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Old 12 January 2019, 07:09 AM   #121
synequano
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Another thing to note regarding pam serial number....they often make a small variation using the same reference number,that's why sometimes we add the year letter or the "special characteristics" after the model number,almost like Rolex owners discussing flat 4 or drilled case or T<25 dial etc...

These are the common ones that I can think of:

26,28,29 A/B - refer to original version of these references,some have small differences in comparison to the "retro" version

Plain bezel 24/25 - refer to early 24/25 without extra markers between lume pip and 15 pip on the bezel (and usually with tritium dial)

Painted 111/112/176/177 - refer to early models (E-G/H year) with painted dial and highly decorated graffiti movement

183G - refers to first year 183 with "black seal" written on the bottom part instead of top part of the dial

233 dot - already explained by Travelller

292J - refer to first year 292 with "pig" submarine printed on lower part of the dial

317K - refers to first year 317 with black movements instead of smoky sapphire display back

372 plexi - refers to 372 N-O-P with plexiglas crystal instead of sapphire

510/560/562/564 sandwich - refer to early iterations of the models with sandwich dial instead of painted dial on current models

I might've missed some but these are the ones that I often heard

Okay,enough of me thread-jacking,back to more discussions about 233....
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Old 12 January 2019, 09:05 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synequano View Post
Another thing to note regarding pam serial number....they often make a small variation using the same reference number,that's why sometimes we add the year letter or the "special characteristics" after the model number,almost like Rolex owners discussing flat 4 or drilled case or T<25 dial etc...

These are the common ones that I can think of:

26,28,29 A/B - refer to original version of these references,some have small differences in comparison to the "retro" version

Plain bezel 24/25 - refer to early 24/25 without extra markers between lume pip and 15 pip on the bezel (and usually with tritium dial)

Painted 111/112/176/177 - refer to early models (E-G/H year) with painted dial and highly decorated graffiti movement

183G - refers to first year 183 with "black seal" written on the bottom part instead of top part of the dial

233 dot - already explained by Travelller

292J - refer to first year 292 with "pig" submarine printed on lower part of the dial

317K - refers to first year 317 with black movements instead of smoky sapphire display back

372 plexi - refers to 372 N-O-P with plexiglas crystal instead of sapphire

510/560/562/564 sandwich - refer to early iterations of the models with sandwich dial instead of painted dial on current models

I might've missed some but these are the ones that I often heard

Okay,enough of me thread-jacking,back to more discussions about 233....
Thank you so much Synequano. You and Traveller are making my learning curve easier. There is so much to assimilate, all those references to discover, and the calibers to compare. It's a lot of work, but it's fascinating. By the way, your 368 is amazing. That picture you took of it really does it justice.
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Old 12 January 2019, 01:07 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelller View Post
...
Domed crystals can be found on these 1950-cased PAMs:
​127 203 217 267 ​233 289 368 ​ 270 335 ...
If I'm not mistaken, there are a few newer blued-dial beauties with domed crystals, like the 670 (Equation of Time - "372" case?), 690 & 932 ("1940" cases)
Quote:
Originally Posted by synequano View Post
...I think most of the monopulsantes also have domed crystal...275,311,317 and 579...I might miss the precious metal version...I think 277 and the green dial 73x....and of course the unicorn 290 (blue dial version of 233,only 1 made)

Some radiomir 1940 like 514 and 736 also have domed crystal...
I forgot the Monopulsantes, chronographs, as well as the Tourbillons and a few others...
​Monoplusante: 275 311 317 579
Chronog. 212 213 253 286 319 332
Tourbillons: 276 306 396 528

I don't consider models like the 514 to have "that" dome that we have on our 233 / 368... Yes, it's domed but not super-domed
Also not 100% sure about these -> 345 578 ... I think they are closer to the 514's type of crystal...

