on the mechanical robustness as well. "Take far more than I can possibly ever dish out"... really?? If I dropped the watch one time on a tile floor it would almost certainly need an ambulance ride back to the mothership. Yes, they are pretty resilient - for a device with a couple hundred tiny moving parts - but let's not get crazy here and act like this thing is a g-shock or a hammer.

They cover them in stickers because like all products that get sold even every cheap ones, they want to show they are new when they leave the showroom, store, or what have you.

I grew up in an era where watches were tools and used to tell time, date, other functions and did not look to the cell phone to do this (and still don’t). I
Spend far more time with my watch and given the watch is attached to my wrist where my car is not, will see more action. That’s what makes a watch more personal. It’s simply with you all the time. It’s not a 911, it’s just a watch.

As for the robustness of the watch lol. I would suggest reading up a bit on the history of the submariner being worn by special forces. My family combined had owned about a dozen Rolex over the years. Mine was serviced after 17 years, and my parents went 25 years. I wear mine mountain biking, basketball, tennis, hiking, etc. my father wore his DD and DJ on the job, and he worked on construction in the field, so uh yea, you watch will be just fine.

If you want to keep it in full factory condition as many do here, they wear their gshocks and keep the Rolex in the safe neatly tucked in and take it out for a few insta pics and then back in. We like our watches acquire some scars along the way.


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[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Roddypeepa

Moh scale is empirical. It’s a matter of basic science that when two surfaces rub atoms are abraded form
Both. Mohs is just the relative loss of one versus the other. If you think about it tyres wear quicker than asphalt but asphalt still gets worn down over millions of cars and miles. Hardened plastic and polished steel aren’t as far apart as you think. Both will cut you given the right circumstances.


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I get it, and I can't disagree with anything you are saying, but there are atoms in air as well and we don't expect to have our watches scratched as a cool breeze blows across them (sand storms excluded). Bergeon movement holders, Witschi timegraphers, and many other tools made to interface with a luxury watch case all have plastic contact points for the sole purpose of, hopefully, being the "more sacrificial" substance as compared to the watch case. But, as you elude to, not all plastic is the same, so these "jeweler's calipers" that ruined my life (mostly joking) likely just have too hard and too sharp of a jaw tip to actually offer any real safety. Lesson learned!!

[Lesnerelli23]

I used to wear a tied leather “bracelet” next to my SubC until I saw all the damage it did to the finish! It may have been dirt or whatever but it had made the polished side look satin almost. I took off the leather and wear my watches by themselves now. I got a cape cod and cleaned it up very nicely and easily.

I’m not a guy worried about scratches generally but that was too much too quick lol. The 904L does scratch up easily for sure!

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Chester01

I grew up in an era where watches were tools and used to tell time, date, other functions and did not look to the cell phone to do this (and still don’t). I
Spend far more time with my watch and given the watch is attached to my wrist where my car is not, will see more action. That’s what makes a watch more personal. It’s simply with you all the time. It’s not a 911, it’s just a watch.

As for the robustness of the watch lol. I would suggest reading up a bit on the history of the submariner being worn by special forces. My family combined had owned about a dozen Rolex over the years. Mine was serviced after 17 years, and my parents went 25 years. I wear mine mountain biking, basketball, tennis, hiking, etc. my father wore his DD and DJ on the job, and he worked on construction in the field, so uh yea, you watch will be just fine.

All I can say is these newer Submariners are far worse than any other watch I've owned in terms of showing obvious wear. I have a 1974 GMT that basically looks perfect unless you put it 1/2" away from your eye. I don't stress about it at all. I have a 10 year old Omega Speedmaster and it's the same deal, it looks 100% pristine at an arms length though upon *very* close inspection I can find marks here and there. Last week in the garage I drug my Seiko diver across a metal ladder rung and thought "oh god, that's going to look bad". Nope, can't really find any damage. But dammit, this new Sub is just ridiculous. I can literally see that one scratch now from 4' away because the rest of the surface is so flat, and so reflective, that it just jumps out at you.

These modern Subs and GMTs are not being built with the Special Forces in mind, let's be serious. And regardless, a Submariner's "super power" is to be able to be waterproof at depth. Try putting your arm 6 inches under water in a swimming pool and smacking it hard against the concrete side, let me know how that goes.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by kieselguhr

When I first started wearing a Rolex years ago, I noticed scuffs on the polished flanks of the case where it meets the cuff of my shirt.

For testing purposes, when I bought a brand new unworn button down long sleeve sealed in a plastic packaging, I rubbed the cuff against the polished side of the Rolex and quickly found the surface to get cloudy with miniature scratches.

That Rolex was a 1601 made of 316L and not 904L by the way.

I never did a deliberate test like you, but I can vouch for how easily 316 steel scratches in real world wearing

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

All I can say is these newer Submariners are far worse than any other watch I've owned in terms of showing obvious wear. I have a 1974 GMT that basically looks perfect unless you put it 1/2" away from your eye. I don't stress about it at all. I have a 10 year old Omega Speedmaster and it's the same deal, it looks 100% pristine at an arms length though upon *very* close inspection I can find marks here and there. Last week in the garage I drug my Seiko diver across a metal ladder rung and thought "oh god, that's going to look bad". Nope, can't really find any damage. But dammit, this new Sub is just ridiculous. I can literally see that one scratch now from 4' away because the rest of the surface is so flat, and so reflective, that it just jumps out at you.

These modern Subs and GMTs are not being built with the Special Forces in mind, let's be serious. And regardless, a Submariner's "super power" is to be able to be waterproof at depth. Try putting your arm 6 inches under water in a swimming pool and smacking it hard against the concrete side, let me know how that goes.

Lol, I can’t speak for the new versions but my 16610 has seen far worse then the side of a swimming pool.


