Tudor - Rose in Shield Logo

[emersm]

The rose in shield logo is an interesting subject to me as I own a few of these watches and have always wondered when they were produced.

I know that the "official" launch of Tudor was in 1946 and the company began to phase out the log from 1947 onwards, but it is my understanding that the logo was used throughout the entire decade of the 1940's and possibly into the early 50's.

I have seen auctions with papers before 1946 and after 1947.

Then, there are the serial numbers. I have pieces with mid six digit serial numbers and pieces with 4 digit serial numbers.

Any information/insight would be appreciated.

[Old Expat Beast]

As far as I recall from my days of also being interested in this, the Shield was phased out in 1947. Some may have sold later than that, so have later papers.

[emersm]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

As far as I recall from my days of also being interested in this, the Shield was phased out in 1947. Some may have sold later than that, so have later papers.

Agree. I have seen a few on the internet for sale claiming to be from the early 50's, thou I am not sure how the sellers are able to accurately date the pieces.

There is one on Ebay now that has the caseback engraved 1943. I would love to know when Tudor started using the rose in shield.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-TUDOR...D/284167621043

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by emersm

Agree. I have seen a few on the internet for sale claiming to be from the early 50's, thou I am not sure how the sellers are able to accurately date the pieces.

There is one on Ebay now that has the caseback engraved 1943. I would love to know when Tudor started using the rose in shield.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLEX-TUDOR...D/284167621043

Interesting. That 1943 engraving is a mystery. The only pre-1946 Tudors I've seen have had the long T and no rose logo.

[emersm]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Interesting. That 1943 engraving is a mystery. The only pre-1946 Tudors I've seen have had the long T and no rose logo.

It would be nice if there was a book outlining the history of the Tudor brand.

I was just on Mike Wood's website at the Old Watch Shop. If you look under watches that were sold. He has plenty of Tudors and has identified some as early 1940's and late 1940's

http://theoldwatchshop.com/tudarc.html

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by emersm

It would be nice if there was a book outlining the history of the Tudor brand.

I was just on Mike Wood's website at the Old Watch Shop. If you look under watches that were sold. He has plenty of rose in shield Tudors that he has identified as early 1940's and late 1940's

http://theoldwatchshop.com/tudarc.html

Just did a quick scan through and only found two shields...both apparently 4463s and described as "circa early 1940s" and "circa late 1940s". I'd expect both to be 1946 or 47.

[emersm]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Just did a quick scan through and only found two shields...both apparently 4463s and described as "circa early 1940s" and "circa late 1940s". I'd expect both to be 1946 or 47.

Those were the two I saw at first glance.

How about this article. WWII vet purchases a Tudor during the war trials in 1945 at a PX. Small rose logo... no shield.

https://adventuresinamateurwatchfett...ter-from-1945/

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by emersm

Those were the two I saw at first glance.

How about this article. WWII vet purchases a Tudor during the war trials in 1945 at a PX. Small rose logo... no shield.

https://adventuresinamateurwatchfett...ter-from-1945/

It says "during his time there" and the trials went on till October 1946. Doesn't say he bought it in 1945, nor how long he was stationed there.

[emersm]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

It says "during his time there" and the trials went on till October 1946. Doesn't say he bought it in 1945, nor how long he was stationed there.

I did read that.

The author says "A bit of research suggested that the serial number on the back, a six digit number starting 363… dated the watch to 1945, consistent with the dates my father-in-law was at Nuremberg and suggesting that he bought it new."

I am not debating when the rose in shield was used as I do not know. I am attempting to learn when the rose in shield was used as there is a lot of conflicting information out there.

[Old Expat Beast]

Seems like he's using the Rolex serial chart to date that serial, which might work I guess, but I've never seen a viable Tudor serial chart from the 1940s. Anyway, good luck with the search and I hope you find some good primary-source info

[emersm]

Another example:

Retirement watch inscribed on the back 1951

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ighlight=tudor

[Ralix13]

Emersm
I have a Tudor watch with the shield rose too. The serial is 403xxx which according to the official serial chart makes it a 60s watch. A bit confusing but I love the watch.

[emersm]

Originally Posted by Ralix13

Emersm
I have a Tudor watch with the shield rose too. The serial is 403xxx which according to the official serial chart makes it a 60s watch. A bit confusing but I love the watch.

My opinion is that some of the older (40's) Tudor models have serial numbers that are in line with the Rolex serial numbers.

Your Tudor serial number 403xxx would have been produced in 1946 if you use the Rolex production dates chart.

[Sherbie]

I have one with rose in shield - serial number on back is 4675xx

Sorry for the poor pic - all i have right now




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[Ralix13]

Heres a picture of mine

[alwayshere]

very informative post. I'm now mentally etching in the writing fonts for this era.

