Buyer Beware Tesla

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Not entirely true. Modern cars burn fuel very efficiently. The exhaust is pretty clean. And power plants are cleaner than they used to be, but not as clean as you claim.

You're also forgetting about the lost energy in the power lines and switch gear enroute to your house. Those inefficiencies waste a lot of energy. Whereas, the car is converting fuel directly to propulsive energy (there is heat loss, but power plants also have heat loss making steam for the turbines).

The short answer is that electric cars aren't any cleaner than a gas burner. The sixth grade science pitched by EV marketers doesn't account for all the inefficiencies, polluting power sources, and toxic wastes that the EV's bring to the party. The difference, as another poster said, is that you are relocating the pollution to someone else's backyard.

As for hydrogen, most of that comes from fossil fuels (steam reforming methane) these days. Refining hydrogen is as polluting as burning fossil fuels. Unless you use nuclear power for electrolysis, but nobody wants nuclear plants in the US either.

It’s true, cars today are something like 99.96% cleaner then they were just 20 years ago, and you are right about propagation loss and other inefficiencies in the transfer of power from the plant to the plug, but what if that power came from renewable sources? Wind/Solar. I know there is pollution created when you build solar panels etc, but you can not convince me that the renewable power source is not cleanER then a coal-fired power plant. Even if 20% of the power in recharging an electric car is from renewable sources, I submit that is still cleanER then conventional coal or oil fired power plants. Is it the final solution? No, maybe not, but at least it’s a step in the right direction.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

It’s true, cars today are something like 99.96% cleaner then they were just 20 years ago, and you are right about propagation loss and other inefficiencies in the transfer of power from the plant to the plug, but what if that power came from renewable sources? Wind/Solar. I know there is pollution created when you build solar panels etc, but you can not convince me that the renewable power source is not cleanER then a coal-fired power plant. Even if 20% of the power in recharging an electric car is from renewable sources, I submit that is still cleanER then conventional coal or oil fired power plants. Is it the final solution? No, maybe not, but at least it’s a step in the right direction.

Renewable sources are localized. You need wind or a lot of sunny days. Not everyone has those, so a large area of the world can't do renewables and will have to stick to fossil fuels. Renewables are also heavily subsidized, so not necessarily an affordable alternative when all costs are considered.

When the car itself can charge its own batteries with solar energy, you'll have something. But battery and electric motor efficiency aren't there yet. So what we have now is a pollution transfer system. You get cleanER air and the guy down the road gets dirtiER air.

As long as people can inexpensively plug into the dirty power plant three towns over, no one will build an electric car that doesn't need to be plugged in, which is the real solution to the problem.

[timedate]

when we burn fossil fuels, we are burning and releasing gases that were once on this earth anyway, the entire eco system of nature was designed to cope with this pollution, to deal with it, with its sheer enormity, the carbon dioxide is essential for trees and plants which is all elementary science,

however i do believe that you need to keep pollution in all its forms away from people, to reduce the pollution in the air we breathe, this is just a given really,

When i look at my diesel van and go through all of the things that have been fitted to this vehicle to reduce pollution, i have a feeling that the task of getting it 'clean' has been achieved,

here is what it has,

catalytic convertor
ERG valve
Diesel particulate filter
Turbocharger
Adblue emissions additive

When you stand behind it, you can barely smell anything, it blows no smoke whatsoever,

i wouldnt mind betting that my van is cleaner than any electric car taking all things into consideration.

[Etschell]

Matter can neither be created or destroyed. Pollution doesn't exist in a cosmic sense.

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by Etschell

Matter can neither be created or destroyed. Pollution doesn't exist in a cosmic sense.

Nonsense, I can destroy a double cheeseburger and a pint of beer in 5min!

[Art 1]

Originally Posted by bayerische

Nonsense, I can destroy a double cheeseburger and a pint of beer in 5min!

[Etschell]

felt compelled to post this:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/t...015826279.html

be careful.

[enjoythemusic]

No worries, Musk will come up with some new Dreamer Scheme to get money to 'reserve' your car. Tesla seems to be losing key personnel right and left nowadays. Have also read that making the batteries for their cars does a lot of harm to the environment.

Has anyone here received their $35,000 Tesla yet?

