FPJ Going Boutique Only

[GB-man]

Sucks for govberg as they have done a great deal of work building awareness of the brand via their YouTube channels etc

I would argue they were extremely beneficial to the brands growth over the past 5 years or more.

That said, I am pretty sure they saw the writing on the wall years ago when they pushed hard into secondary.

[Cuts33]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Sucks for govberg as they have done a great deal of work building awareness of the brand via their YouTube channels etc

I would argue they were extremely beneficial to the brands growth over the past 5 years or more.

That said, I am pretty sure they saw the writing on the wall years ago when they pushed hard into secondary.

They created a manipulated market for FPJ and continue to do so with their offshoot secondary store. They wanted to cash in on the craze and flew too close to the sun. They've lost other brands along the way and if Rolex pulls the plug, they are goners.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by Cuts33

They created a manipulated market for FPJ and continue to do so with their offshoot secondary store. They wanted to cash in on the craze and flew too close to the sun. They've lost other brands along the way and if Rolex pulls the plug, they are goners.

They might as well stop being an AD. The Watchbox thing has been very successful for them.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Cuts33

They created a manipulated market for FPJ and continue to do so with their offshoot secondary store. They wanted to cash in on the craze and flew too close to the sun. They've lost other brands along the way and if Rolex pulls the plug, they are goners.

My opinion is that you’re missing the whole point. All brands will sell direct to consumer. Not if but when. The move into secondary was strategic and I’m guessing they knew the consequences of doing so.

If Rolex pulls the plug they are far from goners. That’s the whole point of building a separate business that’s self reliant.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by GB-man

My opinion is that you’re missing the whole point. All brands will sell direct to consumer. Not if but when. The move into secondary was strategic and I’m guessing they knew the consequences of doing so.

If Rolex pulls the plug they are far from goners. That’s the whole point of building a separate business that’s self reliant.

Tend to agree with this view. At some point they do not even need the headaches of being an AD to any brand. They sell multiples of USED Rolex to new Rolex right now, and while the margins are lower on used, they aren't a ton lower. Watchbox, whether you love or hate them, is the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

Also, Watchbox has done a lot for FPJ, but FPJ has done a ton for Watchbox as well (behind the scenes). Everyone has made tons of money. You can bet on it.

[GreenLantern]

I still think it's all very shortsighted.

I'm still not sold on the single-brand boutique concept.

I miss the days when my AD can get me all the brands I care about. Now I need 5-10 different relationships.

How many of you manage to successfully pull off multiple girlfriends / boyfriends simultaneously?

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

I still think it's all very shortsighted.

I'm still not sold on the single-brand boutique concept.

I miss the days when my AD can get me all the brands I care about. Now I need 5-10 different relationships.

How many of you manage to successfully pull off multiple girlfriends / boyfriends simultaneously?

i agree. makes sense now when the watch market is insane but what's going to happen when it comes back to earth. or maybe it will never come back down to earth. i yearn for the days of the AP 30% price decrease.....

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by dchang81

i agree. makes sense now when the watch market is insane but what's going to happen when it comes back to earth. or maybe it will never come back down to earth. i yearn for the days of the AP 30% price decrease.....

Agreed.

It'll always adjust. Markets, even opaque and illiquid ones, always adjust... they just might take longer.

All these retail related decisions during an abnormally hot market that's a bit of an aberration are all very, very short-sighted.

Also, an AD has been specializing in retail forever. From their very beginning.

Watchmakers pivoting to also do retail isn't as easy as it sounds. It's easy when the watches fly off the shelves (see my comment about the market above), but it'll be really hard when you actually have to sell for a change.

There's a reason why car manufacturers want nothing to do with the consumer retail portion. (I know, there's other flaws here -- not going to debate those right now. My comment still stands, regardless.)

[CanPam]

I think it could be a good move but will FPJ open more boutiques also in the future?

[GreenLantern]

How can anyone think it's a good move after reading through the entire thread here and weighing the risks of going boutique-only, fully in-house, during a crazed bull market in watches?

The brands won't be insulated against any downturns, as a result.

[CanPam]

And you really think that the ADs will safe a brand like FPJ from the effects of a changing market? The way that most brands are going seems to be another one...

