Considering these vintage DJs - Advice Needed!

[JeanGenie]

Hello TRF Community!

I'm attempting to purchase my first vintage watch and was hoping for some advice. I've read through the guide here and feel pretty confident about the two options I'm considering. I'd like to get experienced folks' take on which is the better option.

Basically I want something I can wear on a daily basis and not worry about too much. My main concern here is bracelet and how many more years wear I can expect.

I'm looking at this gem from HQMilton:
https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...ver-dial-A1695

And this newer (would be my birth year!) DJ from a private seller:
https://forums.watchuseek.com/f29/fs...t-4936069.html

I know these are 10 years apart and obviously have some different things to consider. I'm partial to the older one but recognize the bracelet on the newer one looks a lot better. The private seller has a plenty of feedback and I have no reason to doubt his description, but he is less certain about some details (which I get is usually the case with watches this age). I feel more comfortable going with HQ Milton, but as you can see from this rambling post I'm not quite sure what's the best bet.

Pros? Cons?

[BisonHead]

Both look nice watches.

Bracelets can be repaired by a number of folk recommended on here.

Keep us updated on your final choice and of course photos.

[offrdmania]

IMO based on condition alone, I like the look of the piece on WUS more. But its up to you to make the ultimate decision since it is your money and you will be the one wearing it.

[JeanGenie]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

IMO based on condition alone, I like the look of the piece on WUS more. But its up to you to make the ultimate decision since it is your money and you will be the one wearing it.

Yeahhhh that’s pretty much what I’m leaning towards too. Also prefer the white (linen notwithstanding) over silver.

If the hands deteriorate too much on the older model would I need to replace them or is it purely an aesthetic issue?

[mrs_LA]

The degradation will happen over time and it’s purely aesthetic. I love the pie-pan dial with the 4 digit DJ but the one on WUS is beautiful as well with the linen dial. Both dials are desirable.

I think you’ll get a better deal with the linen, birth year watch. It has box and papers and you can still bargain from the seller’s asking price, maybe $100-$300 off from their asking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by JeanGenie

Yeahhhh that’s pretty much what I’m leaning towards too. Also prefer the white (linen notwithstanding) over silver.

If the hands deteriorate too much on the older model would I need to replace them or is it purely an aesthetic issue?

I concur with the above statement

[Dan S]

They both look fine. The linen dial 16014 is in slightly better condition, but that is expected given that it is significantly newer. I would not make a decision based on the condition of the bracelet. And if you take good care of the watches, I would not expect their condition to change too much.

Personally, I like the pie-pan dial of the 1601 reference, but the linen dial is also very nice. As you may know, the 16014 gives you a more modern movement with quick-set.

Note, if you read the service receipt for the 16014 carefully, you will see that the watch was NOT serviced. It was just a regulation, authentication, and pressure check.

[JeanGenie]

Originally Posted by Dan S

They both look fine. The linen dial 16014 is in slightly better condition, but that is expected given that it is significantly newer. I would not make a decision based on the condition of the bracelet. And if you take good care of the watches, I would not expect their condition to change too much.

Personally, I like the pie-pan dial of the 1601 reference, but the linen dial is also very nice. As you may know, the 16014 gives you a more modern movement with quick-set.

Note, if you read the service receipt for the 16014 carefully, you will see that the watch was NOT serviced. It was just a regulation, authentication, and pressure check.

I did catch that detail. In PMing the seller he clarified it as well, and noted the previous owner claimed to have serviced it but did not have documentation. He said it's running around +4 seconds after regulation.

Pretty sure I'm going for the linen because I like the dial better!

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by JeanGenie

I did catch that detail. In PMing the seller he clarified it as well, and noted the previous owner claimed to have serviced it but did not have documentation. He said it's running around +4 seconds after regulation.

Pretty sure I'm going for the linen because I like the dial better!

+4 is great for a vintage watch, still within COSC spec. As long as the beat error is in the 0.0-0.9ms range and the amplitude is in the high 200s then it probably wont need a service for quite a while.