[tritium8]

Originally Posted by Etschell

felt compelled to post this:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/t...015826279.html

be careful.

Obviously not good, especially with all eyes on you but I believe all of the vehicle fires so far have been explained and not so random but we will see.

Just as an FYI - https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Resear...s-and-patterns

It's not so uncommon....

"In 2003-2007, U.S. fire departments responded to an average of 287,000 vehicle fires per year. These fires caused an average of 480 civilian deaths, 1,525 civilian injuries, and $1.3 billion in direct property damage annually."

[stockae92]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

No worries, Musk will come up with some new Dreamer Scheme to get money to 'reserve' your car. Tesla seems to be losing key personnel right and left nowadays. Have also read that making the batteries for their cars does a lot of harm to the environment.

Has anyone here received their $35,000 Tesla yet?

He did?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQgjY2SRrck

I haven't watch this vid yet, but I frequent his other review vid.

[enjoythemusic]

Wow, so one in the wild. That's one. Anyone else here actually get one? Anyone?

It's great news as soon they'll be stocking the $35k unit as they are now doing others models so you can just buy it 'off the lot'. Good to know the back log is over for some models too.

[gabrielnovar]

the summon mode and new self driving video are awesome.

I wish Mercedes/rover someone damn cool bought them out and integrated tech. I don't like the look of the cars, but the tech is amazing!!!

[Gravity]

Guy lives on an Island and has a 6 year old model. Tesla models and build quality have improved exponentially over the past several years. Granted, Tesla can improve on many things but they have literally changed the auto industry world wide which is no small feat. You really have to own one, or borrow one for a month, to appreciate it. I've always been a performance car nut and gave Tesla a shot two years ago when I decided to upgrade my SUV ( Chevy Tahoe) and bought a 2017 Tesla Model X. I have been so impressed with this car I ended up selling most of my others. It's hard to believe, but petrol cars just seem obsolete and archaic in comparison and this isn't just me. Have heard many others feel the same and rarely do I find anyone bashing Tesla who owns one, aside from some service complaints as I believe they are selling so many cars now their service infrastructure has to catch up.

My Model X is sharp looking, seats 7, a technological marvel, drives itself, best interface I've ever had on a vehicle, just as fast as a $300k super car (faster than many), haven't visited a gas station in over two years and believe it or not have never had an issue with it.

It's a personal preference and I can see some situations where they range may not be suitable for people who drive several hundred miles a day or live far away from the city and service centers ect. I get 300 miles on a charge and never have an issue and these will be over 600 miles in about a year. Took several road trips and had no problem using the supercharger network on the way. Ultimately Tesla has done something phenomenal and while they might not always be the leader in the industry, they certainly have started a global change in transportation and energy.

[tritium8]

Originally Posted by Gravity

Dang, your X looks sharp! I originally wanted black but ended up with white. Who did all the extras (wrap, tint, chrome delete)? It looks great.

I'm sure you saw today but the long range version of the X now goes 325 miles and that's basically just due to a change in the front motor.

[enjoythemusic]

Would like to personally thank Elon as he has single-handedly made my friends lots of $$$. The moment 420 was announced, it was payday from then on. Many, many thanks Elon, we could not have done it without your wonderful tweets.

[gabrielnovar]

Despite what anyone says tesla safety profile and miles logged under auto pilot are near 100X better than any other car company.

they are more of a tech/data company vs a car.

Every other system is so far behind tesla its crazy.

With these companies you don't buy for the balance sheet. You buy for the fact that they are forcing everyone else to compete against them. As long as their are buyers of the car debt/funding doesn't matter there will always be investors ready to plug in capital.

Long term worth a shot in the 100s

edit: add in the Semi/powerwall/solar hook up and being able to sell power back to the grid= moon

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Would like to personally thank Elon as he has single-handedly made my friends lots of $$$. The moment 420 was announced, it was payday from then on. Many, many thanks Elon, we could not have done it without your wonderful tweets.

I'm trying to figure out if you have a bigger hardon for Tesla or the VW Group.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

I'm trying to figure out if you have a bigger hardon for Tesla or the VW Group.

Oooooh, good question! How about, hmmmm.... hard to say. Stiff competition, with flaccid results depending on the metrics employed.

