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askdanny · 2 July 2018, 04:48 PM

Now that “retail is the new discount”... I’m looking at buying from an AD but... that sales tax is huge on a Rolex.

I travel often and can easily have my “home” AD ship me a watch to a hotel. Or have the out-of-state AD ship it to my home. Have any of you do it — and have you met dealers who allow you to wear the watch while they ship just the box and papers? If I spend the money, I want my new Rolex on my wrist now

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MinMay · 2 July 2018, 04:55 PM

It varies, depending on the AD. Some might do it...some won't. You need to ask the AD.

If I own an AD, then I wouldn't ship a watch to a "hotel". You can claim "I never received it" or it was "lost or stolen". I would only ship it to the buyer's address.

vipergts66 · 2 July 2018, 04:55 PM

I developed a relationship with a small AD that is now out of state for me. They will sell tax free and overnight to me but require the zip codes to match on delivery address and credit card. Legally they’re required to send the watch and can’t allow you to ship an empty box.

dubins930 · 2 July 2018, 04:56 PM

I live in Washington State, the tax is like 8 percent-ish. I drove down to Portland, stayed in a lovely hotel and still saved like $400 on tax. I don't know about shipping, but even a plane ticket would have saved me money. Your not far out...fly into Oregon and still save a few hundred.

superdog · 2 July 2018, 05:01 PM

Rolex policy is face to face.

But it does happen. Depends on Ad.

Still supposed to pay the piper tho.

train-time · 2 July 2018, 08:19 PM

With the recent Supreme Court ruling on selling to buyers out of state, I imagine after the individual states react to and modify their laws make sure they get their fare share of lost tax dollars, shipping out of state to save the tax will be a thing of the past. The ruling effect more than internet sales.

Abdullah71601 · 2 July 2018, 08:26 PM

You still owe your home state the sales or use tax. The out of state AD doesn't collect tax for your home state, but you are still on the hook to pay it.

It's an honor system at the moment, but if you get caught the system will not look at it as an honest mistake. You'll pay the tax plus fines and their costs to collect.

jrs146 · 2 July 2018, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

You still owe your home state the sales or use tax. The out of state AD doesn't collect tax for your home state, but you are still on the hook to pay it.

It's an honor system at the moment, but if you get caught the system will not look at it as an honest mistake. You'll pay the tax plus fines and their costs to collect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by train-time

With the recent Supreme Court ruling on selling to buyers out of state, I imagine after the individual states react to and modify their laws make sure they get their fare share of lost tax dollars, shipping out of state to save the tax will be a thing of the past. The ruling effect more than internet sales.

This and this ^^^^

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77T · 2 July 2018, 10:29 PM

If it is called a sales tax in your State, then the tax is levied against the seller. So the AD is taxed on sales made in the jurisdiction of their place of business and (now that the Supreme Court ruled) anywhere they consummated a sale remotely via shipping a product.

Remember it is the seller’s responsibility to pay a sales tax. The reason they charge you the tax is so they don’t lose margin in the business.

If the States could trust buyers to pay consumption based taxes, then the seller wouldn’t be in the loop at all. And the term would be “purchases tax”.

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GB-man · 2 July 2018, 10:37 PM

As Abdullah noted you’re still legally required to remit tax to your state. Does it happen though? All the time. Maybe not for long with avenues for new legislation open.

Rolexavidfan · 2 July 2018, 11:17 PM

I was told by an AD that they will still impose sales tax to a buyer whose address happens to be in a place where the out of state AD has a branch.

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gav329 · 2 July 2018, 11:26 PM

Maybe you guys can answer this query. In U.K. we get loads of people from USA and Asia who buy lux goods here including watches then out stupid government gives them 20% tax as a refund. Does that mean they never actually pay tax or do they then get the refund.

I was in USA last year and wanted to buy a new watch however California were going to take my tax, not refund me it then when I would have brought watch to U.K. our greedy government would want tax too.