[emersm]

Originally Posted by Sherbie

I have one with rose in shield - serial number on back is 4675xx

Sorry for the poor pic - all i have right now



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Very nice. Your watch would also fall into the 1946 production range if following the Rolex production date chart.

Originally Posted by Ralix13

Heres a picture of mine

That dial has some serious character.

[emersm]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

very informative post. I'm now mentally etching in the writing fonts for this era.

[emersm]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Interesting. That 1943 engraving is a mystery. The only pre-1946 Tudors I've seen have had the long T and no rose logo.

I emailed Rolex Geneve on Friday and asked if they could provide information relative to when the rose in shield was utilized on Tudor dials.

I received this official email from MONTRES TUDOR SA this morning
__________________________________________________ ____

Dear Sir,

We refer to your today’s e-mail, which has received our best attention.

With regards to your request, please be advised that from 1926 to 1936, Tudor used the word Tudor with an elongated T as dial signature or logo. From 1936 to 1947, the logo evolved to a rose inscribed within a shield and to a rose only from 1947 to 1969.
From then on the logo evolved again to depict a shield only, which still is the brand’s logo today.

Please consider the dates above as a general indication of the era the respective logos were used, rather than a definitive and strict scale to determine the production era of a Tudor watch.

Regarding serial numbers, older Tudor examples indeed made use of four-digit serial numbers, evolving to 5 and more.

Thanking you again for your interest in our brand, we remain,

Yours sincerely,

Bénédict


Relations Clients
Customers Relations

MONTRES TUDOR SA
rue François-Dussaud, 3-5-7
1211 Geneva 26 - Switzerland
__________________________________________________ _

I didn't expect to hear that they were produced as early as 1936.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by emersm

__________________________________________________ _

I didn't expect to hear that they were produced as early as 1936.

Yeah, that 1936 info has been up on the Tudor website for some time, but I've still never seen an actual example, and none is shown there.

https://www.tudorwatch.com/en/inside...s-1926-to-1949

[emersm]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Yeah, that 1936 info has been up on the Tudor website for some time, but I've still never seen an actual example, and none is shown there.

https://www.tudorwatch.com/en/inside...s-1926-to-1949

I saw that on their website, also.

It would be interesting to know what the serial number of the 1943 inscribed watch on ebay is.

My theory, and it is only my theory, is that the mid six digit serial number references that parallel the rolex serial numbers (like the ones pictured above) were produced in 1946/1947 and the ones with 4 and 5 digit serial numbers were produced before 1946. Just my opinion.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by emersm

I saw that on their website, also.

It would be interesting to know what the serial number of the 1943 inscribed watch on ebay is.

My theory, and it is only my theory, is that the mid six digit serial number references that parallel the rolex serial numbers (like the ones pictured above) were produced in 1946/1947 and the ones with 4 and 5 digit serial numbers were produced before 1946. Just my opinion.

The 1943-inscribed watch isn't an Oyster case, though, and Rolex used a different set of serials for Oyster and Non-Oyster cases as far as I know, so that serial probably wouldn't be helpful.

[emersm]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

The 1943-inscribed watch isn't an Oyster case, though, and Rolex used a different set of serials for Oyster and Non-Oyster cases as far as I know, so that serial probably wouldn't be helpful.

Like you said, there are no viable charts to reference, so perhaps we will never know.

[Old Expat Beast]

If you go here https://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/newspapers/ you can find quite a lot of Tudor watch adverts from the 1930s and 1940s placed by the Singapore AD, Gammeter. They mostly seem to show "Oyster Tudor" on the dial but I didn't do an extensive search. You can search by keyword (i.e 'tudor watch') and year.

[emersm]

Here is one that Bob Ridley is working on for me. It has a five digit serial number 13263


This is the watch that started my search for production dates

It has a military vibe and I was attempting to see if I could determine when it was produced.





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[emersm]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

If you go here https://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/newspapers/ you can find quite a lot of Tudor watch adverts from the 1930s and 1940s placed by the Singapore AD, Gammeter. They mostly seem to show "Oyster Tudor" on the dial but I didn't do an extensive search. You can search by keyword (i.e 'tudor watch') and year.

Thanks, Adam.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by emersm

I emailed Rolex Geneve on Friday and asked if they could provide information relative to when the rose in shield was utilized on Tudor dials....
I didn't expect to hear that they were produced as early as 1936.

Surprising, but even more surprising that you emailed Rolex Geneva about a vintage matter and actually got a reply.

[emersm]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Surprising, but even more surprising that you emailed Rolex Geneva about a vintage matter and actually got a reply.

Yea, I was pretty surprised myself. And, the next business day!

[emersm]

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[Sherbie]

Originally Posted by emersm

Very nice. Your watch would also fall into the 1946 production range if following the Rolex production date chart.



That dial has some serious character.

Thanks

I’ve been told it has Devon lugs, but cant find anything about these and how they were named !


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