Question about Tudors

[lightingball2]

Does anyone know if Tudor shares anything with Rolex at all? Or is it just that Rolex owns them and they are completely different. Like for example, are the cases made from Rolex cases? I know they have a completely different movement and bracelet. Just was wondering if they share anything at all or if they are completely separate.......

Just wondering why they don’t retain their value as well. They seem like a great piece for the money.

I have to say, I love my black bay. But been debating about selling it since it doesn’t get much wrist time.


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[padi56]

The Tudor line go back to the 1920s then mainly sold in Canada and Europe, Rolex or Tudor watches were not sold then in the USA,it was very much later the the Rolex brand arrived for sale in the USA.Hans Wilsdorf from the RWC first opened Tudor watch to world wide production in 1946. And one of the main reasons why he chose the brand name Tudor, was that he wanted to pay tribute to the Tudor history period of old England.

The Tudor line prior to around 1990 was all Rolex except for movement,Tudor watches are made by Rolex. The major difference between a Tudor and a Rolex is that Rolex contracted the manufacturing of the movement out to a 3rd party manufacturer (ETA in 95% of them) but now some modern day Tudors do have a in-house made movement. Much like Rolex did with there chrongraphs before 2000 they used ETA Valjoux and Zenith movements. The ETA ebauche movements were made to Rolex's specifications and signed Tudor. This movement was then sent to Rolex where it was assembled into a watch with all Rolex remaining parts (Rolex case, bezel, strap or bracelet,dial, crystal and crown, seals, etc.). These parts are the same parts used in the Rolex line of watches up till around 1990. The Tudor movements are high grade 17, 21, 25, or 26 jewel Automatic or Manual chronometer grade movements which when correctly cleaned, timed, and oiled, will keep time almost as well as any normal Rolex.

The case screw backs were engraved original oyster case by Rolex,on all the oyster models.In the gold or TT models Tudor uses genuine solid gold Rolex bezels and crown caps, but their bracelets are normally only gold filled,to reduce the cost while Rolex uses solid gold in their bracelets.The French Navy (among others) opted for the Tudor Submariner,instead of the Rolex Sub,the French Navy demanded rigorous testing and tested several brands These watches were tested to carefully calibrated abusive tests in an attempt to destroy them to see how much abuse it could take before losing accuracy or malfunctioning .After testing they choose the Tudor and the only thing the French navy didn't order was the Oyster bracelet.They chose a nylon strap because it would be much more easy to change,and easily replaced if broken.And today the only step down in quality with Tudor watches in general is the price.The the main difference between a Rolex Sub and say a Tudor Sub is they used a top range Chronometer grade ETA a first class all in-house built movement but not Rolex made,and in watches like the Tudor Prince they used a light Oyster bracelet, on Subs they used the heavy Oyster bracelet.Now today the Tudor line has quite a long high heritage with Hans Wilsdorf the founder of Rolex.

In today's market quite a few vintage Tudor watches command higher prices than there Rolex brothers same could be said for Rolex, many of the most collectible Rolex dont have a Rolex made movement but ones from ETA Valjoux and Zenith .The Tudor line are still made in the same now highly automated factory as Rolex.While now would agree the Aeronaut,Hydronaut range are not quite as good as the Oyster cased ones but its still very very close.Tudor are still a very important part of the Rolex history and are great watches in there own right.Today's modern Tudor have gone there own way now developed their own style and own in-house movements still owned by Rolex but now more individual and IMHO doing there own thing with many new models and not so stuck in the mud so much as Rolex.

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by padi56

The Tudor line go back to the 1920s then mainly sold in Canada and Europe, Rolex or Tudor watches were not sold then in the USA,it was very much later the the Rolex brand arrived for sale in the USA.Hans Wilsdorf from the RWC first opened Tudor watch to world wide production in 1946. And one of the main reasons why he chose the brand name Tudor, was that he wanted to pay tribute to the Tudor history period of old England.

The Tudor line prior to around 1990 was all Rolex except for movement,Tudor watches are made by Rolex. The major difference between a Tudor and a Rolex is that Rolex contracted the manufacturing of the movement out to a 3rd party manufacturer (ETA in 95% of them) but now some modern day Tudors do have a in-house made movement. Much like Rolex did with there chrongraphs before 2000 they used ETA Valjoux and Zenith movements. The ETA ebauche movements were made to Rolex's specifications and signed Tudor. This movement was then sent to Rolex where it was assembled into a watch with all Rolex remaining parts (Rolex case, bezel, strap or bracelet,dial, crystal and crown, seals, etc.). These parts are the same parts used in the Rolex line of watches up till around 1990. The Tudor movements are high grade 17, 21, 25, or 26 jewel Automatic or Manual chronometer grade movements which when correctly cleaned, timed, and oiled, will keep time almost as well as any normal Rolex.