Can anyone clarify that? Thanks folks

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tyler1980 · 2 July 2018, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gav329

Maybe you guys can answer this query. In U.K. we get loads of people from USA and Asia who buy lux goods here including watches then out stupid government gives them 20% tax as a refund. Does that mean they never actually pay tax or do they then get the refund.

I was in USA last year and wanted to buy a new watch however California were going to take my tax, not refund me it then when I would have brought watch to U.K. our greedy government would want tax too.

Can anyone clarify that? Thanks folks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You dont pay a consumption tax if you are not consuming the product in the UK... you do however pay import duties to the country where the product is going to be used. That is why tourists to the UK get a refund.

You can get a US sales tax exemption if you are exporting it out of the state but you pay it in the state that is is going to or the country it is going to.

Rose Gold · 2 July 2018, 11:34 PM

I have had two watches shipped out of state. My AD has no problem with shipping out of state. One watch was shipped to Oregon which has no sales tax.

Joe

envuks · 2 July 2018, 11:42 PM

I asked to ship my 116710 to ovoid the tax when I bought it from an AD. He was very open to doing this. However, I asked the question if he would ship the box and papers and let me walk out with the watch. I was met with a razzing “that’s illegal” comment from my AD. I deal with the CEO of a mult-chain jewelry store as my AD contact and we have a great relationship.... I ended up folking over the tax and walking out with the watch on my wrist

037 · 2 July 2018, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by envuks

I asked to ship my 116710 to ovoid the tax when I bought it from an AD. He was very open to doing this. However, I asked the question if he would ship the box and papers and let me walk out with the watch. I was met with a razzing “that’s illegal” comment from my AD. I deal with the CEO of a mult-chain jewelry store as my AD contact and we have a great relationship.... I ended up folking over the tax and walking out with the watch on my wrist

Why didn't you simply walk out with the B&P and let them ship the watch?

askdanny · 2 July 2018, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

You still owe your home state the sales or use tax. The out of state AD doesn't collect tax for your home state, but you are still on the hook to pay it.

It's an honor system at the moment, but if you get caught the system will not look at it as an honest mistake. You'll pay the tax plus fines and their costs to collect.

Yep, that’s why the title of my thread is not about avoiding sales tax, but avoiding *local* sales tax.

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ArtNouveau · 3 July 2018, 12:05 AM

With the new court ruling, I agree that the practice of shipping to avoid sales tax will be gone as soon as logistics take effect. It has been routinely done in the past though with little to no consequence. "Honor" aside, most states have bigger fish to fry than chasing down an individual watch purchase to collect taxes.
When I bought my BLNR, the AD offered to ship it to my sister in CA. They would ship it in its coffin, I could take the boxes and papers home. I was too impatient so I paid the tax and walked out with my watch.

envuks · 3 July 2018, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 037

Why didn't you simply walk out with the B&P and let them ship the watch?

Sorry, I might not have been clear. The AD said he would have to ship with watch with the B&Ps to ovoid the tax. He was not willing to just ship the B&Ps

It was all or nothing

037 · 3 July 2018, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by envuks

Sorry, I might not have been clear. The AD said he would have to ship with watch with the B&Ps to ovoid the tax. He was not willing to just ship the B&Ps

It was all or nothing

I'm surprised he wouldn't send you with B&P and ship the watch. I'd still have had it shipped unless you lived too far from the destination address for it to make sense.

mulgogy · 3 July 2018, 12:19 AM

Just going to leave this here...

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/05/b...-tax-case.html

REFZ · 3 July 2018, 12:20 AM

The sales tax in the US is relatively low compared to the VAT you have to pay in Europe.
The VAT in Europe is between 20-25% depending on the country you buy the watch.

Just pay your taxes and don't complain about it if you want to wear a luxury item like a Rolex watch.

uniqueMR · 3 July 2018, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulgogy

Just going to leave this here...

