Experiences with Watches of Switzerland

[Locust]

Originally Posted by Patekaddict

the only flipper I see here is a little boy who has a 3.5 inch wrist who buys a 44mm AP that looks like a clock on your wrist......... what a joke. Grow up before you come here and comment maybe you want to own a patek first and only then come sit with the big boys.Attachment 1243783

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Personal attack. Not cool at all.

[qrc36]

My Patek experience with WOS was in London - and a very surprising experience too. This was back in 2017 when things were a little less crazy than at present.

I had bought lots of WG/RG/YG models at the WOS Heathrow store. The prices at Heathrow were substantially cheaper than the retail price in Hong Kong. A rose gold Daytona (with rose gold bracelet) was around US$8000 cheaper at Heathrow compared to HK retail price and there was excellent availability. These precious metal sports watches were sitting in the display, unsold and unwanted. I bought some for myself (WG Pepsi, WG Smurf) and also lots of Daytonas for friends as well. I flew through Heathrow maybe 5-6 times a year and picked up 2-3 watches on each trip, and this went on for a few years.

So one time I asked my friendly WOS Heathrow SA to see if I could waitlist for the 5712A at WOS in the city, and they got me in touch with someone. I thought it was just a friendly gesture and never expected to get anything. About a year later I got a WhatsApp message saying my 5712 arrived, and I was asked to wire over a deposit, and I went over to London a month or so afterwards to pick up from their store in the city. Everybody I talked to at WOS has been really nice - at Heathrow and also in the city, no complaints at all.

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by gnuyork

I have always been of the mindset of never going gray, but sheesh.... $700K? for nothing? If I were in your shoes, I'd rethink my own reservations.

This is precisely why I have gone grey long ago when it comes to Patek. Of course it won’t be like this for everyone, some have gotten a Nautilus while spending less, or have honest ADs, but I prefer just give up dealing with all this hassles.

[scurfa]

Originally Posted by qrc36

My Patek experience with WOS was in London - and a very surprising experience too. This was back in 2017 when things were a little less crazy than at present.

I had bought lots of WG/RG/YG models at the WOS Heathrow store. The prices at Heathrow were substantially cheaper than the retail price in Hong Kong. A rose gold Daytona (with rose gold bracelet) was around US$8000 cheaper at Heathrow compared to HK retail price and there was excellent availability. These precious metal sports watches were sitting in the display, unsold and unwanted. I bought some for myself (WG Pepsi, WG Smurf) and also lots of Daytonas for friends as well. I flew through Heathrow maybe 5-6 times a year and picked up 2-3 watches on each trip, and this went on for a few years.

So one time I asked my friendly WOS Heathrow SA to see if I could waitlist for the 5712A at WOS in the city, and they got me in touch with someone. I thought it was just a friendly gesture and never expected to get anything. About a year later I got a WhatsApp message saying my 5712 arrived, and I was asked to wire over a deposit, and I went over to London a month or so afterwards to pick up from their store in the city. Everybody I talked to at WOS has been really nice - at Heathrow and also in the city, no complaints at all.

That was still the case in 2017 but the Patek market has moved fast since then, your friendly AD’s are having the power of who to choose as customers stripped away, the head office at most AD’s are now choosing and it’s the biggest hitters who have the hot models allocated.


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[llngoc]

Originally Posted by mooty

^$500-700k in Tiffany PP SF will not get you very far.... even $1mm in one year wont go very far at the union square PP/Tiffany

Finally someone who has the same experience at the Union Square Tiffany. Over a year ago, I was looking for a 7118 for my wife before it was even hot and Tiffany Union Square told me quite straight that in order to get a watch from them, I need to be a client with 500k+ spend on other things.

In area with a lot of high spenders like NYC or Silicon Valley, the threshold for spending is indeed very high.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by qrc36

My Patek experience with WOS was in London - and a very surprising experience too. This was back in 2017 when things were a little less crazy than at present.

I had bought lots of WG/RG/YG models at the WOS Heathrow store. The prices at Heathrow were substantially cheaper than the retail price in Hong Kong. A rose gold Daytona (with rose gold bracelet) was around US$8000 cheaper at Heathrow compared to HK retail price and there was excellent availability. These precious metal sports watches were sitting in the display, unsold and unwanted. I bought some for myself (WG Pepsi, WG Smurf) and also lots of Daytonas for friends as well. I flew through Heathrow maybe 5-6 times a year and picked up 2-3 watches on each trip, and this went on for a few years.