PAM 375 (composite) 617 & 629 (DLC) 662 & 663 (SS + faded dial) 736 & 737 (green dials) are few that were produced between the classic period and today's blue dialed beauties
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Old 12 January 2019, 09:54 PM   #124
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Guys.. slow down, you're drowning me .. I need to set up a data base asap.. should have started it earlier
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Old 12 January 2019, 10:12 PM   #125
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345 for sure missing out on that dome treatment



They fixed that on 579 (cheaper retail too) but I prefer the twin destro of 2011 as they're more classic,I don't like the patina lume and gold minute markers on 579
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Old 12 January 2019, 10:20 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Panerol Forte View Post
...I need to set up a data base...
Great idea!
I suggest the key attributes are:
case-type (1950 Luminor, / 1950 Luminor "cushion" - like the 372 / 1940 Radiomir) - I only list those that may have a "super-dome". You won't find a Radiomir with one, fro example, nor a Due.
case size (44 or 47mm)
case-material
movement (P.200x P300x) / principle complication (PR, Date, GMT, chronog. ...)
Year released / Production / LE / SE

If you don't have €100K you can ignore the Tourbillon, if you don't care for precious metals, you can write those off as well, etc.
Here's a "tool" you can use for your further research. If you select a movement, his "database" will list all PAMs using it. You can list the PAMs by product line (Luminor, Radiomir...). He's not 100% up to date, but it's a very good place to start

http://www.paneraisource.com/models/luminor1950.html
http://www.paneraisource.com/panerai_movements.shtml
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Old 14 January 2019, 08:49 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synequano View Post
345 for sure missing out on that dome treatment



They fixed that on 579 (cheaper retail too) but I prefer the twin destro of 2011 as they're more classic,I don't like the patina lume and gold minute markers on 579
Very nice watch, but too big for me.. I have 6.5/16.5 wrist, I can hardly go above 44mm. While googling PAM345, I came accross a picture of your 345 posted in 2016 on watchuseek forum, along a picture of your PAMs... that's an impressive collection you have there! I imagine it expanded since then, do you mind posting a picture of your current collection?
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Old 14 January 2019, 10:05 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelller View Post
Great idea!
I suggest the key attributes are:
case-type (1950 Luminor, / 1950 Luminor "cushion" - like the 372 / 1940 Radiomir) - I only list those that may have a "super-dome". You won't find a Radiomir with one, fro example, nor a Due.
case size (44 or 47mm)
case-material
movement (P.200x P300x) / principle complication (PR, Date, GMT, chronog. ...)
Year released / Production / LE / SE

If you don't have €100K you can ignore the Tourbillon, if you don't care for precious metals, you can write those off as well, etc.
Here's a "tool" you can use for your further research. If you select a movement, his "database" will list all PAMs using it. You can list the PAMs by product line (Luminor, Radiomir...). He's not 100% up to date, but it's a very good place to start

http://www.paneraisource.com/models/luminor1950.html
http://www.paneraisource.com/panerai_movements.shtml
Thank you for your suggestions, I will definitely take them into consideration Any suggestion for the tool to build such a database?
I just checked the links you gave me, the database is not complete, but still a good resource. There is also this one that is bigger with a better layout, but also missing some references.

https://watchbase.com/panerai

I will compare the two to see if they complement one another.

You mentioned the Tourbillon... luckily it's not my cup of tea. I am for useful complications, my favorite being the PC. My grail PAM would have a PC, GMT, EOT, and PR on the back. All this in a 1950 44mm case. Is it too much to ask?
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Old 14 January 2019, 12:36 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Panerol Forte View Post
...Any suggestion for the tool to build such a database?
No, sorry.

FWIW, my own "cheat-sheet" of all "super-dome" PAMs.
I believe it's most, if not all of them, but no guarantee (nor of the data - typos guaranteed)

