An Argument For Routine Maintenance...

[Tim Wells]

"Originally Posted by cwru32
may be some watchmaker can tell me why they need to disassemble the watch before putting it back together n lubricating it?!?! why they dont wash it enbloc?"

The reason for this is that a movement cannot be properly cleaned or inspected without taking it apart totally. In higher grade watches the hole jewels will have cap jewels also, especially in the escapement which is a perfect place to trap dried oil that an ultrasonic won't always remove.

Old oil, especially if it is dried up or something that has sat for 20 years and had not been overhauled since 10-20 years before it was placed in that dusty old box you just pulled it out of, you will find gummy or hard varnish that used to be oil. Older oils that we used had animal fats in them and they were particularly bad about gumming up and it didn't take no twenty years either, plus that stuff stinks.

Today we use synthetic oils and lubricants that hold up better, longer, lubricate better, have a better capillary attraction action and don't dry up like the old oils did. I learned to "peg" my jewels and I still do this even though I have various ultrasonic cleaning machines. You take a piece of orangewood or osage orange and sharpen it to a point like a pencil and stick it into the pivot holes and twirl it just like cleaning your ears with a Q-tip.

To mechanically, physically remove any ubstruction in the hole jewel and any caked up grease or what have you, I am certain that there will be no issue later on; the ultrasonic will do the rest.

I specialize in old aircraft 8 day clocks and in the case of a Hamilton 37500 that has several hundred parts in it; when you're done with it and it goes out the door, you don't want it back because of negligence or laziness on your part. Do it right,... once.

Someone mentioned something about frequency of servicing referring to old slow movements vs newer faster ones. My thinking on that is that old movements such as old gents watches and pocket watches whether they are 17+ jewel movements or low grade 7 or less jewel movements with brass train bushings; required more frequent servicing than movements of today rather than the other way around.

My reasoning for this is that the oils broke down faster then, didn't lube as well, and the tolerances were not quite as tight as now, particularly in the lower grade movements. Now compare that with a modern movement.

Hardened pivots; all of them, sapphire or ruby jewels which are both right under a diamond in hardness on a Mohs scale and they're all slicker than a bell pepper; no brass bushing can be that smooth.

The jewel holes providing they're not cracked don't wear, the pivots do if dirty or not oiled properly. Modern synthetic lubricants are far superior to anything made in the past when every town had a few watchmakers to go around and didn't have to sell jewelry to stay busy. The life of oils are much better now and consequently do their job longer and to me the required maintenance schedule on any modern high grade movement is less frequent than in days of old for all those reasons.

My diesel truck with dinosoar oil will require changing 2-3 times more often than when I use fully synthetic oil. This is because it wears a lot better and doesn't break down and this isn't from some sales hype, I actually have my oil tested to see what the facts are. I don't use anything but synthetic for a reason and that's a fact. Same goes for watches, we have better stuff nowdays and things work better, last longer and require less upkeep because of it.

Sorry for the novel length post.

[Dr. DiveWatch]

Great thread! How about this question....

What does everyone think about "Rolex certified" watchmakers at various upscale jewelery stores/Rolex dealers doing the service vs. sending it in to RSC for the maintenance?? Is there really such a thing? I would think it would be cheaper than sending to RSC (and perhaps quicker). I can't imagine parts being worn down & needing replaced on an every 5 year maintenance schedule. Perhaps sending to RSC for complete overhaul every 10-15 years, but have local certified watchmaker service it every 5 until then??

Anyone ever done that and been happy/satisfied knowing all Rolex parts and Rolex trained watchmaker. (I read the one post about the GMT2 maintenance at Ben Bridge and wondered).

[walds11]

I haven't done it yet, but plan on doing it with my SS Sub Date Y series. There is a well-known local guy downtown that does it. I can drop the watch off and pick it up. I wouldn't mind saving a few hundred bucks on a routine service.

Originally Posted by Dr. DiveWatch

Great thread! How about this question....

What does everyone think about "Rolex certified" watchmakers at various upscale jewelery stores/Rolex dealers doing the service vs. sending it in to RSC for the maintenance?? Is there really such a thing? I would think it would be cheaper than sending to RSC (and perhaps quicker). I can't imagine parts being worn down & needing replaced on an every 5 year maintenance schedule. Perhaps sending to RSC for complete overhaul every 10-15 years, but have local certified watchmaker service it every 5 until then??