The case screw backs were engraved original oyster case by Rolex,on all the oyster models.In the gold or TT models Tudor uses genuine solid gold Rolex bezels and crown caps, but their bracelets are normally only gold filled,to reduce the cost while Rolex uses solid gold in their bracelets.The French Navy (among others) opted for the Tudor Submariner,instead of the Rolex Sub,the French Navy demanded rigorous testing and tested several brands These watches were tested to carefully calibrated abusive tests in an attempt to destroy them to see how much abuse it could take before losing accuracy or malfunctioning .After testing they choose the Tudor and the only thing the French navy didn't order was the Oyster bracelet.They chose a nylon strap because it would be much more easy to change,and easily replaced if broken.And today the only step down in quality with Tudor watches in general is the price.The the main difference between a Rolex Sub and say a Tudor Sub is they used a top range Chronometer grade ETA a first class all in-house built movement but not Rolex made,and in watches like the Tudor Prince they used a light Oyster bracelet, on Subs they used the heavy Oyster bracelet.Now today the Tudor line has quite a long high heritage with Hans Wilsdorf the founder of Rolex.

In today's market quite a few vintage Tudor watches command higher prices than there Rolex brothers same could be said for Rolex, many of the most collectible Rolex dont have a Rolex made movement but ones from ETA Valjoux and Zenith .The Tudor line are still made in the same now highly automated factory as Rolex.While now would agree the Aeronaut,Hydronaut range are not quite as good as the Oyster cased ones but its still very very close.Tudor are still a very important part of the Rolex history and are great watches in there own right.Today's modern Tudor have gone there own way now developed their own style and own in-house movements still owned by Rolex but now more individual and IMHO doing there own thing with many new models and not so stuck in the mud so much as Rolex.

Yep, and, even in the '90s, many of the Tudor parts were very much still Rolex, although they moved to branding them Tudor on the casebacks, clasps and crowns. That's all a bit murky.

[Ballzzz]

Originally Posted by padi56

The Tudor line go back to the 1920s then mainly sold in Canada and Europe, Rolex or Tudor watches were not sold then in the USA,it was very much later the the Rolex brand arrived for sale in the USA.Hans Wilsdorf from the RWC first opened Tudor watch to world wide production in 1946. And one of the main reasons why he chose the brand name Tudor, was that he wanted to pay tribute to the Tudor history period of old England.

The Tudor line prior to around 1990 was all Rolex except for movement,Tudor watches are made by Rolex. The major difference between a Tudor and a Rolex is that Rolex contracted the manufacturing of the movement out to a 3rd party manufacturer (ETA in 95% of them) but now some modern day Tudors do have a in-house made movement. Much like Rolex did with there chrongraphs before 2000 they used ETA Valjoux and Zenith movements. The ETA ebauche movements were made to Rolex's specifications and signed Tudor. This movement was then sent to Rolex where it was assembled into a watch with all Rolex remaining parts (Rolex case, bezel, strap or bracelet,dial, crystal and crown, seals, etc.). These parts are the same parts used in the Rolex line of watches up till around 1990. The Tudor movements are high grade 17, 21, 25, or 26 jewel Automatic or Manual chronometer grade movements which when correctly cleaned, timed, and oiled, will keep time almost as well as any normal Rolex.

The case screw backs were engraved original oyster case by Rolex,on all the oyster models.In the gold or TT models Tudor uses genuine solid gold Rolex bezels and crown caps, but their bracelets are normally only gold filled,to reduce the cost while Rolex uses solid gold in their bracelets.The French Navy (among others) opted for the Tudor Submariner,instead of the Rolex Sub,the French Navy demanded rigorous testing and tested several brands These watches were tested to carefully calibrated abusive tests in an attempt to destroy them to see how much abuse it could take before losing accuracy or malfunctioning .After testing they choose the Tudor and the only thing the French navy didn't order was the Oyster bracelet.They chose a nylon strap because it would be much more easy to change,and easily replaced if broken.And today the only step down in quality with Tudor watches in general is the price.The the main difference between a Rolex Sub and say a Tudor Sub is they used a top range Chronometer grade ETA a first class all in-house built movement but not Rolex made,and in watches like the Tudor Prince they used a light Oyster bracelet, on Subs they used the heavy Oyster bracelet.Now today the Tudor line has quite a long high heritage with Hans Wilsdorf the founder of Rolex.