PAM00127 - Luminor 1950 - SS - 47mm - black dial - "1950" - 3-6-9-12-subdial - 1950 units - E - OP XI (Unitas 6497-1)
PAM00203 - Luminor 1950 8 Days - SS - 47mm - brown dial - "8 giorni logo" - 3-6-9-12-subdial - 150 units - H - Angelus 240 SF
PAM00212 - Luminor 1950 Flyback SS - 44mm - black dial - subdial-6-subdial-12 - ? Units - H,I,J... - OP XIX (ETA 7750)
PAM00213 - Luminor 1950 Rattrapante SS - 44mm - black dial - subdial-6-subdial-12 - ? Units - H,I,J... - OP XVIII (ETA 7750)
PAM00217 - Luminor 1950 MM - SS - 47mm - Destro - black dial - "MM logo" 3-6-9-12-subdial - 1000 units - H - OP XI (Unitas 6497-1)
PAM00233 - Luminor 1950 8 Days GMT - SS - 44mm - black dial - date-6-subdial-12 - ? units - I,J,K - P.2002/1
PAM00253 - Luminor 1950 Flyback Regatta SS - 44mm - black dial - subdial-6-subdial-12 - 500 Units - I - OP XIX (ETA 7750)
PAM00267 - Luminor 1950 8 Days - SS - 47mm - black dial - "MM logo" - 3-6-9-12-subdial - 6!!! units - ? - Angelus 240 SF
PAM00276 - Luminor 1950 Tourbillon GMT - SS - 47mm - black dial - subdial-6-subdial-12 - 100 Units - J - P.2005
PAM00270 - Luminor 1950 10 Days GMT SS - 44mm - Automatic - black dial - date-6-subdial-12 - ? units - ? - P.2003
PAM00275 - Luminor 1950 Chrono Monopulsante 8 Days GMT SS - 44mm - black dial - subdial-6-subdial-12-PR - ? units - J - P.2004
PAM00286 - Luminor 1950 Regatta Rattrapante SS - 44mm - black dial - subdial-6-subdial-12 - 500 Units - J - OP XVIII (ETA 7750)
PAM00289 - Luminor 1950 8 Days GMT Pink Gold - 44mm - black dial - date-6-subdial-12 - ? units - ? - P.2002/1
PAM00306 - Luminor 1950 Tourbillon GMT Ti - 47mm - brown dial - subdial-6-subdial-12 - ? Units - K - P.2005
PAM00311 - Luminor 1950 Chrono Monopulsante 8 Days GMT Ti - 44mm - brown dial - subdial-6-subdial-12-PR - ? units - K - P.2004
PAM00317 - Luminor 1950 Chrono Monopulsante 8 Days GMT Ceramic - 44mm - black dial - subdial-6-subdial-12-PR - ? units - K - P.2004
PAM00319 - Luminor 1950 8 Days Rattrapante Pink gold - 44mm - brown dial - subdial-6-subdial-12-PR - 300 Units - L - P.2006/3
PAM00332 - Luminor 1950 Regatta Rattrapante SS PVD - 44mm - black dial - subdial-6-subdial-12 - 500 Units - L - OP XVIII (ETA 7750)
PAM00335 - Luminor 1950 10 Days GMT Ceramica - SS - 44mm - Automatic - GMT - black dial - date-6-subdial-12 - ? units - M - P.2003
PAM00368 - Luminor 1950 Destro 8 Days Titano - Ti - 47mm - brown dial - 3-6-9-12-subdial - 1000 units - N - P.2002/9
!!!Faux Patina introduced!!!
PAM00375 - Luminor 1950 3 Days Composite - 47mm - Brown dial - 3-6-9-12-subdial -2000 units - N - P.3000/1
PAM00396 - Luminor 1950 Tourbillon GMT Ceramica - 47mm - black dial - "Tourbillon" subdial-6-subdial-12 - ? Units - O - P.2005/B
PAM00528 - Luminor 1950 Tourbillon GMT Ceramica Lo Scienziato - 48mm - skeleton dial - - 3-6-9-12-subdial-subdial - ? units - P - P.2005/S
PAM00579 - Luminor 1950 Chrono Monopulsante Destro 8 Days GMT Ti - 47mm - brown dial - 3-6-9-12-subdial-subdial - 300 units - Q - P.2004/9
PAM00617 - Luminor 1950 3 Days Ti DLC - 47mm - Brown dial - "Logo" - 3-6-9-12-subdial - 300 units - R - P.3000/1
PAM00629 - Luminor 1950 3 Days Ti DLC California - 47mm - Brown dial - "California" - base - 300 units - R - P.3000
PAM00656 - Luminor 1950 Equation Of Time 8 Days Ti - 47mm - brown dial - 3-6-9-12-subdial-subdial-PR - ? units - S - P.2002/E
PAM00662 - Radiomir 1940 3 Days Egiziano Piccolo SS - 47mm - faded-brown dial - base - 1000 units - S - P.3000
PAM00663 - Luminor 1950 3 Days Brown SS - 47mm - faded-brown dial - base - 1000 units - S - P.3000
PAM00670 - Luminor 1950 Equation Of Time 8 Days Ti - 47mm - blue sunburst dial - 3-6-9-12-subdial-subdial-PR - ? units - S - P.2002/E
PAM00690 - Radiomir 1940 3 Days SS - 47mm - blue sunburst dial - 3-6-9-12-subdial - 500 units - S - P.3000/1
PAM00736 - Radiomir 1940 3 Days SS - 47mm - green dial - date-6-subdial-12 - ? units - T - P.3000 ​
PAM00737 - Luminor 1950 Chrono Monopulsante 8 Days GMT Ti - 44mm - green dial - subdial-6-subdial-12-PR - ? units - T - P.2004
PAM00932 - Radiomir 1940 3 Days SS - 47mm - "Med blue" dial - 3-6-9-12-subdial - 388 units - U - P.3000/1
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Old 14 January 2019, 06:55 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelller View Post
FWIW, my own "cheat-sheet" of all "super-dome" PAMs.
I believe it's most, if not all of them, but no guarantee (nor of the data - typos guaranteed)
Wow... Great! IWAL, it's worth a LOT! You're a life saver... Don't worry about the data and the typos, I'll double-check them and let you know if there is an error. I was contemplating the best way to dig the super-dome PAMs, and the only two ways I found were by watching videos and browsing through random pictures in hope to find profile shots or distorted reflection on the glass. HUGELY time consuming! I don't know how you compiled all those refs... time and experience I guess, but great work nevertheless Thank you so much for sharing
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Old 14 January 2019, 08:30 PM   #131
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Don't forget pam 290,blue dial 233...only one produced for Sotheby's HK