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/05/b...-tax-case.html

Rose Gold · 3 July 2018, 12:57 AM

He had empty crates shipped... significantly different than shipping the actual paintings. I need to read the new law to see if it applies to online purchases only.

Joe

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulgogy

Just going to leave this here...

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/05/b...-tax-case.html

mulgogy · 3 July 2018, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose Gold

He had empty crates shipped... significantly different than shipping the actual paintings. I need to read the new law to see if it applies to online purchases only.

Joe

More of a response to this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by askdanny

and have you met dealers who allow you to wear the watch while they ship just the box and papers? If I spend the money, I want my new Rolex on my wrist now

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samson66 · 3 July 2018, 01:04 AM

How far of a drive is Oregon for you? No sales tax.

Bought my first from an AD in Delaware for that reason

Rose Gold · 3 July 2018, 01:19 AM

I just read the Wayfair Supreme Court ruling found here:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...7-494_j4el.pdf

It is very clear that this ruling is very narrow, and in most cases, will require states to model their tax code after South Dakota’s tax code in order to be covered by this ruling. Additionally, South Dakota’s law allows a seller with less than $100k worth of sales in a state not to pay taxes.

I suspect that many ADs do not ship $100k worth of watches to any particular state... my AD in NC shipped zero dollars into Arizona before my purchase this year.

To summarize this succinctly; this narrow ruling will require MANY years to flesh out the details, more rulings as states change their laws and respond to lawsuits related to the Wayfair ruling. ANY AD which references Wayfair as a reason not to ship a watch to another state is simply being lazy. EVEN if Wayfair were to apply (which in most cases it will not), the purchaser is required to pay the taxes independent of whether or not the seller collects the tax.

Joe

eltonbalch · 3 July 2018, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samson66

How far of a drive is Oregon for you? No sales tax.

Bought my first from an AD in Delaware for that reason

You should carefully check the tax laws concerning “use tax” if your state imposes a sales tax. If you purchase an item in a state with lower (or no) sales tax, you owe the amount of tax difference. As states like NY, NJ or other states become more desperate for tax income, they become more sophisticated at collecting it. Avoiding 8-10% of taxes on a $10-15000 item is suddenly not chump change for them.

Bobby T · 3 July 2018, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by askdanny

Now that “retail is the new discount”... I’m looking at buying from an AD but... that sales tax is huge on a Rolex.

I travel often and can easily have my “home” AD ship me a watch to a hotel. Or have the out-of-state AD ship it to my home. Have any of you do it — and have you met dealers who allow you to wear the watch while they ship just the box and papers? If I spend the money, I want my new Rolex on my wrist now

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It use to be common practice.......most ADs won't do it anymore.

samson66 · 3 July 2018, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eltonbalch

You should carefully check the tax laws concerning “use tax” if your state imposes a sales tax. If you purchase an item in a state with lower (or no) sales tax, you owe the amount of tax difference. As states like NY, NJ or other states become more desperate for tax income, they become more sophisticated at collecting it. Avoiding 8-10% of taxes on a $10-15000 item is suddenly not chump change for them.

I hear you. It's extremely common here for people from Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and even further out to buy big ticket items in Delaware. You would be amazed how many furniture stores are located just a few miles into DE from the nearest state line. Agree that at some point these other states will start positioning police at the borders collecting taxes from people coming across the line with sofas sticking out the back of their SUV's

Luckily watches are a little more inconspicuous than king size beds...