[TheVTCGuy]

Bottom line IMHO, is that as Steven pointed out, Tesla has made extraordinary progress in to alternative powered vehicles. Is electric the answer or is Hydrogen? If electric is the answer is Tesla the best company to buy one from and will they flourish? I don’t have the answers to any of these questions but we as a society HAVE to find an alternative to oil, for a variety of reasons. Anybody that makes strides in that direction I support.

[enjoythemusic]

Decades ago I admired Brazil using LPG in cars. Cheaper to use, burns cleaner, and you get more power output. It's actually not that hard to convert many modern vehicles to use that as well. Gas stations offered it so no worries about miles traveled limitation because it was just like any other gas station.

My next vehicle will use solar wind :-)

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Decades ago I admired Brazil using LPG in cars. Cheaper to use, burns cleaner, and you get more power output. It's actually not that hard to convert many modern vehicles to use that as well. Gas stations offered it so no worries about miles traveled limitation because it was just like any other gas station.

My next vehicle will use solar wind :-)

I'll buy the burns cleaner piece, but not the more energy output for LPG. LPG is around 91,000 BTU/gal, gas around 124,000 BTU/gal, and diesel around 139,000 BTU/gal. Energy is power, and you get quite a bit more energy out of gas and diesel than you do out of LPG.

LPG comes from crude oil and gas deposits, so we're not getting away from fossil fuels using it. Ethanol uses about 1.1 barrels of petroleum to produce a barrel of alcohol in its life cycle, so no help there either.

Pretty sure solar wind is toxic. What kind of shielding will this ride have to keep you from getting ionized by charged particles?

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I'll buy the burns cleaner piece, but not the more energy output for LPG. LPG is around 91,000 BTU/gal, gas around 124,000 BTU/gal, and diesel around 139,000 BTU/gal. Energy is power, and you get quite a bit more energy out of gas and diesel than you do out of LPG.

LPG comes from crude oil and gas deposits, so we're not getting away from fossil fuels using it. Ethanol uses about 1.1 barrels of petroleum to produce a barrel of alcohol in its life cycle, so no help there either.

Pretty sure solar wind is toxic. What kind of shielding will this ride have to keep you from getting ionized by charged particles?

Too late, he already has been inundated with charged particles... that’s why his head is nodding left and right all the time (see avatar).

[Albusdabbledore]

My amg has self driving features and tbh that’s the literal only thing about Tesla’s besides the huge iPad screen that I enjoy. I prefer something less fragile than an ev and I hear if you start using features in your car that 300 miles turns to 150 real fast


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[Gravity]

Originally Posted by tritium8

Dang, your X looks sharp! I originally wanted black but ended up with white. Who did all the extras (wrap, tint, chrome delete)? It looks great.

I'm sure you saw today but the long range version of the X now goes 325 miles and that's basically just due to a change in the front motor.

Thx. Had Wrap Bullys do it. The specialize in Teslas and do them regularly for most of the motion picture studio execs too. They do great work.

[-lenny-]

Originally Posted by Gravity

Thx. Had Wrap Bullys do it. The specialize in Teslas and do them regularly for most of the motion picture studio execs too. They do great work.

I’ve not sat in a Tesla, so I have nothing to gauge the space by. But have you really had 7 adults in there? Looking at them it doesn’t seem possible, even with two in the trunk? Definitely intriguing.

[tritium8]

Originally Posted by -lenny-

I’ve not sat in a Tesla, so I have nothing to gauge the space by. But have you really had 7 adults in there? Looking at them it doesn’t seem possible, even with two in the trunk? Definitely intriguing.

The back 2 seats are bigger/roomier than my Q7s back 2 seats were. The X also has a ton of storage (under the trunk, the frunk, etc), which I utilize to the fullest. It's a smaller package but does a good job maximizing space....as they should, no engine, "transmission", etc.

[irocku]

Thx for sharing, thats really bad service that I’ve heard of.


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[Gravity]

Interesting heads up and pretty predictable result.

[Gravity]

Rich Benoit was on Rogan yesterday. He now owns 2 Teslas and loves them lol Amazing how haters spin his story. The car he was rebuilding was a flooded salvage title and Tesla doesn't sell parts to rebuild salvage cars, especially water damage, for liability reasons, which I think is more than understandable.

[Kowaco]

This didn’t age well


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