"Rolex does NOT know about business"

[Etschell]

I like the nautilus. Im just not paying 50k for one.

Rolex is far more recognizable than any other swiss watch brand, even the holy trinity, to the average joe and thieves.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by 77T

G. - can you cite the source(s) you relied upon for Rolex SKU’s, and the Gross Revenue used to determine the $/SKU?

That data isn’t reported anywhere I’ve found - not challenging your article, just curious.

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I believe he said morgan Stanley research. Prob an industry report that you pay for.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Etschell

I believe he said morgan Stanley research. Prob an industry report that you pay for.

Right, MS wrote their analysis- but a source would be the underlying data. Or they simply made estimates from other reports.


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[Etschell]

Originally Posted by 77T

Right, MS wrote their analysis- but a source would be the underlying data. Or they simply made estimates from other reports.


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Yeah I understand you question now. Only g can answer. My bad.

[Nikrnic]

Wow, It IS ALL about the numbers !

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[Dale.Cooper]

"Morgan has a very strong reputation for not making up numbers."

Should we move this to the Humor and Jokes forum?

[subtona]

Originally Posted by timedate

i hear this all the time, about rolex 'not being the best watch' 'but best resale value' blah blah,

but nobody wants to tell me what is the best watch?


So come on, what is either better, or the best over a rolex, because i am typing this wearing a 1987 unserviced daydate that ticks at plus 3 all day everyday, i challenge something to beat that.

The best watch is the one that you enjoy and wear each and every day and the one the suits your needs ie a complication that is particularly useful for you.

I could easily argue rolex is the best watch as in my personal experience I was a one watch guy for 20 years, it was a submariner and I enjoyed and used the diving bezel daily for different things. The watch was somewhat accurate for a period of time and then I decided accuracy was overrated and enjoyed the watch even more. After 20 years as a daily wear I sold it for what paid for it, even though the bracelet was nearly disintegrated and the watch was horribly polished at rolex service in nyc. The watch was beat up from routine wear and tear but never abused.
But!
Someone could easily argue that a Casio G-Shock is the best watch providing more functionality and accuracy and I do not believe they would be wrong.

If someone cared for Patek and wanted a PC, well how could rolex compete, they don’t make a PC so Patek it is.

Bottom line is it is subjective.

For me I purchased a rolex because it met a list of criteria I was looking for when I decided to buy my first good watch. I did not purchase it simply because I liked the name. I looked at other brands and other divers and for one reason or another they didn’t make the cut.

Finally as in the car reference, I have wanted a Porsche 911 since I was 12 because like rolex they created a great product and respect that creation with an evolution that is respectful to the product. The Porsche 911 and the rolex submariner are timeless designs their evolution has been carefully measured and their owners are supported as no matter what year you own, you likely have developed an emotional bond and can proudly continue to wear or drive yours into the future owners groups and be an equal.

For that matter G-Shock meets many of that criteria though batteries are not my thing

As far as the niche watch example at 250k maybe it is but I don’t see the price as a factor. The cost of a rolex is unattainable to a large percentage of humanity. A watch for hundreds of thousands is simply attainable by a smaller group but no different than a rolex to most except it carved out many of the members of these boards as well as the general public.

[dtwer]

Originally Posted by GerardoG

It looks like they DO know what they are doing. BIG TIME!

...just sharing...

No..! How can that be? We are constantly being told by the "guru's" on TRF that Rolex is turning people off and away by either not flooding the market with a plethora of SS sport watches or not jacking up the prices on their "under-priced" watches!

[GerardoG]

Hello P. Used magazine articles, video interviews with company CEO's and the Morgan report. Tried sending you a PM, inbox is full.

[Rockrolex]

Originally Posted by superdog

For a long time, I was an “only” Rolex guy. Now I’m wearing, by far, the least popular Patek Nautilus model and I can sell it for more than I paid for it.

My 15 yo Y-series GMT-II has incresed 3X over what I paid for it. Top that one, Seth.

[214270Explorer]

. . . . been in business well over a hundred years now . . . must be doing something right . . .

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Rockrolex

My 15 yo Y-series GMT-II has incresed 3X over what I paid for it. Top that one, Seth.

No joke. That’s gonna be hard to beat.

Truth is, that style Rolex is all I want these days.

Looking hard for the right 5 digit GMT Coke.

[watchmavan]

Originally Posted by Etschell

I like the nautilus. Im just not paying 50k for one.

Rolex is far more recognizable than any other swiss watch brand, even the holy trinity, to the average joe and thieves.

So are we asking which is the most popular or recognisable or are we asking which has the highest horological value?



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[superdog]

Originally Posted by Rockrolex

My 15 yo Y-series GMT-II has incresed 3X over what I paid for it. Top that one, Seth.