2 July 2018, 04:48 PM	#1
askdanny "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: HND/SEA/CDG/AMS Watch: Clock on my A330 Posts: 739	Shipping to avoid local sales tax? Now that “retail is the new discount”... I’m looking at buying from an AD but... that sales tax is huge on a Rolex. I travel often and can easily have my “home” AD ship me a watch to a hotel. Or have the out-of-state AD ship it to my home. Have any of you do it — and have you met dealers who allow you to wear the watch while they ship just the box and papers? If I spend the money, I want my new Rolex on my wrist now Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Rolex stories you won't find anywhere else: https://coron.et

2 July 2018, 04:55 PM	#3
vipergts66 "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 176	I developed a relationship with a small AD that is now out of state for me. They will sell tax free and overnight to me but require the zip codes to match on delivery address and credit card. Legally they’re required to send the watch and can’t allow you to ship an empty box. __________________ Rolex 116710 BLNR Rolex 116610LVc Bvlgari Diagono GMT, Cartier Roadster, Omega Seamaster Pro Chrono, Tag Heuer F1 Chronotimer Apple Watch Series 1

2 July 2018, 05:01 PM	#5
superdog 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Real Name: Seth Location: nj Watch: Omega Posts: 24,697	Rolex policy is face to face. But it does happen. Depends on Ad. Still supposed to pay the piper tho. __________________ If happiness is a state of mind, why look anywhere else for it? IG: gsmotorclub IG: thesawcollection (Both mostly just car stuff)

2 July 2018, 10:29 PM	#9
77T 2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Real Name: PaulG Location: Georgia Posts: 40,724	Shipping to avoid local sales tax? If it is called a sales tax in your State, then the tax is levied against the seller. So the AD is taxed on sales made in the jurisdiction of their place of business and (now that the Supreme Court ruled) anywhere they consummated a sale remotely via shipping a product. Remember it is the seller’s responsibility to pay a sales tax. The reason they charge you the tax is so they don’t lose margin in the business. If the States could trust buyers to pay consumption based taxes, then the seller wouldn’t be in the loop at all. And the term would be “purchases tax”. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro __________________ Does anyone really know what time it is?

2 July 2018, 10:37 PM	#10
GB-man 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: USA Watch: addiction issues Posts: 36,860	As Abdullah noted you’re still legally required to remit tax to your state. Does it happen though? All the time. Maybe not for long with avenues for new legislation open. __________________

2 July 2018, 04:55 PM	#2
MinMay Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: United States Posts: 2,410	It varies, depending on the AD. Some might do it...some won't. You need to ask the AD. If I own an AD, then I wouldn't ship a watch to a "hotel". You can claim "I never received it" or it was "lost or stolen". I would only ship it to the buyer's address.

2 July 2018, 04:56 PM	#4
dubins930 2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member Join Date: May 2017 Real Name: Aaron Location: WA Posts: 796	I live in Washington State, the tax is like 8 percent-ish. I drove down to Portland, stayed in a lovely hotel and still saved like $400 on tax. I don't know about shipping, but even a plane ticket would have saved me money. Your not far out...fly into Oregon and still save a few hundred.

2 July 2018, 08:19 PM	#6
train-time "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Maryland, USA Watch: All gone! Posts: 4,000	With the recent Supreme Court ruling on selling to buyers out of state, I imagine after the individual states react to and modify their laws make sure they get their fare share of lost tax dollars, shipping out of state to save the tax will be a thing of the past. The ruling effect more than internet sales.

2 July 2018, 08:26 PM	#7
Abdullah71601 Banned Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Calumet Harbor Watch: ing da Bears Posts: 13,568	You still owe your home state the sales or use tax. The out of state AD doesn't collect tax for your home state, but you are still on the hook to pay it. It's an honor system at the moment, but if you get caught the system will not look at it as an honest mistake. You'll pay the tax plus fines and their costs to collect.

2 July 2018, 11:17 PM	#11
Rolexavidfan "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Real Name: Har Location: Tukwila, WA Watch: Rolex Posts: 1,568	I was told by an AD that they will still impose sales tax to a buyer whose address happens to be in a place where the out of state AD has a branch. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Rolex Rolex Rolex Rolex Rolex Rolex Rolex Rolex Rolex Rolex Go for the timepiece you love. You will save more. ...