In today's market quite a few vintage Tudor watches command higher prices than there Rolex brothers same could be said for Rolex, many of the most collectible Rolex dont have a Rolex made movement but ones from ETA Valjoux and Zenith .The Tudor line are still made in the same now highly automated factory as Rolex.While now would agree the Aeronaut,Hydronaut range are not quite as good as the Oyster cased ones but its still very very close.Tudor are still a very important part of the Rolex history and are great watches in there own right.Today's modern Tudor have gone there own way now developed their own style and own in-house movements still owned by Rolex but now more individual and IMHO doing there own thing with many new models and not so stuck in the mud so much as Rolex.

Thanks for the lesson. So for example my ETA BBN has its own case individual to Tudor. No modern Tudor/Rolex share parts? They currently are built in the same factories but no shared parts? How much outsourcing does Tudor do, now with there in house movements? I know that's a big deal for Rolex is there fully integrated line.

[douglasf13]

I can’t say for sure, but I’m not under the impression that Tudor outsources anything, outside of ETA movements. Either way, it doesn’t really matter. Rolex didn’t make vertical integration a priority until the ‘90s, and they didn’t buy their movement maker until 2004.

[J!m]

Great write-up Peter.

I would not qualify the statement regarding accuracy. Well-adjusted Eta's are just as accurate as their Rolex counterparts. There is economy of scale with Eta, but a chronometer is a chronometer. New out of the box, mid 70's? I'd bet the Rolex had an edge in most cases. But today, with freshly serviced and regulated movements, you'd be hard pressed to tell them apart.

Further to this point, Tudor had quick-set date long before Rolex did. I believe they also had hacking movements before Rolex did. They had the high beat (28,800) before Rolex did.

Regarding holding value, around the turn of the century Tudor subs were trading at a much lower price point than Rolex subs. Roughly 20 years later and that has switched, with some Tudors offered higher than Rolex. Will they sell? I don't know but I guess they wouldn't be in that asking range unless something was selling up there...

So, I'd say if you held onto your rose dial (Eta movement) Modern Tudors, in 20 years you should be over your initial investment (including cost of living adjustment) in my opinion. So the Black Bay (rose dial) and black 2-line dial Pelagos will be sought after and pristine ones/full sets will command a premium just as vintage Tudor and Rolex do now.

This is important if you're one of these new "watch investors"...

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by J!m

Great write-up Peter.

I would not qualify the statement regarding accuracy. Well-adjusted Eta's are just as accurate as their Rolex counterparts. There is economy of scale with Eta, but a chronometer is a chronometer. New out of the box, mid 70's? I'd bet the Rolex had an edge in most cases. But today, with freshly serviced and regulated movements, you'd be hard pressed to tell them apart.

Further to this point, Tudor had quick-set date long before Rolex did. I believe they also had hacking movements before Rolex did. They had the high beat (28,800) before Rolex did.

Regarding holding value, around the turn of the century Tudor subs were trading at a much lower price point than Rolex subs. Roughly 20 years later and that has switched, with some Tudors offered higher than Rolex. Will they sell? I don't know but I guess they wouldn't be in that asking range unless something was selling up there...

So, I'd say if you held onto your rose dial (Eta movement) Modern Tudors, in 20 years you should be over your initial investment (including cost of living adjustment) in my opinion. So the Black Bay (rose dial) and black 2-line dial Pelagos will be sought after and pristine ones/full sets will command a premium just as vintage Tudor and Rolex do now.

This is important if you're one of these new "watch investors"...

Tudor uses top, rather than chronometer graded ETAs, but the only differences are that the Chronometers are tested (top uses same parts.). For those interested, Rolex takes the ETA top movement and changes the balance cock, swaps Incabloc to KIF, and adds a Triovis regulator, so they’re quite modified (I believe there are some material changes, too.) Mine happens to be more accurate than any of my 3135 watches (after regulation,) but that’s down to luck.

[SoCal_Batman]

Love the write up on the history and heritage of Tudor, thanks for sharing! I'm a huge fan of my Black Bay with the in-house movement, keeps exceptional time !!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by SoCal_Batman

Love the write up on the history and heritage of Tudor, thanks for sharing! I'm a huge fan of my Black Bay with the in-house movement, keeps exceptional time !!