So one time I asked my friendly WOS Heathrow SA to see if I could waitlist for the 5712A at WOS in the city, and they got me in touch with someone. I thought it was just a friendly gesture and never expected to get anything. About a year later I got a WhatsApp message saying my 5712 arrived, and I was asked to wire over a deposit, and I went over to London a month or so afterwards to pick up from their store in the city. Everybody I talked to at WOS has been really nice - at Heathrow and also in the city, no complaints at all.

This must be before the craze we are in now. This bubble we are in now is really frustrating to someone who likes to buy and enjoy his/her watches.

[mongrelnomoad]

I haven't bought anything from them in London since they moved from Bond Street, but a few years ago (must have been early 2017) went into the giant then-new Regent Street store. Immense and intimidating, but the sales staff were great. We got talking about watches and they were both knowledgeable and friendly, and even brought out a rose gold 5711 which I now wish I'd bought.

I didn't end up buying from them as another London store gave me a better price on the watch I was looking at, but it was a good experience overall.

[Partekular]

Originally Posted by scurfa

I have nothing against WOS it’s the whole Patek situation I have a problem with, if you cannot get watches you have a passion for it’s time to move on.
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That’s why I decided not to buy a Ferrari! Low production runs, largely hand finished by skilled craftsman, horrendously expensive, won’t put me on the list - rigged market .. bought a Ford Escort! That’ll learn ‘em!

Veblen goods - status by restricted supply! Do they need to offer more “lower” market intro stuff as Burberry cleverly did by introducing scarves, shirts and hats for those that couldn’t afford the rain coats.. I think Nautilus was that play in stainless steel but it got out of hand and took over the PP status market so .. Aquanaut… Funny really. If PP lose the hand made image and status why not buy a Timex? And why not? Or quartz?

Marketing hype is a wonderful thing. An on trend Hermes handbag - if you can get on the list to get one £7000 - a leather handbag £500.

[Partekular]

Originally Posted by Locust

Personal attack. Not cool at all.

Nothing wrong with owning an over-large watch. I have an IWC supersize me Big Pilot and my wife borrows it all the time. It’s enormous compared with my PPs. We both love it.

[TimepieceRPP]

So far all the branches of WoS in London I have dealt with are great and no complaints at all,although I haven't allocated any hot models I ask for in 2021. But can't blame them as it is just my spending power is not strong enough, compared with those millionaires.
I agreed that all change since late 2018. I was told I would be the next one to get 5712 in early 2018 but after summer the AD told me that I needed to wait and since then he couldn't promise me anything and now I gave up already.

[Xerxes77]

Originally Posted by Patekaddict

Wow where do I begin.... I have been a client of WOS in NYC since the opening of the store. First I was dealing with a sales guy for about 9 months and spent about 200k with him on Rolex etc in order to Acquire a Patek, my sales guy leaves the company without informing any of his clients and I was given a new associate who basically told me Sorry but I have to start from Scratch and everything I spend means nothing.

So I start a new relationship with him (really nice guy and very straight forward) basically tells me bluntly if I spend around 500k withing a year I then qualify for any Nautilus I want. So I go ahead and start buying Rolex watches and Breitling as gifts for employees and a few Calatravas that were in display. I hit the target of $500,000 in less than a year and ask for a Nautilus, and he states will be 9 month wait. Month after month it was nothing but a lame bs story. Been 14 months have not received it and decided not to spend a other penny there.

I know many situations with guys like me who they lied to in WOS..........RUN and don't trust a word they say. Management is corrupt on all levels, sales associates will tell you anything you want to hear in order to receive their 2% commission on your purchases. Please do yourself a favor and find yourself another reputable AD.

They are a SCAM and dishonest Assholes who sell only to friends of family etc.

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I am crazy too…. But not like this
From the start you better buy any Patek you want paying grey price…. And don’t care from the rest…
You spent 700000k and wait from 14 months….. sorry my friend that’s foolish….

