Took macro shots of my brand new 5164a. Very disappointed

[IBDOC]

Originally Posted by BNABOD

What a load of horse manure ....excusing this just because it is an ‘entry level PP’ . Grand Seiko anyone

I’m not excusing anything, I’m just stating facts. Has PP ever been best at finishing? No. Was PP better at finishing in the ”good old days”? No. Is it a jerk move to charge $$$$ for this level of finishing? Probably. Are people who pay 2-3x msrp for this stuff dumb? I’ll leave that one to each to decide.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by yellowfinger

So I should expect Grand Seiko a watch which is 83% cheaper to have better finishing?

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In this case, yes

I wonder what your AD would say if you showed them the pictures? Just a thought.

[BNABOD]

Originally Posted by IBDOC

I’m not excusing anything, I’m just stating facts. Has PP ever been best at finishing? No. Was PP better at finishing in the ”good old days”? No. Is it a jerk move to charge $$$$ for this level of finishing? Probably. Are people who pay 2-3x msrp for this stuff dumb? I’ll leave that one to each to decide.

Makes more sense now ....I am no PP expert but all I ever hear about PP is the level of finishing the beautiful this and that ...then macro shots comes and whoa crap shoot . Ultimately yes vote w your wallet , personally I don’t like the watch that was pictured and no one walks around w a loupe but it would bug me to see the price vs finish ...

[IBDOC]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I wonder what your AD would say if you showed them the pictures? Just a thought.

Gut feeling says they’ll smile, be apologetic, appease him with some PP-branded trinket and then put his name on the Troublemaker list.

[scurfa]

That is a surprise, I studied my 5196 before purchase and I would consider that to be the entry level model and that one is perfect.


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[enjoythemusic]

Please post lume pics, sounds like it might be a 'defective' timepiece.

[cbalster]

imagine you are a watchmaker at the factory. you know that the watch is going to be sold no matter what. in fact, it's already sold out for the discernible future and it will be sold sight unseen perhaps many times over. you know that his watch will be worth more the second it is sold. how would you expect things to play out?

i also smile to myself thinking about a patron coming to the AD to collect his aquanaut with loupe in hand. the champagne has been chilled, and the patron examines the watch and says, "no thanks, the finishing is off, please call me when a better example arrives." HAHA. good luck with receiving that call.

[Russell996]

Just to state the obvious, the OP's photos are up to 20x size and even Lange will struggle at this enlargement to look perfect - indeed there is a thread on another forum pointing out the poor finish of the back of a Lange hand being reflected in the polished moonphase display.

[Tay821]

Originally Posted by Russell996

I have a Nikon with a macro and ring flash and also iPhone with LoupeSystem mounted.
These were done with Nikon and Macro.

Thanks! Looks like these systems are pretty pricey. Are they worth it or is there another Loupe for iphone out there that you or others might recommend.

[RoscoPico]

definitely worth considering but also keeping in perspective.
if op's shots are 20x mag, then we'd have to compare other brands with similar macro shots

an entry level patek could be 20k, but that is still 20k no matter how you look at it.
will patek hold value, appreciate, etc etc ?
sure, but not if it becomes known for poor finishing.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Tay821

Thanks! Looks like these systems are pretty pricey. Are they worth it or is there another Loupe for iphone out there that you or others might recommend.

I think the LoupeSystem is pretty unique, I use it for photos mounted on the iPhone and also for simply looking through and staring in disbelief at the movements and dials!
I don't use a tripod with my LoupeSystem (which would help), but even handheld it does a great job.

https://youtu.be/dRvyap8Mnr4

[yellowfinger]

I will ring my AD tomorrow and see what their response it.

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[Patton250]

OP those are really great pictures. (Quality of the pictures I mean) Do you mind me asking what camera and lens you used?

[rayshipley]

Very bad and appropriate to be disappointed.

[Tay821]

Originally Posted by Russell996

I think the LoupeSystem is pretty unique, I use it for photos mounted on the iPhone and also for simply looking through and staring in disbelief at the movements and dials!
I don't use a tripod with my LoupeSystem (which would help), but even handheld it does a great job.

https://youtu.be/dRvyap8Mnr4

Thank you for the insight. Would like to get something

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Just to state the obvious, the OP's photos are up to 20x size and even Lange will struggle at this enlargement to look perfect - indeed there is a thread on another forum pointing out the poor finish of the back of a Lange hand being reflected in the polished moonphase display.

I meant to add earlier that I believe watchmakers loupes range from x4 to x10 magnification (my loupe system is x6), so at x20 in the OP's post I believe we are at twice magnification of the best Loupes.

[ct.matt]

I emailed Patek about it, very disappointing. Why is it that Grand Seikos are immaculate under a microscope but we can't get the same level of attention to detail from our favorite genevese brands. Do they really have to squeeze out more margin per unit at the individual parts level? If they source the hands from a supplier, how much more could a little bit of extra paint and QC cost extra. When you're already charging $35k for the watch you'd think that's enough spread where they can deliver superior quality and service.