2 July 2018, 11:26 PM	#12
gav329 "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Scotland Posts: 355	Maybe you guys can answer this query. In U.K. we get loads of people from USA and Asia who buy lux goods here including watches then out stupid government gives them 20% tax as a refund. Does that mean they never actually pay tax or do they then get the refund. I was in USA last year and wanted to buy a new watch however California were going to take my tax, not refund me it then when I would have brought watch to U.K. our greedy government would want tax too. Can anyone clarify that? Thanks folks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2 July 2018, 11:34 PM	#14
Rose Gold "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Real Name: Joe Location: North Carolina Watch: er in the rye Posts: 234	I have had two watches shipped out of state. My AD has no problem with shipping out of state. One watch was shipped to Oregon which has no sales tax. Joe __________________ 2018 Rose Gold Daytona (116505) with Rose Gold Dial and Black Sub-Dials.

2 July 2018, 11:42 PM	#15
envuks 2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 X2 Pledge Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New England Posts: 3,687	I asked to ship my 116710 to ovoid the tax when I bought it from an AD. He was very open to doing this. However, I asked the question if he would ship the box and papers and let me walk out with the watch. I was met with a razzing “that’s illegal” comment from my AD. I deal with the CEO of a mult-chain jewelry store as my AD contact and we have a great relationship.... I ended up folking over the tax and walking out with the watch on my wrist __________________ Current watches: 116718ln, 116500 black dial, 40mm Breitling Chronomat MOP dial “A man with one watch always knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure.”

3 July 2018, 12:05 AM	#18
ArtNouveau 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: NWA, USA Watch: BLRO/Daytona/OP41s Posts: 4,963	With the new court ruling, I agree that the practice of shipping to avoid sales tax will be gone as soon as logistics take effect. It has been routinely done in the past though with little to no consequence. "Honor" aside, most states have bigger fish to fry than chasing down an individual watch purchase to collect taxes. When I bought my BLNR, the AD offered to ship it to my sister in CA. They would ship it in its coffin, I could take the boxes and papers home. I was too impatient so I paid the tax and walked out with my watch.

3 July 2018, 12:19 AM	#21
mulgogy "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: New England Watch: Rollies Posts: 224	Just going to leave this here... https://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/05/b...-tax-case.html

3 July 2018, 12:20 AM	#22
REFZ "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Real Name: Martin Location: Netherlands Watch: The Rolex Way Posts: 1,471	The sales tax in the US is relatively low compared to the VAT you have to pay in Europe. The VAT in Europe is between 20-25% depending on the country you buy the watch. Just pay your taxes and don't complain about it if you want to wear a luxury item like a Rolex watch. __________________ 114060 - 116520 - 126334

3 July 2018, 01:04 AM	#26
samson66 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Real Name: Mike Location: Eastern Shore, MD Watch: my money leaving! Posts: 12,903	How far of a drive is Oregon for you? No sales tax. Bought my first from an AD in Delaware for that reason

3 July 2018, 01:19 AM	#27
Rose Gold "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Real Name: Joe Location: North Carolina Watch: er in the rye Posts: 234	I just read the Wayfair Supreme Court ruling found here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...7-494_j4el.pdf It is very clear that this ruling is very narrow, and in most cases, will require states to model their tax code after South Dakota’s tax code in order to be covered by this ruling. Additionally, South Dakota’s law allows a seller with less than $100k worth of sales in a state not to pay taxes. I suspect that many ADs do not ship $100k worth of watches to any particular state... my AD in NC shipped zero dollars into Arizona before my purchase this year. To summarize this succinctly; this narrow ruling will require MANY years to flesh out the details, more rulings as states change their laws and respond to lawsuits related to the Wayfair ruling. ANY AD which references Wayfair as a reason not to ship a watch to another state is simply being lazy. EVEN if Wayfair were to apply (which in most cases it will not), the purchaser is required to pay the taxes independent of whether or not the seller collects the tax. Joe __________________ 2018 Rose Gold Daytona (116505) with Rose Gold Dial and Black Sub-Dials.

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