Anyone ever done that and been happy/satisfied knowing all Rolex parts and Rolex trained watchmaker. (I read the one post about the GMT2 maintenance at Ben Bridge and wondered).

[Tools]

I have had a couple done at my local AD Watchmaker. He is Rolex trained and contracted.. The results were as good as I have had from an RSC.. The only issue is that he doesn't give it back in a Rolex service box, and you don't get the little pouch. However, since the price is a basic flat-rate, it is the same as an RSC cost. So, you can see the work being done and it doesn't take as long...but you do miss some of the RSC experience..

Originally Posted by Dr. DiveWatch

Great thread! How about this question....

What does everyone think about "Rolex certified" watchmakers at various upscale jewelery stores/Rolex dealers doing the service vs. sending it in to RSC for the maintenance?? Is there really such a thing? I would think it would be cheaper than sending to RSC (and perhaps quicker). I can't imagine parts being worn down & needing replaced on an every 5 year maintenance schedule. Perhaps sending to RSC for complete overhaul every 10-15 years, but have local certified watchmaker service it every 5 until then??

Anyone ever done that and been happy/satisfied knowing all Rolex parts and Rolex trained watchmaker. (I read the one post about the GMT2 maintenance at Ben Bridge and wondered).

[cody p]

just re-read this thread... great original post. i'm thinking somewhere between 7/8 years and off to the rsc in toronto, ontario, canada she'll go.

[Rikki]

Other things to consider also is the diameter of the pivots on the newer gears is smaller meaning less surface area so faster wearing pivots. I rarely have to change gears on a 1530 but a 3135 or 3035 I have changed hundreds. Now add to the fact that everything is going faster and you can see where I'm going with this. Another example is and old seth thomas kitchen clock time and strike the pivots were a millimeter in diameter lots of surface area the newer Hermle modern westminster clocks the pivots half the size or smaller wear faster and cut right through the plates and burn out in 20 to 25 years the older kitchen clock that is 80 years old still going strong. Construction has as much to do with servicing as does technology. Why does it cost 8000 dollars a year to maintain a Ferrari and only 500 a year for a chevy. High performance costs money pure and simple. Rikki

[larrysb]

Originally Posted by cwru32

may be some watchmaker can tell me why they need to disassemble the watch before putting it back together n lubricating it?!?! why they dont wash it enbloc?

Can't get it truly clean if it isn't disassembled, and you can't put the oil where it is supposed to go.

I'm not a watchmaker, but for fun, I took a discarded Wakmann aircraft clock apart to see if I could get it running again. The Wakmann clocks are 8-day windup, 4-jewel swiss made movements. The design is just like a watch, but on a somewhat larger scale, (fits in a 2" panel cutout hole), so it is somewhat easier to work on for a beginner. The one I took apart was made in 1975 and spent some 30 years in a light, unpressurized turbocharged twin engine airplane. So it saw all kinds of heat and cold, dry and humidity, and altitude. It stopped running.

The dirt comes from two things, the environment to some extent, and the wear products of the parts grinding against each other. Also the lubricants dry up, turn into a sticky hard goo.

Some techs clean these things assembled. Just dunk 'em in the ultrasonic cleaner, squirt some oil here and there and call it good.

But that leaves dirt where it doesn't belong and oil can't go where it does belong.

Believe me, inspite of being sealed, that poor old Wakmann was dirty inside. I first tried to sponge it off with solvent and lint-free swabs. I got some of it. Then I dunked it in the sonic cleaner. Got even more. But looking really close, there was still goo in the bushings and the jewel bearings. I could see it with a microscope. So, without a manual to go by, I took it completely apart. Sure enough, there was still dirt and goo hiding in important places. Carefully cleaned each individual part. This time, no doubt and looking at it under a microscope revealed it was sparkling clean.

Lubing it is the other side of the coin. The jewels and lubrication points take miniscule amounts of lubricants. There's no way to get the tiny amounts of oil into the cups with the gear pinions still in there. Doing so externally would certainly mean overlubing, or smearing it into places where it doesn't belong.

I didn't have the exact right lubricants on hand, but I did have some intended for instruments, which are similar. Carefully applied in the right places, no excess, no drips.