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by CanPam

And you really think that the ADs will safe a brand like FPJ from the effects of a changing market? The way that most brands are going seems to be another one...

Yes. And a few ADs did that in early 2020 when the pandemic struck (before the watch market re-heated due to the absurd money supply in the world markets).

[CanPam]

But it seems that obviously in the HQs the opinion is another one mate...;)

The step is done so we'll see how it works for them...

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by CanPam

But it seems that obviously in the HQs the opinion is another one mate...;)

Yes, indeed.

That's why I call it a short-sighted move made when times are extremely good.

It's also called: "forgetting who your friends are."

[myporsche]

Originally Posted by shafran

Actually govberg just built a new journe centered boutique and was told today they are being closed by journe

Unbelievable if true, I have seen this happen too many times before with other ADs getting dropped after so much sunken costs in building up the brand, building very expensive showcases, etc. No wonder Tim was underhandedly throwing some jabs at Journe in one of his latest videos I saw yesterday. The brand seems to be doing all the dirty tricks in the book including having "enthusiast" promote and push the brand on forums such as this.

[myporsche]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

How can anyone think it's a good move after reading through the entire thread here and weighing the risks of going boutique-only, fully in-house, during a crazed bull market in watches?

The brands won't be insulated against any downturns, as a result.

A lot of folks from all sides (retailer, consumer, ADs) will be singing much different tunes when the tide turns. Brands like FPJ, AP, PP where easily discounted 25% + not too long ago, I remember very very clearly.

..and people were not buying.

[mockingboy]

The problem I see is that these independent brands only get exposure to new customers through ADs. The ADs build the independents, not the brands themselves.

You can’t compare FPJ to Patek or Rolex. Two wildly different animals.

FPJ is the rare independent who sells at meaningful premium to MSRP; that is due to the brand awareness generated by their ADs (namely Govbeeg). Every other independent can be had at a discount or list of MSRP but maybe with a little wait time.

I just think it’s a huge slap in the face to ADs to get their product lines pulled.

And the reality is it’s no easier now to get a watch from FPJ or AP in a boutique only model than it was at an AD.

Atleast I can buy across multiple brands from an AD vs. having to buy 3 crappy pieces from AP at the boutique to have a shot at a steel sports watch.

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Unbelievable if true, I have seen this happen too many times before with other ADs getting dropped after so much sunken costs in building up the brand, building very expensive showcases, etc. No wonder Tim was underhandedly throwing some jabs at Journe in one of his latest videos I saw yesterday. The brand seems to be doing all the dirty tricks in the book including having "enthusiast" promote and push the brand on forums such as this.

Who is this “enthusiast” on the Journe payroll that is corrupting our minds?

[CFR]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Unbelievable if true, I have seen this happen too many times before with other ADs getting dropped after so much sunken costs in building up the brand, building very expensive showcases, etc. No wonder Tim was underhandedly throwing some jabs at Journe in one of his latest videos I saw yesterday. The brand seems to be doing all the dirty tricks in the book including having "enthusiast" promote and push the brand on forums such as this.

I'm curious if Tim's recent comments represent a change for him/Watchbox/Govberg. I like Tim but don't watch his videos (or any watch videos) often enough to know the typical tone. I did just look at the video you referenced (from April 19) and observed that Tim made at least 3 negative comments about Journe and/or his watches at different points of that video (that Tim "is done" talking about FPJ watches for now after W&W'21, that FPJ movements not as well finished as certain Breguet movements, that FPJ isn't the most approachable person, etc.). Was Tim sometimes critical of the FPJ brand like this previously, before Govberg lost their FPJ AD status? Or was Tim entirely positive about the FPJ brand until now?

[christianj]

Would it really be smart for Watchbox to make negative comments about the brand right now if they are indeed sitting on all the pre-owned inventory people say they have?

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

Who is this “enthusiast” on the Journe payroll that is corrupting our minds?

Sounds like something a Journe payroll crisis actor lizardman CIA mind corruptor gray alien watch enthusiast might say to throw people off their trail!!!

I agree with Jay that the conspiracy talk is a little weird.