Just to add...

I recall clearly meeting you and seeing your GMT very well. I recall your stories too.

This without question had an impact on my love for the watch. Quite possibly it’s part of the reason I want one now.

[watchmavan]

If you want to be objective it's easy to say why oh is best. Set a number of criteria and the judge on that.

Eg from Swiss divers watch

The 14 Ranking Criteria:

Long and respected history
Limited supply – large demand
Reputation/status/prestige
Whether or not the brand is a fully independent watchmaker
Pioneering spirit and innovations
Impact on watchmaking history and modern culture
General in-house production (meaning every aspect of the manufacture is in-house)
In-house made movements
Movement complications
Steel grade
Build quality
Price range
Good resale value
Market presence/Market share/Market dominance

You'll still find at least 4 makers above Rolex.


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[Fleetlord]

While the effort is appreciated, the analysis doesn't tell us anything other than Rolex sells more watches than Omega, AP and Patek, which is not a surprise.

It doesn't tell us if Rolex sold more references or less references than the prior year.

Since it is seemingly based on revenue rather than units, we don't know if the Rolex market simply shifted to more expensive TT and PM references to make up for a marketing strategy induced SS Sports inventory gap or if the sales for SS sports are indeed so high that they alone drove the revenue # and there hasn't been a shift up market...we just don't know without seeing units sold YTD vs LYTD.

i have my own opinion of what is happening, but that is for another thread...

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by watchmavan

So are we asking which is the most popular or recognisable or are we asking which has the highest horological value?



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I'm not asking either.

[timedate]

Originally Posted by subtona

The best watch is the one that you enjoy and wear each and every day and the one the suits your needs ie a complication that is particularly useful for you.

I could easily argue rolex is the best watch as in my personal experience I was a one watch guy for 20 years, it was a submariner and I enjoyed and used the diving bezel daily for different things. The watch was somewhat accurate for a period of time and then I decided accuracy was overrated and enjoyed the watch even more. After 20 years as a daily wear I sold it for what paid for it, even though the bracelet was nearly disintegrated and the watch was horribly polished at rolex service in nyc. The watch was beat up from routine wear and tear but never abused.
But!
Someone could easily argue that a Casio G-Shock is the best watch providing more functionality and accuracy and I do not believe they would be wrong.

If someone cared for Patek and wanted a PC, well how could rolex compete, they don’t make a PC so Patek it is.

Bottom line is it is subjective.

For me I purchased a rolex because it met a list of criteria I was looking for when I decided to buy my first good watch. I did not purchase it simply because I liked the name. I looked at other brands and other divers and for one reason or another they didn’t make the cut.

Finally as in the car reference, I have wanted a Porsche 911 since I was 12 because like rolex they created a great product and respect that creation with an evolution that is respectful to the product. The Porsche 911 and the rolex submariner are timeless designs their evolution has been carefully measured and their owners are supported as no matter what year you own, you likely have developed an emotional bond and can proudly continue to wear or drive yours into the future owners groups and be an equal.

For that matter G-Shock meets many of that criteria though batteries are not my thing

As far as the niche watch example at 250k maybe it is but I don’t see the price as a factor. The cost of a rolex is unattainable to a large percentage of humanity. A watch for hundreds of thousands is simply attainable by a smaller group but no different than a rolex to most except it carved out many of the members of these boards as well as the general public.

regarding your comparison between the the rolex submariner and the porsche 911, and how you are saying that they are timeless designs and great products,


what you should have written was, up until 1998 the rolex submariner and the porsche 911 had quality and timeless design in common,


the submariner has retained all of its heritage up to the present day, and in my opinion porsche threw it all away with the 911, from 1998 up to today,


it went from a handmade, very small, quirky, air-cooled, piece-of-genius, true and pure sports car, to an ugly, massive GT which is so far removed from its roots they should name it the 910 or the 913 or something.


i speak from experience, but of course these are only one mans opinions.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by timedate

regarding your comparison between the the rolex submariner and the porsche 911, and how you are saying that they are timeless designs and great products,


what you should have written was, up until 1998 the rolex submariner and the porsche 911 had quality and timeless design in common,


the submariner has retained all of its heritage up to the present day, and in my opinion porsche threw it all away with the 911, from 1998 up to today,


it went from a handmade, very small, quirky, air-cooled, piece-of-genius, true and pure sports car, to an ugly, massive GT which is so far removed from its roots they should name it the 910 or the 913 or something.


i speak from experience, but of course these are only one mans opinions.

Interesting.

I personally think the chunky 6 digit sub is quite different from the previous generations.

Technologically advanced. Sure.

But certainly not as graceful as it’s predecessors.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by superdog

From the very little I know about you, I think you might be.