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[kieselguhr]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I never did a deliberate test like you, but I can vouch for how easily 316 steel scratches in real world wearing

Lol! I was just starting my watch enthusiasm at the time and couldn’t believe that fabric could affect steel in such a way!

[904VT]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

All I can say is these newer Submariners are far worse than any other watch I've owned in terms of showing obvious wear. I have a 1974 GMT that basically looks perfect unless you put it 1/2" away from your eye. I don't stress about it at all. I have a 10 year old Omega Speedmaster and it's the same deal, it looks 100% pristine at an arms length though upon *very* close inspection I can find marks here and there. Last week in the garage I drug my Seiko diver across a metal ladder rung and thought "oh god, that's going to look bad". Nope, can't really find any damage. But dammit, this new Sub is just ridiculous. I can literally see that one scratch now from 4' away because the rest of the surface is so flat, and so reflective, that it just jumps out at you.

These modern Subs and GMTs are not being built with the Special Forces in mind, let's be serious. And regardless, a Submariner's "super power" is to be able to be waterproof at depth. Try putting your arm 6 inches under water in a swimming pool and smacking it hard against the concrete side, let me know how that goes.

You'd be surprised that many spec ops still wear 6 digits today. Especially those not on teams. Shawn Ryan gives a nice Rolex run down why on his channel if curious more than my comments. 6 digit will hold up just as well as any 5 digit on a dive. The whole aluminum vs ceramic bezel conversation is just fluff put out by those that haven't actually used.

[SeaAndSky]

They do indeed scratch easily. An inevitable reality if one chooses to actually wear the things. Nice thing is we all control all our minds. Most of us anyway. I chose to not let scratches, dents, dings, and gouges occupy one second of my mental thoughts. Was a very liberating decision. I've come to love patina. They are either tools to tell time or jewelry to us. Mine are definitely tools.

[justin81]

There’s more to it than material hardness. Pressure plays a big role.

[iatacs19]

It's also been my experience that Rolex steel scratches easily on the high polish areas. You won't care or notice after a while, it's mostly a concern when the watch is brand new in pristine condition. Once it loses that virgin status, you won't even bother to check it for scratches.

[Gab27]

Originally Posted by Mendota

So is this bad? I will often breathe a puff of hot air onto the crystal of my watch and then use the inside of my Tshirt or a microfiber cloth and clear off any dust or specs on the crystal, while giving the bezel a quick wipe down if there's any drops of something on it from cooking or whatever. At night I'll use a microfiber cloth and gently and quickly just wipe off any surface crap on the bracelet, case and crystal. Am I potentially swirling and scratching it or dulling the finish? I don't see anything when I look at it, but now's the time to stop before anything happens.

It's probably fine, but if there is a small, hard particle (e.g., silica in sand) either on the inside of your shirt or in the debris already on the watch, it can scratch the stainless components if that particle is being rubbed against the steel (it would be most visible on polished surfaces, same as the polished surfaces on many automotive finishes). The crystal and ceramic bezel would presumably not be bothered by this, however.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Gerardus

Honestly, worn watches get scratched..... What's it about???

Have to agree just cannot understand why some fret about everyday wearing scratches that are easily rectified at normal routine service time.

[Mystro]

Everyday scratches are far different than abuse. Hairlines and “rub marks” are part of the life of the watch. As easy as they occur, they can be erased for the most part so there is no pressure in wearing. Ocd can be a gift and a curse as it helps you hyper focus on certain tasks. The problem becomes when you can’t selectively focus your ocd in the proper context and the ocd sickness runs out of control.

[Reddleader68]

It's likely the plastic jaws on your calipers were made with a glass filled nylon compound and the glass beads or fibers did the scratching. Many engineering grade plastics have glass fibers added to them for strength. Some plastics also have metallic fibers added too.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Everyday scratches are far different than abuse. Hairlines and “rub marks” are part of the life of the watch. As easy as they occur, they can be erased for the most part so there is no pressure in wearing. Ocd can be a gift and a curse as it helps you hyper focus on certain tasks. The problem becomes when you can’t selectively focus your ocd in the proper context and the ocd sickness runs out of control.

Are you referring to the difference between a compulsion and when it crosses the threshold to become a disorder?

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Gab27

It's probably fine, but if there is a small, hard particle (e.g., silica in sand) either on the inside of your shirt or in the debris already on the watch, it can scratch the stainless components if that particle is being rubbed against the steel (it would be most visible on polished surfaces, same as the polished surfaces on many automotive finishes). The crystal and ceramic bezel would presumably not be bothered by this, however.

Just have a look at the windscreen or back window of some cars where there are scratches from the slurry of dust and dirt being continually wiped back and forth by the rubber wiper blades when ever it rains and the glass is not cleaned in a timely manner before the wipers are used.
It virtually the equivalent of using valve grinding paste of the wiper blades.
Silica is everywhere.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Ocd can be a gift and a curse as it helps you hyper focus on certain tasks. The problem becomes when you can’t selectively focus your ocd in the proper context and the ocd sickness runs out of control.

Well said. I've often thought the part of my brain which can't get past a scratch on a watch or a car wheel is the same part that pushes me to try to make furniture I'm building "perfect" even though my friends and family see an obvious (to me) flaw and say "nobody will ever notice". "Good enough" is a rephrasing of "who cares" in my book, and I'm just not wired like that.

But the true joy of the internet is having a bunch of strangers try to convince you that your personality traits aren't as valid as theirs. It would be totally different if I posted a thread titled "do you think I should care about a scratch?". This is not the question I'm asking, because I already know that answer haha.

[Brew]

This is what happens when you try to make a silk purse from a sow’s ear. Perhaps SS is not a good material for luxury items? Much better for forks and spoons, where no one cares.


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