Buyer Beware Tesla

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by tritium8

I'm on the fence but they are clearly doing a few things right.
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/09/09...car-in-the-us/

So... The data saying Tesla is doing something right comes from Twitter users?

Because of Tesla’s high starting price and compelling options, which are also expensive, Tesla’s average selling price for the Model 3 surged past $55,759 according to Twitter user Troy Teslike, who polls people who order Model 3s and publishes a variety of resulting statistics.

Propaganda masquerading as news.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

So... The data saying Tesla is doing something right comes from Twitter users?

Because of Tesla’s high starting price and compelling options, which are also expensive, Tesla’s average selling price for the Model 3 surged past $55,759 according to Twitter user Troy Teslike, who polls people who order Model 3s and publishes a variety of resulting statistics.

Propaganda masquerading as news.

Sounds comparable to a 3 series or c class mercedes. (I will take the german sedan lol)

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

So... The data saying Tesla is doing something right comes from Twitter users?

Propaganda masquerading as news.

Wonder if anyone is getting a 35k one yet shipped to tnem. Are they actually shipping those too, or just the high profit models?

Own a German car, the Tesla is not compelling or proven yet. BMW, Mercedes and others will have some great models in the next year or so, and customer service, parts availability, etc is a known good with BMW, etc.

As for Internet propaganda, would not be surprised. Plunge protection team in action LOL.

[johnjm]

People should open their eyes




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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by johnjm

People should open their eyes

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Then, there's this graph...

[77T]

The bonds are tumbling because others are more attractive. The shares are tumbling because only fanboys are betting on Musk pulling a rabbit out of his - - - um, hat...

If he wants to buy up shares after cratering billions in market cap, a stock repurchase plan at $300 would be appreciated.


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[enjoythemusic]

And then there are the upcoming lawsuits about $420 valuation.... Of course stock repurchasing (in general by many companies) has been a staple of propping up prices. Of course it helps if your companies has deep profits (Apple) to then buy back with ease.

How deep of profit pockets does TSLA have again to buy back stock?

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

And then there are the upcoming lawsuits about $420 valuation.... Of course stock repurchasing (in general by many companies) has been a staple of propping up prices. Of course it helps if your companies has deep profits (Apple) to then buy back with ease.

How deep of profit pockets does TSLA have again to buy back stock?

Now any color except basic black costs extra. Elon will have deep profits in no time.

[johnjm]

I a fan of Tesla big time and I have the utmost respect for Elon. It's the usual internet mobbing that is so common nowadays.

No idea what the outcome will be but either way he will start something new if he isn't at Tesla in the future.

Eccentricity isn't a bad thing, this saga reminds me of Steve Jobs being kicked out from Apple and look what happened there.

That said, my kids go to the same school he went to, and I do see things in a similar light as he did.

[Green Arrow]

Musk is a genius, but might be bipolar (in my lay person opinion only). His vision and risk taking makes him a man of the century, and if we end up with electric vehicles from Greeley/Volvo, Chevy, Ford, Jaguar, and Audi, we can thank Elon Musk.

Having said that, contractors working for him are afraid of him. He fires people on a whim, and is highly erratic. Not a nice guy.

Plus if he has Air Force contracts (per media, I have no inside knowledge) then public using of alcohol and drugs may violate his security agreements.

He is a visionary, but should stay CEO, hire a professional President, CFO, and HR Director and stay out of their way. Otherwise they will continue to leave, his bonds will continue to implode, and if his cachet is harmed, then further borrowing will be problematic.

I am a fan of his genius. Not so much of his business building, or team leading.

But if he asked me to lunch, I would cancel whatever I was doing and go. He is a once in a generation genius, and charismatic to boot.

[MinMay]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

So... The data saying Tesla is doing something right comes from Twitter users?

Because of Tesla’s high starting price and compelling options, which are also expensive, Tesla’s average selling price for the Model 3 surged past $55,759 according to Twitter user Troy Teslike, who polls people who order Model 3s and publishes a variety of resulting statistics.

Propaganda masquerading as news.

saw my friend's model 3 over the weekend....he paid 78K out the door. Wow. The inside door trim looked plastic and cheap. I felt the Honda 'Civic interior was nicer than the Model 3. I asked him what happen to the 35K advertisement? He laughed and said no such thing.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Now any color except basic black costs extra. Elon will have deep profits in no time.