But who can fault you? It’s an incredible brand. With amazing watches. And the best marketing a business can have.

For a long time, I was an “only” Rolex guy. Now I’m wearing, by far, the least popular Patek Nautilus model and I can sell it for more than I paid for it.

I also love Omega watches. And their branding. Terrible at retaining value though.

So many wonderful watches out there. It’s a beautiful time to be a watch lover. Tough to get many watches, these days, but imho it only adds to the mystique.

And FWIW, I personally think Rolex is exceptional at business and knows exactly what it’s doing.

Maybe in SS, but there are a couple of PM 5712s and the TT 5712 and 5980 that are far less popular even given them being in PM. It's not even in the bottom 4.

[timedate]

Originally Posted by superdog

Interesting.

I personally think the chunky 6 digit sub is quite different from the previous generations.

Technologically advanced. Sure.

But certainly not as graceful as it’s predecessors.

but if you put james bonds submariner next to the latest sub, you would say that they are the same model, give or take some subtlety,

put a 1982 911sc next to the latest 911 and there is no comparison.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by timedate

thanks,

yet nobody i know either has one or wants one.

Really? Even if you don't like the Nautilus shape, you wouldn't one day want a perpetual calendar chronograph, like a 5270, or double split-seconds chrono, 5370, in the traditional round shape? Or are you only into round sports watches with bracelets in which case Rolex is your wheelhouse.

[timedate]

Originally Posted by AK797

Really? Even if you don't like the Nautilus shape, you wouldn't one day want a perpetual calendar chronograph, like a 5270, or double split-seconds chrono, 5370, in the traditional round shape? Or are you only into round sports watches with bracelets in which case Rolex is your wheelhouse.

nah, rolex and omega give me what i need, i dont need any more choice. i dont like the daytona, hardly going to like the 5270.

it goes like this for me,

day date
gmt
sub
oyster perpetual
seamaster
grand seiko spring drive
seiko pepsi

[subtona]

Originally Posted by timedate

regarding your comparison between the the rolex submariner and the porsche 911, and how you are saying that they are timeless designs and great products,


what you should have written was, up until 1998 the rolex submariner and the porsche 911 had quality and timeless design in common,


the submariner has retained all of its heritage up to the present day, and in my opinion porsche threw it all away with the 911, from 1998 up to today,


it went from a handmade, very small, quirky, air-cooled, piece-of-genius, true and pure sports car, to an ugly, massive GT which is so far removed from its roots they should name it the 910 or the 913 or something.


i speak from experience, but of course these are only one mans opinions.

“What you should have written...”
Quite presumptuous.

Without getting into the weeds, both of these products have stronger than typical roots to their history.

I was attempting to add perspective to your question regarding the “best watch”

Guess it was lost in translation.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by timedate

nah, rolex and omega give me what i need, i dont need any more choice. i dont like the daytona, hardly going to like the 5270.

it goes like this for me,

day date
gmt
sub
oyster perpetual
seamaster
grand seiko spring drive
seiko pepsi

I don't approve, but this is the smart way to live your life.

[timedate]

Originally Posted by AK797

I don't approve, but this is the smart way to live your life.

simple like me

i agree the nautilus is nice, but i am a blue collar guy, i like simple

[timedate]

Originally Posted by subtona

“What you should have written...”
Quite presumptuous.

Without getting into the weeds, both of these products have stronger than typical roots to their history.

I was attempting to add perspective to your question regarding the “best watch”

Guess it was lost in translation.

no way presumptious, based on real life ownership


i have owned both air-cooled and modern , they are a different entity,

i have owned both vintage and modern rolex, the parallels and respect to the origins are everywhere

[subtona]

Back to our program.

Thanks G for the interesting perspective and research.

Certainly the company has done many things correct, they also developed a great product and brand recognition.

I count myself among those who are frustrated with the unavailability of desirable SS sports models. But then again I am quite content with my sub and EXP II. As a result, I have been more and more drawn to other brands. the rolex unwillingness to sell watches to the customers rather than to the resellers has directed my interests firmly towards more interesting timepieces.

Hope to enjoy your company at an event soon.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by timedate

no way presumptious, based on real life ownership


i have owned both air-cooled and modern , they are a different entity,

i have owned both vintage and modern rolex, the parallels and respect to the origins are everywhere

I don’t think you understand what he’s saying.

But agree with his final statement. Time to move on.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by AK797

Maybe in SS, but there are a couple of PM 5712s and the TT 5712 and 5980 that are far less popular even given them being in PM. It's not even in the bottom 4.

Ha. Good to know.

But means little to me in the grand scheme.

I’ve finally found a watch that really does it for me. I’m actually surprised it’s not more popular. I think it’s perfect.

Then again, I do realize that I don’t even wear it OEM.