[Mrngrz46]

Originally Posted by Patekaddict

Wow where do I begin.... I have been a client of WOS in NYC since the opening of the store. First I was dealing with a sales guy for about 9 months and spent about 200k with him on Rolex etc in order to Acquire a Patek, my sales guy leaves the company without informing any of his clients and I was given a new associate who basically told me Sorry but I have to start from Scratch and everything I spend means nothing.

So I start a new relationship with him (really nice guy and very straight forward) basically tells me bluntly if I spend around 500k withing a year I then qualify for any Nautilus I want. So I go ahead and start buying Rolex watches and Breitling as gifts for employees and a few Calatravas that were in display. I hit the target of $500,000 in less than a year and ask for a Nautilus, and he states will be 9 month wait. Month after month it was nothing but a lame bs story. Been 14 months have not received it and decided not to spend a other penny there.

I know many situations with guys like me who they lied to in WOS..........RUN and don't trust a word they say. Management is corrupt on all levels, sales associates will tell you anything you want to hear in order to receive their 2% commission on your purchases. Please do yourself a favor and find yourself another reputable AD.

They are a SCAM and dishonest Assholes who sell only to friends of family etc.

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Wait wait you spend 700k and at the end you got nothing but you run a company...

Something wrong here.

[Duckman25]

Originally Posted by fsprow

Probably the worst salespeople I've ever dealt with (and that is a challenge) in their NYC location(s). Never again.

Like most of these jewelers. Then when you resell to them, they make you look like you are a dumb nincompoop.

[jonnythrust]

I found the staff at WOS Regent Street in London to be rather disinterested. Fairly poor service tbh.

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[Ubiquitous1984]

I have used the WoS in Manchester, UK to purchase my 5146r and 5712/1A.

The service has been straight forward and honest. They were very clear that if I wanted to be put on a list for a sports watch, I would need to buy something else from them. But they also made it clear that if I did buy the 5146r I would definitely get the sports watch - even if it meant waiting a few years. It wasn't a means to trick me into buying a less in demand watch.

As luck would have it I was allocated the 5712/1A less than six months after purchasing the 5146r, which was a superb outcome. They held their side of the bargain.

I am regularly contacted through whatsapp with general updates about the latest watches which I find interesting. I have also been invited to a Patek event in their store later this month.

During the lockdown they put on a few virtual events showcasing the whole range and detailing the history of the brand. These were very entertaining.

I trust them to do what they say they will do, which is all I really want from my AD.

[cascavel]

Two things I've learned about the watch market since 2005:
1)Salespeople at ADs, Boutiques and even the watch experts at auction houses, have a very short job life expectancy. Building a relationship with them is pointless.
2)The days of getting "free money", in the form of watches that sell for huge premiums in the grey market, from ADs and Boutiques are over. One way or another, you are going to have to pay the going market price for your watch.
People new to the watch game who think they can schmooze their way into a Nautilus, Aquanaut, Royal Oak, Odysseus or pretty much any Journe must believe that the watch world is filled with a bunch of kindergarteners. It's not the case, these folks are sharks, no matter what you've heard.
You are going to have to pay FMP (full market price) for your watch. MSRP is reserved for Players, whoever they are.

[scurfa]

Originally Posted by cascavel

Two things I've learned about the watch market since 2005:
1)Salespeople at ADs, Boutiques and even the watch experts at auction houses, have a very short job life expectancy. Building a relationship with them is pointless.
2)The days of getting "free money", in the form of watches that sell for huge premiums in the grey market, from ADs and Boutiques are over. One way or another, you are going to have to pay the going market price for your watch.
People new to the watch game who think they can schmooze their way into a Nautilus, Aquanaut, Royal Oak, Odysseus or pretty much any Journe must believe that the watch world is filled with a bunch of kindergarteners. It's not the case, these folks are sharks, no matter what you've heard.
You are going to have to pay FMP (full market price) for your watch. MSRP is reserved for Players, whoever they are.

I agree and it’s only going to get worse


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[Mike507]

Originally Posted by Patekaddict

the only flipper I see here is a little boy who has a 3.5 inch wrist who buys a 44mm AP that looks like a clock on your wrist......... what a joke. Grow up before you come here and comment maybe you want to own a patek first and only then come sit with the big boys.Attachment 1243783

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Wow. Congrats on being a big boy though.