Yup, reducing colors, charging extra for normal colors.... Maybe Elon should have simply made the Model T of eCars (any color you want provided it is factory stock black). These recent moves scream manufacturing problems and a search for 'easy' profits.

What next Elon? A Super Duper Exclusive 'Environmentally-Friendly Green' Color for $5000 upcharge only avil for 50 vehicles. You know, play on the human ego and all that to get something 'extra special' while building profits.

So AGAIN, how much profit/deep pockets does TSLA have to buy back stock to prop up said stock?

[johnjm]

What’s up with the illogical Tesla hate? Free market dictates that you don’t have to buy it if it’s too expensive. It’s the price you pay if you choose to be an early adopter.

I agree on the quality of the panels etc, and again, it’s a choice that one makes.


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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by johnjm

What’s up with the illogical Tesla hate? Free market dictates that you don’t have to buy it if it’s too expensive. It’s the price you pay if you choose to be an early adopter.

I agree on the quality of the panels etc, and again, it’s a choice that one makes.


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Tesla has hyped itself as the leader in green tech. It's actually pretty dirty tech, isn't particularly innovative, and Tesla is charging quite a lot for the privilege of being an early adopter. They have consistently over hyped the Model 3, promising an affordable version they don't intend to offer. The whole process has been pretty shady IMO.

If you want to be an early adopter of a reliable full electric that goes 240 miles on a charge, for about $36,000, Chevy will sell you a Bolt. Compare Elon hype to Chevy marketing and you can see why the Tesla propaganda is gathering disdain.

[Vaxe]

I agree Tesla’s business model is shady and full of broken promises/false advertisment, but Model 3 is an excellent value for the price. At $40k after incentives for a 300 mile range full EV, I don’t know of any car in the market that comes close. Even when Daimler releases their EV fleet, I don’t have a problem spending just $40k on a Tesla now since no one else is even remotely competitive (yet). It’s really a great car and I encourage trying it out, even if you hate Tesla/Musk.

My coworker has a Bolt and dreads it. Sat in my Model 3 and is now looking at closing the lease early to get in while the $10k tax credit is still around this year.

Would I buy it without the tax credit? Probably not.
With credit I actually think it’s a dollar stretcher and the perfect commute car.

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Tesla has hyped itself as the leader in green tech. It's actually pretty dirty tech, isn't particularly innovative, and Tesla is charging quite a lot for the privilege of being an early adopter. They have consistently over hyped the Model 3, promising an affordable version they don't intend to offer. The whole process has been pretty shady IMO.

If you want to be an early adopter of a reliable full electric that goes 240 miles on a charge, for about $36,000, Chevy will sell you a Bolt. Compare Elon hype to Chevy marketing and you can see why the Tesla propaganda is gathering disdain.

[enjoythemusic]

So when tax credits roll away it will indeed get more.... interesting.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

So when tax credits roll away it will indeed get more.... interesting.

So true, and we all know they will roll away.

Friend got model 3, I had a good at the ipad in the center. Looks absolutely awful. And those door handles? LMAO.

[Duey]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

So when tax credits roll away it will indeed get more.... interesting.

The tax credits are basically gone Now - $10K max Fed for this year. check with your CPA but here in the USA it's over.(you just won't feel it till April 2019)

[crew]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

So when tax credits roll away it will indeed get more.... interesting.

Just my opinion, but I think when the tax credits end the manufacturer(s) will reduce their prices. I’ve seen it before. Funny how that works.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Duey

The tax credits are basically gone Now - $10K max Fed for this year. check with your CPA but here in the USA it's over.(you just won't feel it till April 2019)

Is this the correct description?

The federal Internal Revenue Service (IRS) tax credit is for $2,500 to $7,500 per new EV purchased for use in the U.S. The size of the tax credit depends on the size of the vehicle and its battery capacity. To find out specific tax credit amounts for individual vehicles, visit FuelEconomy.gov’s Tax Credits for Electric Vehicles and Tax Credits for Plug-in Hybrids pages. This tax credit will be available until 200,000 qualified EVs have been sold in the United States by each manufacturer, at which point the credit begins to phase out for that manufacturer. Currently, no manufacturers have been phased out yet.

This link is showing a $7500 credit now, fading to less than $2k next year. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml

This assumes you have a tax liability that you can apply the credit to.

[Duey]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Is this the correct description?