Also, watch companies can't "just" hire some people and boom, quadruple their production (FPJ annual production is around 650 pieces last few years and they will never ever go above 1000). That's not sane, reasonable discourse.

It's okay that people can't just buy whatever they please. That's life. Nobody needs an FPJ to live. DeBethune or LF probably need the business!

[unknown]

Can someone link that video

Anyway ... it’s pathetic if they are negative about journe now.

[WatchEater666]

I just watched a part of it, and I think it's a serious stretch to say Breguet finishing is in the same ballpark FPJ. It's nice, but not FPJ nice and I say that as a huge Breguet fan.

[shafran]

As for Tim's video. Govberg found out on 4/20 at around 1:30 pm. I was there at the time when it happened.

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by unknown

Can someone link that video

Anyway ... it’s pathetic if they are negative about journe now.

why is it pathetic? they just got dumped by the prettiest girl at prom. i'd be livid if i invested that much just to be left with a worthless showcase. i don't know the business side of things but before this boom it's not like journe was setting the world on fire, they even had to close down a boutique or two due to poor sales (at least that's what i was told years ago). throw them a bone and have one boutique run by govberg or something

[myporsche]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

Who is this “enthusiast” on the Journe payroll that is corrupting our minds?

I wouldn't worry about it too much unless your easily influenced but if your still curious you can search and go through tons of hyped up threads on the brand.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by shafran

As for Tim's video. Govberg found out on 4/20 at around 1:30 pm. I was there at the time when it happened.

If there was ever a reason to get high on 4/20, that would be a good one.

[myporsche]

Originally Posted by CFR

I'm curious if Tim's recent comments represent a change for him/Watchbox/Govberg. I like Tim but don't watch his videos (or any watch videos) often enough to know the typical tone. I did just look at the video you referenced (from April 19) and observed that Tim made at least 3 negative comments about Journe and/or his watches at different points of that video (that Tim "is done" talking about FPJ watches for now after W&W'21, that FPJ movements not as well finished as certain Breguet movements, that FPJ isn't the most approachable person, etc.). Was Tim sometimes critical of the FPJ brand like this previously, before Govberg lost their FPJ AD status? Or was Tim entirely positive about the FPJ brand until now?

Yeah that's the vid.

Originally Posted by dchang81

why is it pathetic? they just got dumped by the prettiest girl at prom. i'd be livid if i invested that much just to be left with a worthless showcase. i don't know the business side of things but before this boom it's not like journe was setting the world on fire, they even had to close down a boutique or two due to poor sales (at least that's what i was told years ago). throw them a bone and have one boutique run by govberg or something

I'd be pissed too, ADs invest a lot of money showcasing brands that they have closely partnered up with.

Originally Posted by kunlun

Sounds like something a Journe payroll crisis actor lizardman CIA mind corruptor gray alien watch enthusiast might say to throw people off their trail!!!

I agree with Jay that the conspiracy talk is a little weird.

Also, watch companies can't "just" hire some people and boom, quadruple their production (FPJ annual production is around 650 pieces last few years and they will never ever go above 1000). That's not sane, reasonable discourse.

It's okay that people can't just buy whatever they please. That's life. Nobody needs an FPJ to live. DeBethune or LF probably need the business!

Yes yes good for you that you agree.

Is it completely out of this realm that watch companies hire unofficial ambassadors to pump up their brand right? All the watch blogs just spend all the time, marketing, and work just to give you fun transparent opinions and all those youtube watch videos you watch are unbiased opinions. Everyone that has a different point of view or doesn't follow the herd is a conspiracy theorist or a crazy nut, gotcha.

[unknown]

Closing AD’s will only happen in the US
Not the rest of the world

[jon_jon]

FP Journe makes some nice watches and definitely has a niche market. I am not surprised they are going boutique only. They can better control their distribution and sales. I have had one excellent experience at a JPJ boutique, their first opened boutique. However I have also had a very poor experience at their flagship boutique in Geneva. Ultimately it comes down to one salesperson who can give a great boutique experience or another one who can leave a sour taste after visiting the boutique. Will be interesting to see how it works out for the watch brand.