[TimepieceRPP]

Originally Posted by cascavel

Two things I've learned about the watch market since 2005:
1)Salespeople at ADs, Boutiques and even the watch experts at auction houses, have a very short job life expectancy. Building a relationship with them is pointless.
2)The days of getting "free money", in the form of watches that sell for huge premiums in the grey market, from ADs and Boutiques are over. One way or another, you are going to have to pay the going market price for your watch.
People new to the watch game who think they can schmooze their way into a Nautilus, Aquanaut, Royal Oak, Odysseus or pretty much any Journe must believe that the watch world is filled with a bunch of kindergarteners. It's not the case, these folks are sharks, no matter what you've heard.
You are going to have to pay FMP (full market price) for your watch. MSRP is reserved for Players, whoever they are.

So true, esp the 1st point. They come and go quickly

[PattayaHammerTime]

WOS Royal Exchange London fobbed me off that they were pulling away from being an AD of PP a couple of years ago so I went ahead and established a connection with the actual PP boutique in New Bond St, 4 months later and after a couple of visits and a few emails I got a call to say a piece is here if still interested? I was there the next day and walked away with my 5164a very pleased!
I have worked in sales and got to say the service and reception I got from WOS first of all makes me never want to give them any business in the future, just because they didn't have what I was asking for, I have had clients who came to my office for a condo and ended up buying a house, the WOS in London now have zero in their windows to offer unless you want the new Bond watch!

[TimepieceRPP]

Originally Posted by PattayaHammerTime

WOS Royal Exchange London fobbed me off that they were pulling away from being an AD of PP a couple of years ago so I went ahead and established a connection with the actual PP boutique in New Bond St, 4 months later and after a couple of visits and a few emails I got a call to say a piece is here if still interested? I was there the next day and walked away with my 5164a very pleased!
I have worked in sales and got to say the service and reception I got from WOS first of all makes me never want to give them any business in the future, just because they didn't have what I was asking for, I have had clients who came to my office for a condo and ended up buying a house, the WOS in London now have zero in their windows to offer unless you want the new Bond watch!

Same experience with the Rolex. I had had a long relationship with this AD and suddenly they were no longer the Rolex dealer and I have to move to another branch. Completely waste of time. Glad you have your 5164a.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by llngoc

Finally someone who has the same experience at the Union Square Tiffany. Over a year ago, I was looking for a 7118 for my wife before it was even hot and Tiffany Union Square told me quite straight that in order to get a watch from them, I need to be a client with 500k+ spend on other things.

In area with a lot of high spenders like NYC or Silicon Valley, the threshold for spending is indeed very high.

not true - I forgot the name of the French/ Swiss ? manager that is the PP rep at Tiffany Union square but when I chatted with him prior to covid when my wife went there a few weekends in a row to get some jewelry repaired, he basically told about a guy that gradually started buying PPs in the case and that he told him off the bat he wanted to be a player/ collector and he got his nautilus after 350-400k or so. He said every case is different and jewelry obviously helps a lot too but this specific example was only a PP buyer.

[RoscoPico]

Originally Posted by scurfa

This is bonkers and now makes Patek obsolete in my eyes, they are no longer for watch enthusiasts, it’s no good having an interest in a brand that have unobtainable watches, Patek is now pointless, I’m moving on.


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been of this mind for some time now. still would like to own a few hot models, but happy to not own them if the situation remains the same

Originally Posted by dauster

not true - I forgot the name of the French/ Swiss ? manager that is the PP rep at Tiffany Union square but when I chatted with him prior to covid when my wife went there a few weekends in a row to get some jewelry repaired, he basically told about a guy that gradually started buying PPs in the case and that he told him off the bat he wanted to be a player/ collector and he got his nautilus after 350-400k or so. He said every case is different and jewelry obviously helps a lot too but this specific example was only a PP buyer.

did you end up getting anything yet ? i sort of gave up my hunt. i did get a few notifications about customer trade-ins at Kerns. less than online gray price, but still higher than msrp

[dauster]

Originally Posted by RoscoPico

been of this mind for some time now. still would like to own a few hot models, but happy to not own them if the situation remains the same



did you end up getting anything yet ? i sort of gave up my hunt. i did get a few notifications about customer trade-ins at Kerns. less than online gray price, but still higher than msrp

AP and Rolex yes, PP no luck. I feel like I am too poor to play, which is fine. If I could buy a 5172G or a World timer and get a hot piece for sure I'd be interested in playing "the game" but that's no longer a possibility so I am on the sidelines for now.