Proud to say, that Wakmann is still on the shelf on my hangar, in the cold and heat and it still keeps pretty good time, in spite of being a bit worn out.

So when it comes time, the Rolex will go to the service center, to keep it working.

[RolexPete]

True story:

My father received a Rolex 16030 DJ in 1987 from a very close friend (wealthy). He wore it almost regularly until 2002 when I gave him a 14060 for his 60th birthday. He put it away atthat point, wearing it only occasionally. (He was retired at that point and had no need to know what the date was, so the 14060 suited him fine). He NEVER serviced the DJ in 22 years.

Jump forward to December, 2009. I remarked to him that he didn't really wear his DJ all that often, so it ended up in my hands. I sent it to a watchmaker that I had recently discovered in PA for service and to swap for a dial that I had bought.

The watchmaker did not need to replace ANY parts except for the mainspring (which he does as part of his routine servicing). $150 plus I had him replace the acrylic crystal ($30).

So, lack of servicing does not always equate to additional cost. My father wore his watch and never really abused it, so YMMV.

[redmoon]

I have a Date Just (Steel and Gold) and wear it everyday. Its normal use and never really abuse it. Although winters are really cold here in MA. Whats the recommended interval for having my watch serviced? I couldn't find anything specific on this on the rolex website.

Thanks.

[RolexPete]

Originally Posted by redmoon

I have a Date Just (Steel and Gold) and wear it everyday. Its normal use and never really abuse it. Although winters are really cold here in MA. Whats the recommended interval for having my watch serviced? I couldn't find anything specific on this on the rolex website.

Thanks.

Every 5 years.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by redmoon

I have a Date Just (Steel and Gold) and wear it everyday. Its normal use and never really abuse it. Although winters are really cold here in MA. Whats the recommended interval for having my watch serviced? I couldn't find anything specific on this on the rolex website.

Thanks.

Here is what Rolex has to say about servicing...

[redmoon]

Thanks Larry :)

[Horologier]

Great stuff here keep up the conversation!!!!

[RolexPete]

I love how Rolex says "depending on their wearing habits, about every five years". So, I guess the answer is, it depends?

[Kapture1]

I posted under another thread with no response... Would any of you trust your AD if they had the capability to perform the service themselves rather than sending your Rolex to the company?

The PROS would be only a week without my Rolex... and the cost is considerably less.

The CONS would be...


Im basically asking if you would trust your AD or just pay more, suffer a longer period of time without your Rolex and just send it to Rolex for the service directly?

[RolexPete]

I see no cons in using a local AD or a local competent watchmaker. I advise it. I have used Rolex NY 3 times and will never again.

[Vanessa CW21]

Originally Posted by Kapture1

I posted under another thread with no response... Would any of you trust your AD if they had the capability to perform the service themselves rather than sending your Rolex to the company?

The PROS would be only a week without my Rolex... and the cost is considerably less.

The CONS would be...


Im basically asking if you would trust your AD or just pay more, suffer a longer period of time without your Rolex and just send it to Rolex for the service directly?

Hi Matt, I guess that would really depend on the watchmaker's reputation, and if he or she is actually trained by Rolex and has a parts account with them.
The one week turn-a-round should be a concern IMO, since it takes a week to just time out the watch after service....
And if the watch repair lives up to the standard of Rolex, there shouldn't be a reason why the price would be considerably less than that of a RSC.

[SOG DIVER]

Required reading-IMHO. The dates of the original and comments go back 10-12
years but the relevancy is timeless. I strongly recommend review of this Rolex -related
maintenance thread for those who question service intervals, especially with
the faster beat calibers like the 3130 and 3135. Rolex oiling diagrams are also included
for those who appreciate detail. in some cases epilame, HP 1000, and Fixodrop
are specific lubes and are the ones chosen.

Bottom line: Your Rolex deserves regular servicing at intervals from 5-7 years.
Failure to clean and service at interval is at least equal to visiting Las Vegas.
The tall buildings were not built by the winners. Do you really feel lucky?

[jcross]

My AD told me to keep the watch running so the lubricants don't dry out as fast and to only service it when it stops running or I notice something wrong. His methodology was that I will end up paying the same price for a service whether the watch was running or not