2+ Years in Rehab...

[mrarchiegoodwin]

A friend took me to his AD to pick up his Patek after it spent over two years in the watch spa in Geneva. 80% of the cost was for realigning wheels (no description of whether they were all new or refurbished). 20% for a new mineral crystal, new hands and work on the case. Patek could not restore the dial. My friend was in college when he got it from his great uncle who had bought it new and wore it for over 30 years on his farm. My friend wore it until a college pal borrowed it one day and dropped it on a concrete deck. Thereafter it languished in a sock drawer. Nearly three years ago, my friend finally reached that line on his bucket list to get the Patek fixed. Patek believes it is a one off including the movement--no models and calibers back then. The case is stainless steel with yellow gold accents. I did not know bimetal cases existed prior to the 70s. This watch is around 100 years old. Here are some fuzzy pictures I took at the AD. I post this for watch fans because this seems an excellent example of Patek's commitment to its customers. I am impressed. Even though I decided to not buy another watch after getting my SD43 I am now considering a Patek.

[martinr]

Really 100 years old?

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by martinr

Really 100 years old?

the inscription on the back looks very off to me considering the age of the watch .

[WatchLurv]

Patek believes it is a one off including the movement--no models and calibers back then

So Patek doesnt even know what they produced?

I highly doubt that. Everything was penned and papered - They didn't just come up with the design from trial and error. It wasn't a slobby operation from the get-go.

[mrarchiegoodwin]

I am not knowledgable about Patek except its good reputation in the WIS world. I share what I was told by the AD that I assume to be true about my friend's antique watch. I do so to provide a modicum of enlightenment and, hopefully, not too much redundancy to Patek fans here. Any misrepresentation is unintentional because I type the essence of what the AD said--I scribbled notes.

I admit I was very disappointed that the watch was not accompanied by paperwork from Patek explaining what was known, researched or surmised by Patek staff about its origin. But now I realize that that might require a different type of work order and fee. Perhaps engaging the services of the Patek museum. Yet, I wish Patek had listed parts, tasks, etc., so its customers can appreciate how much work is required for such a restoration (in two years at a cost well into 5 figures). I also wish the original defunct parts were returned (as is the custom for AP service that I appreciate very much).

The AD said that circa 1916-1918 (when the watch was supposed to have been new and purchased for $1300) Patek and other marks were not as regimented as today--that makers bought parts, movements or cases from others. I was surprised and said so, but had to assume the AD would not make up something like that. I am sure someone on Rolex Forums who knows about antique Pateks could confirm whether what the AD told us is true or not. I am very interested to find out because I now want to buy a Patek, but only from a very knowledgable dealer.

The accompanying hang tag from Patek (with handwriting in blue ink) consists of just four lines of information. It lists the movement's identification as a series of letters--not numbers. The tag also includes the watch's ID number which, the AD said, is hidden within the case. I expected to see a caliber number on the hang tag instead of a series of letters, but the AD insisted that Patek did not identify all its ebauches at that time. I refrained from posting picture of the tag because I notice it seems to be a custom or etiquette on Rolex Forums to screen serial numbers. The AD's staff who served us is supposed to be in charge of Patek and estate watches for the jewelry store. So I assume he knows a great deal about Patek and watchmaking history (although he did not know that a watch in his case I considered buying was a 5170 until he scrutinized the hang tag).

I thought I saw and pointed out a tiny dent on the surface of the case next to the crown which (via the store's loupe) turned out to be a hallmark that the AD said probably identifies the maker of the case. I was surprised that the case was not made by Patek, but the AD assured us that back then several watchmakers made custom cases for Patek or Patek's clients. I remember having read about Pateks with cases made by famous jewelers for famous clients.

I regret not having asked to see Patek's original invoice for the work. The AD presented the jewelry store's itemized half page invoice. He explained to us that "Mr. Stern's original invoice was difficult to decipher and full of watch jargon in French." It impressed me that "Mr. Stern" was involved at all, but thought that invoking his name might have been a WIS insider's joke--lost on us. Nonetheless, I will urge my friend to ask the AD for a copy of Patek's original invoice.