[JeanGenie]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

+4 is great for a vintage watch, still within COSC spec. As long as the beat error is in the 0.0-0.9ms range and the amplitude is in the high 200s then it probably wont need a service for quite a while.

That’s very helpful thanks! And I shouldn’t send this to Rolex, right? They’ll replace everything? I should find a local trusted watchmaker who works on vintage pieces?

Just pulled the trigger on the linen.

Appreciate the various view points here. Will post pics when I get it.

[offrdmania]

Or the same price you will pay to have a local watchmaker look at it, you can go online and buy your own scope which will give you all the information you need on this watch and any other mechanical watch. It’s a good tool to have so that you know when it is time to send your watch is in for service

[JeanGenie]

Well folks, the 16014 arrived and I couldn't be happier. It's really in beautiful condition and the linen dial is truly stunning. I feel like it's in better condition than I am, given we're the same age

Thanks for the perspectives and advice. I finally have a Rolex (does it count as vintage? The 80s are a weird time...)

Final question: anyone know what the hour markers are made of on this model? Are they also white gold?

Pics as promised (not sure why they're sideways but I can't seem to fix it):

[jvmartin]

Very nice! Case still has plenty of meat on it!

[JeanGenie]

Originally Posted by jvmartin

Very nice! Case still has plenty of meat on it!

I was trying to figure out if it had been polished. Previous owner said not to his knowledge. I can’t really tell but when I compare to pics of the same model unpolished from the 80s it appears to match up. Would be happy to hear anyone’s thoughts on that though...

[jvmartin]

Hard to tell without closer pics but nevertheless the bezel and lugs look very sharp and the crown on the clasp looks untouched...

[Richard Carver]

Beautiful watch, congrats! The polish thing is so overblown it is comedic. Any Rolex that was serviced prior to 2000 was polished as a matter of corse, every single one. There were no cool kids telling RSC 'don't polish my watch those collectors in the 21st century will be bummed!'. It was routine, no one thought a thing about it.

Just relax and enjoy your watch. :)

[JeanGenie]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Beautiful watch, congrats! The polish thing is so overblown it is comedic. Any Rolex that was serviced prior to 2000 was polished as a matter of corse, every single one. There were no cool kids telling RSC 'don't polish my watch those collectors in the 21st century will be bummed!'. It was routine, no one thought a thing about it.

Just relax and enjoy your watch. :)

[SunTzu]

Great score! Looks awesome. For that price you got a near perfect example. I see no issues at all. Enjoy!

[Old Expat Beast]

The HQ Milton 1601 was serviced in Japan in 1984, just FYI

[JeanGenie]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

The HQ Milton 1601 was serviced in Japan in 1984, just FYI

Oh that’s interesting. How do you know that? Was it yours?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by JeanGenie

Oh that’s interesting. How do you know that? Was it yours?

59.3.23 is March 23, 1984 on the Japanese Showa calendar. Japanese watchmakers usually use Japanese years when leaving service markings (I collect vintage Japanese watches)

[bdex75]

Very good choice. Love that linen dial.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[JeanGenie]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

59.3.23 is March 23, 1984 on the Japanese Showa calendar. Japanese watchmakers usually use Japanese years when leaving service markings (I collect vintage Japanese watches)

Wow cool tidbit thanks! I wonder if HQ Milton knows....

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by JeanGenie

Wow cool tidbit thanks! I wonder if HQ Milton knows....

I would think so, a lot of their stock comes from Japan, or did when I used to browse their site a couple of years ago.

[Tom1675]

Congrats!

[JeanGenie]

Thanks for the responses!

Another novice question: if timekeeping is good how long should I wait until a service? I’m considering a timegrapher as suggested so I can check beat error and amplitude myself. If those measure within an acceptable range should I be ok to wear on? I’m all for just wearing and loving it, but I want to be somewhat cautious since it’s 34 years old and I don’t know the service history.

Would this do the trick?
https://www.amazon.com/OTOOLWORLD-Te...gateway&sr=8-4

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by JeanGenie

Thanks for the responses!