The federal Internal Revenue Service (IRS) tax credit is for $2,500 to $7,500 per new EV purchased for use in the U.S. The size of the tax credit depends on the size of the vehicle and its battery capacity. To find out specific tax credit amounts for individual vehicles, visit FuelEconomy.gov’s Tax Credits for Electric Vehicles and Tax Credits for Plug-in Hybrids pages. This tax credit will be available until 200,000 qualified EVs have been sold in the United States by each manufacturer, at which point the credit begins to phase out for that manufacturer. Currently, no manufacturers have been phased out yet.

This link is showing a $7500 credit now, fading to less than $2k next year. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml

This assumes you have a tax liability that you can apply the credit to.

Yes it is BUT the max deduction is $10k all in. So if you deduct other thing like a mortgage interest or state and local property taxes as soon as you hit $10k it's over. It doesn't matter how much they give you ...

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Duey

Yes it is BUT the max deduction is $10k all in. So if you deduct other thing like a mortgage interest or state and local property taxes as soon as you hit $10k it's over. It doesn't matter how much they give you ...

So the 10K limit is credits and deductions. Good to know.

[77T]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

So when tax credits roll away it will indeed get more.... interesting.

I haven’t found the reference but I read somewhere that the majority of Tesla “buyers” are actually leasing - so there isn’t an FIT credit anyway., right?


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[V25V]

Originally Posted by 77T

I haven’t found the reference but I read somewhere that the majority of Tesla “buyers” are actually leasing - so there isn’t an FIT credit anyway., right?


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Shocking....


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[Vaxe]

In CA you get a $2500 check refund 2-3 months after application. PGE will also mail you a $500 check.
The other $7500 is federal tax credit, which is guaranteed if you take delivery by end of 2018.

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

... a reliable full electric that goes 240 miles on a charge,

What's the range on a full electric if someone is tries to drive the 240 miles from Fargo to Minneapolis in January when it's -20F? Won't using the heater combined with general cold temp inefficiency of batts drain them so quickly they'll find the car dark, powerless, with all occupants frozen to death inside somewhere on I-94 between Fergus Falls and St Cloud?

They seem like suicide machines for an average Upper Midwest/northern tier State winter unless Polar Kits/Survival gear are carried for any trip that involves leaving a town. Beware of them all, I say.

[btinl]

Originally Posted by Vaxe

In CA you get a $2500 check refund 2-3 months after application. PGE will also mail you a $500 check.
The other $7500 is federal tax credit, which is guaranteed if you take delivery by end of 2018.

There are income restrictions on that CA-specific $2500 check. Not eligible if gross annual income exceeds $150,000 for single tax filers, $204,000 for head of household filers and $300,000 for joint filers

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by CRM114

What's the range on a full electric if someone is tries to drive the 240 miles from Fargo to Minneapolis in January when it's -20F? Won't using the heater combined with general cold temp inefficiency of batts drain them so quickly they'll find the car dark, powerless, with all occupants frozen to death inside somewhere on I-94 between Fergus Falls and St Cloud?

They seem like suicide machines for an average Upper Midwest/northern tier State winter unless Polar Kits/Survival gear are carried for any trip that involves leaving a town. Beware of them all, I say.

Totally agree. IIRC Tesla and Chevy both lose a lot in the cold. EVs are most valuable in the city where low speeds minimize drag. EVs can be a highway driver, but the current state of the technology is best for the city. If your daily commute is 25 miles or less each way, the range is more than adequate. And you won't need a supercharger to charge it in your garage overnight.

I'm sticking with hybrids. I don't live in the city and drive long distances where there are no chargers. But there are gas stations everywhere.

[tbonesteak]

Originally Posted by johnjm

I a fan of Tesla big time and I have the utmost respect for Elon. It's the usual internet mobbing that is so common nowadays.

No idea what the outcome will be but either way he will start something new if he isn't at Tesla in the future.

Eccentricity isn't a bad thing, this saga reminds me of Steve Jobs being kicked out from Apple and look what happened there.

That said, my kids go to the same school he went to, and I do see things in a similar light as he did.

You mean similar to using your massive Twitter following to accuse someone of being a pedophiliac (3 times) after they rescued little children stranded in cave? That kind of internet mobbing?

[tbonesteak]

Originally Posted by V25V

So true, and we all know they will roll away.

Friend got model 3, I had a good at the ipad in the center. Looks absolutely awful. And those door handles? LMAO.

Hard pass, the ones shipping now are roughly $50-$60k and some in the $70's.

Think I'd take a lower priced 3 Series and pocket the difference, or if I wanted to spend it all, happily a 5 Series.