Buying from crown&caliber with no papers

[Crazy Lugs]

A bit off topic, but I think the (lack) of quality in Crown & Caliber’s photos says it all. Compare their approach to other trusted sellers like DavidSW or Jacek (Tropical) on the vintage side. The stark white backgrounds and lack of clarity compromise the ability to accurately determine condition. Watchbox also takes this approach, which is unfortunate.

I don’t disagree they have a fine reputation, it just makes me wonder why they can’t better present their offerings. Perhaps it’s due to volume.

[77T]

That watch is available as a full set elsewhere and if that’s what you want, you may become dismayed years from now despite getting a price concession today.


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[AJMarcus]

Papers add about 10% to the total cost of the watch. They know that. Deduct that amount and thats how much you should be refunded. I wouldn’t settle for less. Too many watches out there

[David5807]

Personally speaking, I would have requested a return. Buying from a known online seller wouldn't be enough to give me a sense of security in what I bought was genuine.

[NachoNeal]

Originally Posted by Brew

I don't care about papers. But I do care about shoddy business practices.

I totally agree. "Shoddy" at best. And full on 'bait and switch' at worst.

[1William]

Mistakes do happen and without more information on the seller doing something wrong, I think we should take them at face value. I commend them for dealing with the situation up front and not shipping the watch without everything included and disclosed. If the watch is what you want and they take the $300 off you proposed I would take the watch. The warranty is out of date and a bit of paper whose value is subjective to owners, collectors and retailers. If the watch was within the warranty period I would want it or the price adjusted accordingly. Let us know what they say and you decide.

[Jack T]

I’m curious, you list all the specs other than the age of the watch. It’s a five digit series, so it’s at least 8 years old, any service history? $4450 is less than 50% off new. As for the papers, I’d like them but if you have high confidence in the seller and the terms, go ahead

[lamnyc]

I would cancel the order.

[Plant]

Id ask for a fairly aggressive discount and try to get the price as low as possible. Plus ask them to put the watch on a timegrapher to make sure its running well and ask them to jump through any other extra hoops I could think of after they messed up like this. If they dont go out of their way to reassure me and give good discount Id walk immediately.

It could actually be a good thing though if you get nice discount, cant wear papers so Id rather have the discount.

[m j b]

Originally Posted by jimcameron

It's a year 2000 watch, what are the papers going to do for you if you wish to re-sell it at some future time?

I tell you what's going to do, it's going to be worth at least $300 more like $500 for this watch at resale time.

BTDT, it's not just the money but increase difficulty selling to YOU GUYS here without papers.

[iliketime]

I feel they shouldve contacted you as they were packaging to let you know, not when they send it out. That way you couldve decided to get your money back or complete transaction.

[shaunylw]

Originally Posted by SudiYunus

IMO, $500 off.
Being "reputable" doesn't warrant anything nowadays. A close friend of mine bought a used Rolex through Chrono24's "trusted" dealer, that has 3-4 stores in NY state. They claimed it is 201x (random serial #, no paper), but 2 Rolex ASCs claim the piece is 3-5 year older. :(
He keeps the watch.

Chrono 24 is the craigslist of watch sales. That site is horrendous.


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[AlexFrank]

Most don't care too much about the papers, as long as you got a good deal and you love the watch.
Enjoy

[Matt129]

It sounds like an honest mistake and C&C is offering multiple options to try and rectify it.

I wouldn't doubt the authenticity of the watch, but if you wanted to sell it one day having those papers is going to help your resale value and increase your pool of potential buyers to include those that will only buy a piece with papers. If you plan on owning this watch until the day you die, that isn't a big deal.

[Watchdaytona]

Do not buy this unless they give you at least $750 off. Thats the cost of a Rolex service and how much it will cost for you to obtain Rolex papers.
Whoever says $100 is fine, is soft. I certainly wouldn't want that person negotiating on my behalf.
Plenty of watches out there, if ever you try to sell that watch potential buyers will hammer you on price because you don't have papers.

[-dustin]

Papers are so important, yet at the same time seem to be easily forged.

If they go for $300, or even if they stick with $100, I'd take it and run. I suspect if you don't buy it at advertised price, someone else will, so they won't be hard-pressed to offer up much of a refund.

It's hard for me to look at watches and consider potential resale later on. The only item I've been able to do that with is Toyota Tacomas.

[dan.t]

Not the biggest fan of Crown & Caliber. I find their items are usually lesser quality, and this thread now shows quality control issues. I would pass.

[Calatrava r]

I think $300 off is fair for the lack of papers they said they had in the listing.

[DG123]

No papers should be $1,500 discount. Otherwise, I suggest returning the watch.

[amn2110]

If you are planning to hold onto the watch, no papers is not a huge deal, particularly for a more generally available reference. If you think you may want to move it again, having papers will help (with both value and to prove authenticity, since you (likely) don't have the same reputation as C&C.

[walds11]

You may have gotten a decent deal, but the papers or card). That’s just me. I need to have the full set.

[AJMarcus]

Originally Posted by m j b

I tell you what's going to do, it's going to be worth at least $300 more like $500 for this watch at resale time.

BTDT, it's not just the money but increase difficulty selling to YOU GUYS here without papers.

Exactly. Biggest people saying papers don’t matter are usually the ones demanding it when they go to buy.

[JonaG]

Roman Sharf just put up a good video in which he discusses papers, original purchase receipts and "replaceable' items like booklets, polishing cloths etc.
This is for a gold P serial sub.

From 16:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPW3Uj3fFhQ

[kidneymd]

I purchased a Cellini from C&C. They packaged the wrong box/papers with my watch and recalled the UPS delivery at one of their waypoints before it even arrived to my house. C&C sent me the watch overnight once they received it back and sent me the correct box/papers several days later. Believe me I double checked the serial numbers closely.

[Lukebennett21]

I would assume that with papers in hand a listing is worth a heck of a lot more than $100 price increase to C&C. Goes both ways imo and would ask for more.

I also don’t think you can predict the future and it nice to have papers even in the off chance you never sell.

[FQ01]

Someone already mentioned that, but I'd ask if they are willing to refund a full service from Rolex, as it is the only 100% sure way to make sure the watch is genuine. With service papers you'd be muuch better off than just papers that can be faked or acquired from a donor watch.

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[bezler]

Originally Posted by GGGMT

Paper add little value, but I have never, not once, purchased a watch without box and papers. For me, it’s the key part of the providence, the story, the soul, in the history of the watch. I think it is totally righteous the way crown and caliber handled your transaction. I’d cancel it and move on.


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The providence may very well be about the soul, but the provenance is definitely about the history.

[Tricolore66]

On a run-of-the-mill DJ? No chance. It's not a 5513 or Daytona.

Originally Posted by DG123

No papers should be $1,500 discount. Otherwise, I suggest returning the watch.

[Tricolore66]

That's true. C&C would probably ding you $500 on the particular watch in question if you brought it to them to trade or sell without papers. I think the OP is being generous requesting $300, but no harm if he wants the watch. $200 just isn't a battle worth fighting.

Originally Posted by AJMarcus

Exactly. Biggest people saying papers don’t matter are usually the ones demanding it when they go to buy.

[bezler]

Originally Posted by padi56

The so called papers are nothing like a car title, the so called papers are just a warranty paper that in this case has long expired.And with today's technology these bits paper and plastic cards are far easier to fake than the watch.

Paid nobody is disagreeing with you. The issue isn't whether the papers are useful in the real world. The issue is that they add at least $500 to the market price, and he's not getting what he paid for.