Another novice question: if timekeeping is good how long should I wait until a service? I’m considering a timegrapher as suggested so I can check beat error and amplitude myself. If those measure within an acceptable range should I be ok to wear on? I’m all for just wearing and loving it, but I want to be somewhat cautious since it’s 34 years old and I don’t know the service history.

Would this do the trick?
https://www.amazon.com/OTOOLWORLD-Te...gateway&sr=8-4

I know this conflicts with advice you received earlier in the thread, but in my opinion, it's better to have watches serviced at regular time intervals instead of trying to judge whether they need a service based on timekeeping/amplitude. Lubricants undoubtedly dry up and degrade over time, which causes friction and wear. This may or may not be immediately reflected in timegrapher readings. Again, this is just my opinion, and different collectors have different philosophies about this.

It also depends on how regularly you intend to use the watch. If you have a large collection and only expect to wear the watch 5-10 times per year, then you could probably afford to defer a service as long as the watch is running well, since you won't subject the watch to very much wear. If you're going to wear the watch a lot, and it probably hasn't been serviced for a long time, then you really should consider investing in a movement service.

[JeanGenie]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I know this conflicts with advice you received earlier in the thread, but in my opinion, it's better to have watches serviced at regular time intervals instead of trying to judge whether they need a service based on timekeeping/amplitude. Lubricants undoubtedly dry up and degrade over time, which causes friction and wear. This may or may not be immediately reflected in timegrapher readings. Again, this is just my opinion, and different collectors have different philosophies about this.

It also depends on how regularly you intend to use the watch. If you have a large collection and only expect to wear the watch 5-10 times per year, then you could probably afford to defer a service as long as the watch is running well, since you won't subject the watch to very much year. If you're going to wear the watch a lot, and it probably hasn't been serviced for a long time, then you really should consider investing in a movement service.

I appreciate the feedback. I’m more inclined to service preemptively, but I also don’t want to do it right away (don’t really have the extra cash now anyways). I do plan to wear it daily, so I can’t go too long without a service.

The previous owner had it regulated and pressure tested in 2016. It hasn’t been worn much since then as he had a large collection.

[mrs_LA]

Originally Posted by JeanGenie

I appreciate the feedback. I’m more inclined to service preemptively, but I also don’t want to do it right away (don’t really have the extra cash now anyways). I do plan to wear it daily, so I can’t go too long without a service.



The previous owner had it regulated and pressure tested in 2016. It hasn’t been worn much since then as he had a large collection.

I concur with Dan S. Since it’s your daily, I would suggest a full service overhaul as well. As Dan S mentioned, the parts can wear and tear if not properly lubricated. The longer you wait, the more expensive the overhaul.

By the way, being regulated and pressure tested is not the same as a full service overhaul, which includes a disassembly, cleaning, re-oiling and reassembly, in addition to repair or replacement of broken or worn out parts. Includes new gaskets, regulation and pressure testing of course.

My watchmaker has a relatively affordable service overhaul. He did a recent overhaul on a datejust I purchased a few months ago. If you’re interested, you can send me a PM and I can give you his details.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JeanGenie]

Originally Posted by mrs_LA

I concur with Dan S. Since it’s your daily, I would suggest a full service overhaul as well. As Dan S mentioned, the parts can wear and tear if not properly lubricated. The longer you wait, the more expensive the overhaul.

By the way, being regulated and pressure tested is not the same as a full service overhaul, which includes a disassembly, cleaning, re-oiling and reassembly, in addition to repair or replacement of broken or worn out parts. Includes new gaskets, regulation and pressure testing of course.

My watchmaker has a relatively affordable service overhaul. He did a recent overhaul on a datejust I purchased a few months ago. If you’re interested, you can send me a PM and I can give you his details.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for that. I do recognize the difference between a full movement service and simply regulating/pressure testing. I’ll drop you a PM as I’d appreciate the reference.

I know this has been covered a lot, and I’ve been searching some old threads on the forum, but I still have to ask: in this case, would it be worth considering going to an RSC? I know this piece isn’t exactly vintage, and the 3035 movement shouldn’t be a problem as far as I understand.

A) will this be significantly more expensive?
B) will they leave dial and hands alone and not polish if I request it?