[dchang81]

funny a salesperson told me 150k last year to get a nautilus. i laughed but that's a bargain these days.

[QuantumOceanLawyer]

I was told (basically without asking) if I bought two Vacheron’s that I was looking at that I could get a Batman in two months, a Pepsi or black date sub in 3-4 months, or a green sub in 4-6 months.


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[David001]

Originally Posted by Patekaddict

Wow where do I begin.... I have been a client of WOS in NYC since the opening of the store. First I was dealing with a sales guy for about 9 months and spent about 200k with him on Rolex etc in order to Acquire a Patek, my sales guy leaves the company without informing any of his clients and I was given a new associate who basically told me Sorry but I have to start from Scratch and everything I spend means nothing.

So I start a new relationship with him (really nice guy and very straight forward) basically tells me bluntly if I spend around 500k withing a year I then qualify for any Nautilus I want. So I go ahead and start buying Rolex watches and Breitling as gifts for employees and a few Calatravas that were in display. I hit the target of $500,000 in less than a year and ask for a Nautilus, and he states will be 9 month wait. Month after month it was nothing but a lame bs story. Been 14 months have not received it and decided not to spend a other penny there.

I know many situations with guys like me who they lied to in WOS..........RUN and don't trust a word they say. Management is corrupt on all levels, sales associates will tell you anything you want to hear in order to receive their 2% commission on your purchases. Please do yourself a favor and find yourself another reputable AD.

They are a SCAM and dishonest Assholes who sell only to friends of family etc.

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Strange, because in 2019 you posted that you have 35 Patek watches and have spent millions of dollars with your AD.

Yet in 2021 you can't get a single Patek from WOS.

Originally Posted by Patekaddict

I understand your frustration and would be upset too. But fortunately after a 15 year relationship and millions of dollars spend not only on watches from the same AD and being a 2nd generation client this is the gratitude and generosity from the AD. My collection is much more than nautilus the 35 pieces in my current collection 70% of them are complications and grand complications. And please let's keep it civil.

Nothing personal, but for these reasons why I never post here and keep things private.

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[Patekaddict]

Originally Posted by David001

Strange, because in 2019 you posted that you have 35 Patek watches and have spent millions of dollars with your AD.



Yet in 2021 you can't get a single Patek from WOS.

I have over 35 Pateks at this point in my collection and as I stated I started a relationship with WOS and have spend close to 700k with them and haven't received a Nautilus that I have asked for and for that reason will never do business with them ever.

Most serious collectors don't just have 1 AD in case you didn't know. I started with WOS because they made serious promises and wanted a consistency buyer who will be no only buying rolex and patek but everything else. And I did my part they on the other hand are nothing but a scam.

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[Mini2]

Originally Posted by David001

Strange, because in 2019 you posted that you have 35 Patek watches and have spent millions of dollars with your AD.

Yet in 2021 you can't get a single Patek from WOS.

I need a coffee - things are getting serious

[jon_jon]

First I would say WoS in the UK are quite different from WoS in the US. The parent company is based in the UK IIRC, but have opened up several stores in the US and have purchased other retail watch/jewelry store chains outside the UK.

I believe most, if not all, of the WoS stores in the US have opened within the past 2-3 years. The Nautilus and Aquanaut craze started around 3-4 years ago. So US WoS customers will have a very different experience from UK WoS customers.

In major financial hubs like NYC, London, there will always be bigger whales than what you see in an average city. If you spent $100k at an AD, there will be many who spent $300k-$400k. If you spent $1mil, there will be someone who spent several million at the AD. All of customers are not just local customers, but also they come from all over the world to NYC, London, etc for business and pleasure. I know of many who fly regularly to NYC or London for shopping sprees.

We live in a very unusual time with the SS watch craze. Some people are in it purely for the profit and flipping opportunity and others are in it for IG posts and for other motivation. Even here on TRF, it is very hard to discern those who have registered new over the past 2-4 years if they are genuine watch people or are here for other reasons.

I have had fairly good experience with WoS London and I remember when the Regent Store location first opened, I was given a personal tour of the building and invited to coffee in a private viewing room. I have visited that store location several times since, although I have noticed quite a turnover in staff, which is not uncommon in retail sales.