Have to agree but sadly many today just wear the Rolex brand name, and have no idea about the herodige of Tudor brand by Rolex.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by J!m

...Further to this point, Tudor had quick-set date long before Rolex did. I believe they also had hacking movements before Rolex did. They had the high beat (28,800) before Rolex ...

As did Seiko, on all three points.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

As did Seiko, on all three points.

As we all know Adam well some have more sense than others, once you got your Rolex blinkered glasses on, Rolex invented everything in this watch world today.

[cdbeaver66]

Some great information here

[rudestew]

Im sure iv read that Tudor and Breitling share the new movements ?

[jaySL350]

Many thanks Peter
Great information,,
Thanks for sharing,,,,,

[ink3027]

Great information, thanks all.

This might be a dumb question, but I couldn't find it in the thread. Are Tudor watches still currently manufactured in the same facility as Rolex watches? I know that was the case in the past, but I can't find a definitive answer about today.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by rudestew

Im sure iv read that Tudor and Breitling share the new movements ?

Only in the chronograph range.

[1William]

Very informative thread. I have found the value of the Tudors to be very good when trading or selling. The key to all the watch sales and trading is what you acquired the watch for. If you pay msrp then you have an issue if you go to sell or trade the watch before price increases can move a new one up. Keep your Tudor and enjoy it.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by SoCal_Batman

Love the write up on the history and heritage of Tudor, thanks for sharing! I'm a huge fan of my Black Bay with the in-house movement, keeps exceptional time !!

Agreed, thanks Peter

Originally Posted by padi56

Have to agree but sadly many today just wear the Rolex brand name, and have no idea about the herodige of Tudor brand by Rolex.

Sad but true, just another thing to own for many people

[Nevets750]

Thanks for the great write-up. I read a lot of reviews about the Black Bay before buying mine (BB Dark), but definitely didn't know all the great history behind it. This info make me value mine even more! It keeps perfect time and is a piece that I can't ever see myself selling. Maybe a Rolex in the future, but for now my Tudor Black Bay fits my needs perfectly!

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[fskywalker]

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[JR_NoDate]

Great info here. Thanks all.

My 114300 and Prince Date with Explorer-style dial (74000N) get equal wrist time, and give me equal enjoyment.

The 74000 is the Explorer 1 Date with jubilee that Rolex never made. It's from 1998, Asian market only. Case, crown, bracelet all signed Tudor, and all identical to Rolex equivalents.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by JR_NoDate

Great info here. Thanks all.

My 114300 and Prince Date with Explorer-style dial (74000N) get equal wrist time, and give me equal enjoyment.

The 74000 is the Explorer 1 Date with jubilee that Rolex never made. It's from 1998, Asian market only. Case, crown, bracelet all signed Tudor, and all identical to Rolex equivalents.

Just like the 76200 is the stainless steel Day-Date that Rolex never made (apart from the infamous half dozen). Tudor still makes and markets the 76xxx and 74xxx Prince line in Hong Kong today. It's the only way to still buy a brand new Rolex Oyster case with lug holes.

[douglasf13]

I thought I’d share this nice Tudor anecdote from user Le Chiffre from another forum:

“Here's mine [Prince Date], bought it in 1997. Tudor is quite obscure in Brazil, while Rolex is extremely popular.
This watch came directly from Switzerland to me. Due to very low sales, Rolex never kept a Tudor inventory in Brazil, but accepted special orders through its best dealers. Nowadays, Tudor is not sold here.
I was 21 years old and the AD manager seemed quite puzzled about my choice. He congratulated me as a "young connoisseur". Same astonishment happened at Rolex headquarters, when I came to register the watch.
Their senior technician, a nice Spanish gentleman in his seventies, was very curious (and impressed) about such a young fellow owning a Tudor Prince Oysterdate.
He explained to me that those ETA movements are "unique" and "tailor made under the strict Rolex standards". For example, some brass parts are replaced by steel ones. And the movements are not received in "fully finished" form, because Rolex adds "specific" in-house parts and performs the same quality and endurance tests of their own movements.
He also said that the arrangement with ETA was strategic for Rolex, as their full production scale was oriented for chronometer movements, apart a marginal output of manual movements for the Cellini line. And this orientation was strenghtened after the dismissal of the Oysterquartz movement. "Rolex buys the bulk from ETA and makes all the necessary changes to bring the movement up to our specific standards", as he proudly stated to me.”