5513 WGS Potential Purchase

[sakevi]

i have been perusing the FSOT for a while for my first vintage piece for daily wear and this 5513 caught my attention with the attractive patina and rich dark dial.

any huge red flags? states insert is later, any idea on MK/year? also curious as it has a 5512 caseback, which i have seen on a few listings. tried to look up a few guides but still very new to this and always trying to learn!
priced at 8500usd.
i'd attach the link but i'm still a n00b.

let me know what you guys think. thank you all for the constant invaluable resources and inspiration!

[shammad10]

Happy to be corrected- but in my eyes-
Case looks over polished a bit and re-cut- based on the springbar protruding from the left top lug in the top pic. Also very close on the bottom left. Case has then been recut with chamfers.
Cannot tell about the right side as no photo there.
Crown guards look okay to me.

Yes there are some 5513 with 5512 casabacks from the early 80's
Looks like an original bicchierini dial with a nice lume, but some ?spots on it.
Yes replacement insert
Hands look like they may be the original hands, or they could be later tritium ones.

[1675-David]

As mentioned very slim lugs.

[Dan S]

A matter of personal taste, obviously, but I don't find the dramatically mismatched color of hands and dial to be very appealing.

[hutch300]

This watch has been for sale for a while. The case is a deal breaker for me.

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by Dan S

A matter of personal taste, obviously, but I don't find the dramatically mismatched color of hands and dial to be very appealing.

this watch looks like it has been reassembled from parts found left and right.
One dial with mismatching hands, with service bezel non matching caseback, bezel new on thin case .....

[indianmachine]

feel like I've seen this watch before, whose site is it on?

[Proto3]

For $8500, you kind of get what you pay for.

[XavierM]

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

this watch looks like it has been reassembled from parts found left and right.
One dial with mismatching hands, with service bezel non matching caseback, bezel new on thin case .....

IMO 5512 caseback is perfectly fine here.
Regarding the hands, there seems to be a lot of collectors believing that this is perfectly fine for this period (no personal opinion here)
Service insert is unfortunately quite common on vintage sub and GMT…

[XavierM]

Originally Posted by Proto3

For $8500, you kind of get what you pay for.

+1 and looking at some pieces, this one is not too bad in terms of pricing…

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by XavierM

IMO 5512 caseback is perfectly fine here.

Nope...I don't think so ...
It would be eventually fine for a watch from the 60ies, but not for a watch from the 80ies...

The 5512 reference was not existing anymore when Rolex introduced the bicchierini dial.... ( bicchierini dial was introduced approx 5 years after the 5512 was out of the line up)....

edit : for the service insert I am with you....

[indianmachine]

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

Nope...I don't think so ...
It would be eventually fine for a watch from the 60ies, but not for a watch from the 80ies...

The 5512 reference was not existing anymore when Rolex introduced the bicchierini dial.... ( bicchierini dial was introduced approx 5 years after the 5512 was out of the line up)....

edit : for the service insert I am with you....

I agree with XavierM that 5512 caseback is a-ok here.

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by indianmachine

I agree with XavierM that 5512 caseback is a-ok here.

I might be wrong, but I gave my counter argument :-)

I see no reason why a 5512 caseback would be on a watch assembled by rolex 5 years or more after the end of production of 5512.

[XavierM]

Rolex using an already produced stock of 5512 caseback.

If looking at big seller archives, you’ll see this is the standard configuration for 5513 at the end of production (impossible to have so many watches with a “wrong” caseback)

[hutch300]

Originally Posted by indianmachine

feel like I've seen this watch before, whose site is it on?

25Dials

I could never get past that case

[Dan S]

The OP seems to have done a fly-by.

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by XavierM

Rolex using an already produced stock of 5512 caseback.

If looking at big seller archives, you’ll see this is the standard configuration for 5513 at the end of production (impossible to have so many watches with a “wrong” caseback)

you 're certainly right , i found this with the same config ...
https://www.vintagewatches.it/en/pro...al-box-papers/

i new this was a std in the 60ies but i am surprise that even after end of production o 5512 they continued to use this ref caseback till late 80ies....

[sakevi]

Originally Posted by Dan S

The OP seems to have done a fly-by.

don’t worry, i’m still here dan 😀.
thanks all for your input, and some of the not so useful insight!

looking now i do notice the spring bars poking through the polished case.

is there any way to detail the age of the service insert? still learning!

[harry in montreal]

It’s not bad. The insert looks very recent. What I suggest is look at HQMilton’s watches. You can look up 5513 and you get a pile. His photos are super consistent. Focus on the thickness of the lugs, the shape of the crown guards. The dial condition. The inserts. After looking at 100 watches, you begin to understand how to assess condition. Take some time

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by XavierM

Rolex using an already produced stock of 5512 caseback.

If looking at big seller archives, you’ll see this is the standard configuration for 5513 at the end of production (impossible to have so many watches with a “wrong” caseback)

I've seen both 5513s and 1680s with service '5512' casebacks.

I guess back in the day, they got replaced with whatever was on the shelf - as you suggest, probably a load of pre-produced stock.