How to stop crooks? There must be something we can do.

[Goiguidoc]

Thanks to TRF, another high quality fake Rolex was removed this morning.

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=163532

However, the same problem persists and will never stop.

The same guy(s) keep on selling high quality fakes and my question is how can we stop them.

This is how they proceed:
1) They start with a rare (and thus expensive) vintage Rolex model (recently 5510, then milgauss and today daytona)
2) They assembly fake and original Rolex parts (usually the case is fake and the dial would be original). The result looks very real.
3) The Ebay seller (with only a few feedbacks of course) sells it with no reserve. Why would they sell such expensive and rare watches at no reserve???
4) They receive immediately buy-it-now offers from buyers who think it is the opportunity of their live.
5) Eventually, the fraud is reported to Ebay (thanks to TRF) and the item removed.
6) They take the best buy-it-know offer and finalize the transaction privately.

As this is not the first time, I have reported these guys to the local police.
The answer was each time: " it is buyer beware".
I have reported them to the internet police. No feedback.

What else can we do to stop these crooks?

The fake vintage daytona was removed this morning, but the Ebayer based in Japan who proposed a buy-it-know transaction is probably going to be screwed.

Thanks

[rolexertion]

The world has so many people on it that the environment, including the air, the water, the earth itself, is literally choking to death. Under that understanding, we have to ask ourselves, why do we need the liars, the cheats, the countefeiters, the thieves, the slimeballs? We simply can't afford the bads ones any more, if we ever could.

[Gundam]

Very difficult to put a stop to human dishonesty and greed.

It will come down to risk vs reward for the crooks. Perhaps fear of draconian punishment may be sufficient deterrent, eg capital punishment for scammers producing counterfeit goods.

[dligg72]

Start Chopping off hands like other countries do.

[Lgear080]

Vigilance and information. If trf becomes a resource for People
That are in the market for authentic rolex ( which it already is
By default )... Then all the better for owners and afficionados.

[rolexertion]

Originally Posted by dligg72

Start Chopping off hands like other countries do.

Unfortunately, the chopping off of hands doesn't necessarily take'em out of the gene pool.

[Gundam]

I suspect Rolex, and every other luxury watch brand, would say: Always buy new from an authorised dealer. Avoid unofficial agents and the secondary market.

If everyone did that the crooks would be out of business...

[Goiguidoc]

We cannot stop the proliferation of fakes and the quality of counterfeit items will only increase over time. At some point it won't be possible to differenciate an original from a fake. The only hope I have is to delay the process as much as possible.
Cheap fakes are easy to identify. In this case, we are dealing with experts selling high quality fakes. All these Ebay transations are related, because they follow exactly the same approach.

[jeremyam]

references. referrals.

[1675-David]

Originally Posted by rolexertion

Unfortunately, the chopping off of hands doesn't necessarily take'em out of the gene pool.

That's true but their watch will keep falling off...and that's got to to some sort of poetic justice.

[Hydrographer]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

That's true but their watch will keep falling off...and that's got to to some sort of poetic justice.

GENIUS!!

[Goiguidoc]

I will soon share with you more details. I just need to verify first the information before I release it.

[lrpepin]

some of the fakes look better than the real thing minus
the movement

[rolexertion]

Originally Posted by Goiguidoc

In this case, we are dealing with experts selling high quality fakes.

I REALLY wish people would stop using the term 'high quality' in connection with fakes. There is no such thing, never has been, never will be. The whole point behind fakes is an attempt to palm off a cheap, crappy piece of junk as a quality piece of merchandise.

[Rolex116520]

Originally Posted by rolexertion

I REALLY wish people would stop using the term 'high quality' in connection with fakes. There is no such thing, never has been, never will be. The whole point behind fakes is an attempt to palm off a cheap, crappy piece of junk as a quality piece of merchandise.

I understand what you are saying and I have to agree with it by principle . But , I also understand what the OP is getting at .
There is the common mass produced Rolex submariner you can order on many websites . These , most of us can spot from a mile away . However there is the specialists counterfeiters are coming out with much more elaborated , detailed and hence much more difficult to tell the difference of the real thing . They will just make a couple of each desirable models and release them one by one , not to raise too much suspicion .

A bit chicken or egg thing .. internet gives us more tools to verify the authenticity of let's say a vintage Rolex . At the same time the counterfeiters can benefit from that availability of info too.
I'm convinced that many handcrafted assemblies by expert watchmakers with a mix and match of authentic and copied parts found their way into respectable sellers circuits . They will now most likely be part of someones precious and most priced collection items .