[IBDOC]

Originally Posted by ct.matt

I emailed Patek about it, very disappointing. Why is it that Grand Seikos are immaculate under a microscope but we can't get the same level of attention to detail from our favorite genevese brands. Do they really have to squeeze out more margin per unit at the individual parts level? If they source the hands from a supplier, how much more could a little bit of extra paint and QC cost extra. When you're already charging $35k for the watch you'd think that's enough spread where they can deliver superior quality and service.

Average income in Switzerland is like $7000/month. I’m not at all surprised that Seiko can squeeze more quality out of a lower cost base.

[SL BRABUS]

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...6#post10694016

I mention on the other thread last week..^^^.. Post 49....^^^

Recap on last week what I mention by reading my bottom post......

Originally Posted by SL BRABUS

Not sure if you guys know this.....

Rolex & Patek outsourcing their hands.... Especially hands that need to be painted.....

No matter what, Low end or High end models of Rolex and Patek..... If it have painted hand it will have imperfect more or less on your Rolex or Patek.... Especially unfinished underside painting...

See sample pictures...

Picture 1:Rolex Yacht Master baby blue....

Picture 2: Rolex Yacht Master baby blue....Notice on the seconds hand their a water mark of the outsource manufacturing company.....

Picture 3 and 4 Rolex Explorer II hands....

Picture 5 Rolex BLOR hands Meteorite Dial....

Picture 6 and 7 Patek 5167A white seconds hand....

Picture 8 and 9 Patek 5167R white seconds hand....

Picture 10 Patek 5968A orange seconds hand .....

Picture 11 Patek 5960A red seconds hand ....

[enjoythemusic]

Would love to see some macros of F.P. Journe on this thread.

[shaunylw]

Originally Posted by SL BRABUS

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...6#post10694016



I mention on the other thread last week..^^^.. Post 49....^^^



Recap on last week what I mention by reading my bottom post......

This dial picture is horrendous. That’s really not zoomed in much. Maybe 4x? Horrendous and embarrassing for Patek. Low end, sport watch, whatever they call it, it’s bad.


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[SL BRABUS]

Originally Posted by yellowfinger

Also for lume, i have two different shades of brightness for the numbers. No. 5 1 8 2 was much brighter than the rest

As for the lume that would bother me.....^^^..... No excuses....^^^.....

The problem with all the 5164 & recently 5167, Patek Philippe used the new lume called C1....

My 5167 lume used C3....

Here some of the pictures.....





Out in the bright sunlight.....^^^....



Outdoor in the shade......^^^......



Indoor normal light environment...^^^...



85% in the dark environment.......^^^....

[jamerson80]

Originally Posted by shaunylw

This dial picture is horrendous. That’s really not zoomed in much. Maybe 4x? Horrendous and embarrassing for Patek. Low end, sport watch, whatever they call it, it’s bad.


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That is my Aquanaut I posted on that thread, and it is not the 5167, but the 5168G. I wouldn't put too much stock in my dial details on that picture as there's a ton of lint and such on my crystal, my specific point with that picture was to address people claiming the "0"s and "1"s were not the same size. It was to address the power/ill effects of having the wrong viewing angles.

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[ragsk]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

With PP stamped on the dial you’re not, at this basic level of Patek, paying for finishing.
I bet the Grand Seiko probably has more than 83% absolute deprecation than your Patek too.

Not intending to inflame the OP, but I sincerely believe you’re expecting too much. This isn’t a 5370.
And other posters are quite right, Lange do it better at this level.

Could not disagree more with this post. PP need to do better than this.

[Nav01L]

Well OP, if you want to use a loupe at that price level, get a Lange or a Vacheron, your Aquanaut is for people across the room to say „look he‘s got an Aquanaut“, and those folks won’t see whether it’s even ticking.

[Bearxj86]

GS does not polish the underside of the hands. The dials/hands also have flaws...sometimes:

1) Snowflake - Start at 9:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y89rYmxeyDw

2) SBGE 201 start at 9:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnhmkkgeoYs&t=436s

[mongrelnomoad]

I’m sorry, but those who are in some way justifying this: what exactly are we paying for if this is acceptable at any level, but the name and the storied history?

I’d like to think that this is an oversight by QA, and not representative of an acceptable level of finishing for any PP.

[Calatrava r]

It is a little disappointing to be sure. The good news, I guess, is there are many brands out there with finishing to high micro standards which are very obtainable. Grand Seiko is just one of many.

[IBDOC]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

I’d like to think that this is an oversight by QA, and not representative of an acceptable level of finishing for any PP.

Forgetting to finish side surfaces on all three hands, which were almost certainly not manufactured simultaneously, is an oversight? I don’t think so. The lume debacle someone posted in the other lemon Aquanaut grief thread, sure. But this? Would be like getting caught shoplifting three different items at the same time and claiming oops didn’t mean to.

[alphadweller]

I'm not impressed. I would be disappointed too. Those hands look cheap and they shouldn't in a $50k watch. They look much better in an entry level Calatrava.