As an aside, while in the store, the staff in charge of the jeweler's Rolex section admired the SD43 I was wearing. He is a collector of Rolex dive watches so we chatted about glorious 5512s and 5513s. Herein, I exit the exalted Patek Forum and return humbly to the lower orders in which I am more comfortable. Best wishes to all.

[MILGAUSS88]

I don't know where to start.

I have a Patek with a similar signed case back, that dates from 1927. I think the 1917-19 is a little too early. I would say late 20's or early 30's.

No way that watch cost $1300 in the 1920's unless that price is adjusted for inflation.
They were expensive back then, but not that expensive. I can find ads for the 12-600at Pateks for $800 from 1955. No way the price was more than that 30 years earlier.

Most Swiss watch companies at that time would have bought cases from a different company at this time. I have seen several Pateks that were just sold as movements and the jewelry store provided their own case. Patek will note that in the extract if it is ordered.

This has a Patek signed case, that would be the way it left the factory.

The hallmark indicates that it is a gold case, not steel. So, white gold with yellow gold accents. Which, along with the other info makes me think the AD is not very knowledgeable.

I would think the only reason to not provide the original repair invoice was because the store tacked on a little for themselves. (By a little, I mean a lot.)

Then the cost of repair, wow. I knew Patek is expensive, but over $10 grand?
I knew I use to have it good, I brought a ladies Patek from the 40's to my old watchmaker, he had to make a couple of parts for me. I think it was about $150.

[WatchLurv]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

I don't know where to start.

I have a Patek with a similar signed case back, that dates from 1927. I think the 1917-19 is a little too early. I would say late 20's or early 30's.

No way that watch cost $1300 in the 1920's unless that price is adjusted for inflation.
They were expensive back then, but not that expensive. I can find ads for the 12-600at Pateks for $800 from 1955. No way the price was more than that 30 years earlier.

Most Swiss watch companies at that time would have bought cases from a different company at this time. I have seen several Pateks that were just sold as movements and the jewelry store provided their own case. Patek will note that in the extract if it is ordered.

This has a Patek signed case, that would be the way it left the factory.

The hallmark indicates that it is a gold case, not steel. So, white gold with yellow gold accents. Which, along with the other info makes me think the AD is not very knowledgeable.

I would think the only reason to not provide the original repair invoice was because the store tacked on a little for themselves. (By a little, I mean a lot.)

Then the cost of repair, wow. I knew Patek is expensive, but over $10 grand?
I knew I use to have it good, I brought a ladies Patek from the 40's to my old watchmaker, he had to make a couple of parts for me. I think it was about $150.

In summary: OP got ripped off by whoever "fixed" it?

[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by WatchLurv

In summary: OP got ripped off by whoever "fixed" it?

Well that was just the last sentence. I understand my repair was a great deal.
Patek fixed it, the watch has a Patek service sticker on it.

$10k for a watch repair is absurd though.

[Calatrava r]

I just got my 1931 watch back from restoration at PP. Really remarkable that they can bring back to life any PP watch no matter how old.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

Well that was just the last sentence. I understand my repair was a great deal.
Patek fixed it, the watch has a Patek service sticker on it.

$10k for a watch repair is absurd though.

The parts on such old pieces are no longer stocked. They have to make them all from scratch from old drawings on a one watch basis. No economies of scale to be realized. Its also a big reason non-working very old PP watches typically sell at big bargains, if they are not rare collectibles, as buyers know restoration could be very expensive and factor that into the cost of the watch.

[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

The parts on such old pieces are no longer stocked. They have to make them all from scratch from old drawings on a one watch basis. No economies of scale to be realized. Its also a big reason non-working very old PP watches typically sell at big bargains, if they are not rare collectibles, as buyers know restoration could be very expensive and factor that into the cost of the watch.

Yes, I understand.
If you read my earlier post I had some Patek parts hand made from scratch and it cost me less than $200.

I brought another Patek to my watch maker. This one owned by someone else.
It was missing a going barrel, If I remember right. I told him to charge whatever he wanted. Since it was not mine. I think he had $500 down, but bumped it to $700. This was done by hand with out the original part to look at.

Patek should be able to just copy the parts and have them cut out electronically via computer, this is the 21st century.

[martinr]

Just noticed a very similar watch for sale online by The Keystone. 11K and comes with archival certificate dating it to 1927. White gold not two tone.