His happens with paintings and why not with vintage Rolex sport watches that can fetch 100K and more .

[Goiguidoc]

Thank you for this precision!
This is exacetly what I mean by "high quality", as opposed to the cheap $50 fakes.

[jamesbondOO7]

Originally Posted by rolexertion

The world has so many people on it that the environment, including the air, the water, the earth itself, is literally choking to death. Under that understanding, we have to ask ourselves, why do we need the liars, the cheats, the countefeiters, the thieves, the slimeballs? We simply can't afford the bads ones any more, if we ever could.

[conrail]

Originally Posted by Goiguidoc

I have reported them to the internet police. No feedback.

What are the "internet police?" I don't think I much like the sounds of that.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Goiguidoc

I will soon share with you more details. I just need to verify first the information before I release it.

We are waiting.

[Dr.Brian]

Originally Posted by conrail

What are the "internet police?" I don't think I much like the sounds of that.

A "security" car pulled me over one evening when I was on a public street in the LA area once. (stone sober and obeying traffic rules). When I saw his uniform and "badge" I rolled up the window, started the car, and drove off. He tried to open the door and yelled into the partially open sunroof that I was under arrest and he was calling the police. I waved goodbye with one finger and noted that I already did, gesturing to my girlfriend who was on my cell with 911 reporting a nut impersonating a police officer. He didn't follow, and we went out to dinner in a different part of town.
I still have no idea what that was about. I was on a very public street, not in some private development.
I think he was a member of the Internet Police.

[Goiguidoc]

The "internet police" was recommended to me buy Ebay's legal department. The link is www.IC3.gov . According to Ebay's lawyers, this website works directly with the FBI and international authorities for internet crimes.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Goiguidoc

Thanks to TRF, another high quality fake Rolex was removed this morning.

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=163532

However, the same problem persists and will never stop.

The same guy(s) keep on selling high quality fakes and my question is how can we stop them.

This is how they proceed:
1) They start with a rare (and thus expensive) vintage Rolex model (recently 5510, then milgauss and today daytona)
2) They assembly fake and original Rolex parts (usually the case is fake and the dial would be original). The result looks very real.
3) The Ebay seller (with only a few feedbacks of course) sells it with no reserve. Why would they sell such expensive and rare watches at no reserve???
4) They receive immediately buy-it-now offers from buyers who think it is the opportunity of their live.
5) Eventually, the fraud is reported to Ebay (thanks to TRF) and the item removed.
6) They take the best buy-it-know offer and finalize the transaction privately.

As this is not the first time, I have reported these guys to the local police.
The answer was each time: " it is buyer beware".
I have reported them to the internet police. No feedback.

What else can we do to stop these crooks?

The fake vintage daytona was removed this morning, but the Ebayer based in Japan who proposed a buy-it-know transaction is probably going to be screwed.

Thanks

Good question. We can't all be our brother's keeper all the time. Sometime, somewhere, hopefully a little common sense will fall into play and protect some of these guys. But, when I see it happen time and time again, it makes me wonder. The internet has created the perfect storm for "bargain hunters." Not all victims being taken advantage of are bargain hunters, but a great majority are that type. I see post after post on TRF and other forums asking, "when can I get the best price or best buy on a Rolex, a box, a bracelet, an accessory, a repair etc etc. You get what you pay for - most of the time.

[Goiguidoc]

This is very true.
I'm just trying my best to delay the proliferation (thanks to Ebay and other internet sites) of "high end" fakes. Maybe I'm just like Don Quichotte...

[Rolex116520]

Originally Posted by springer

You get what you pay for - most of the time.

That is so very true . Especially on sites like Ebay . Maybe up till 10 years ago you could find the odd original vintage item and the person selling it had no real idea what it was worth . There were little real connoisseurs buying on Ebay at that time and you could be lucky and find yourself a real bargain.
These are long gone days in my opinion . If what looks nice does not fetch the right price you can bet that there is something wrong with it somewhere .
I no longer buy anything on Ebay , unless I know that I can pick it up in person before paying for it .

[Netcruizer99]

Originally Posted by springer

You get what you pay for - most of the time.

For me, that's the worst part about buying a Rolex from a non-AD. If I pick up a "Rolex" for $50 from a makeshift roadside market in the Bahamas, I know what I'm getting. Its another to spend $9000 only to find out a few days later that its a fake.

Of course the best defense is a good offense - which is to buy only from reputable dealers either here on TRF or an AD.

netcruizer99

[Hankotex]

Know your watches or know your dealer...or both.