Regarding my collection,the latest pam I added is 368,after that I'm pretty much content with my collection...and seeing what they come up with in SIHH so far,I'm glad that I stick with older Panerais
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Old 14 January 2019, 09:08 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by synequano View Post
Don't forget pam 290,blue dial 233...only one produced for Sotheby's HK

Regarding my collection,the latest pam I added is 368,after that I'm pretty much content with my collection...and seeing what they come up with in SIHH so far,I'm glad that I stick with older Panerais

I have seen that one (not in the flesh, of course), it's a beauty.. regarding SIHH, both our sources were reliable.

Your's:
Marina militare submersible in carbotech,most likely in 47mm
New submersible with all SS bezel in yachtmaster styled markings and possibly sandwich dial

Mine:
New Bronzo will be announced, but that information was already in the air.
New Luminor Submersible 1950 Carbotech 42mm will be announced.

Still waiting for the Bronzo though
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Old 14 January 2019, 09:19 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Panerol Forte View Post
...I don't know how you compiled all those refs... time and experience I guess...
Correct - obviously you've never seen my review... Google "Officine Panerai 233"
I just updated my very old list with a few of the newer ones. TBH, I prefer white / green lume and since OP switched almost 100% to faux patina... I stopped following the "super-domes". I'm also VERY partial to "classic" 1950 cases and less interested in the 372-type 1950 case. I would however consider the Radiomir 1940 (similar to the 372-type) and if I come across a 587 (with "raised" plexi dome) I might add it to my collection

One important field missing from my cheat-sheet is the hands (stainless, gold, ...). I will eventually add that info too. Of course if you get involved in all the Radiomirs as well then you have to consider hand-type (pencil, ...) as another interesting factor...


Quote:
Originally Posted by synequano View Post
Don't forget pam 290,blue dial 233...only one produced for Sotheby's HK...

Regarding my collection,the latest pam I added is 368,after that I'm pretty much content with my collection...and seeing what they come up with in SIHH so far,I'm glad that I stick with older Panerais
290 - - I'll be honest; I've never heard of it before and I thought I knew most "older" PAMs... thanks
As for SIHH 2019 - the Ti Submersible with Carbothech bezel & glow-blue markers is NOT a good start imho...

EDIT: This one's pretty cool - like the raised markers - bet the lume can be seen across the room

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Old 14 January 2019, 09:47 PM   #134
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Made a mistake, will correct and repost

Last edited by Panerol Forte; 14 January 2019 at 09:50 PM.. Reason: wrong manipulation
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Old 14 January 2019, 10:20 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Travelller View Post
Correct - obviously you've never seen my review... Google "Officine Panerai 233"
I just updated my very old list with a few of the newer ones. TBH, I prefer white / green lume and since OP switched almost 100% to faux patina... I stopped following the "super-domes". I'm also VERY partial to "classic" 1950 cases and less interested in the 372-type 1950 case. I would however consider the Radiomir 1940 (similar to the 372-type) and if I come across a 587 (with "raised" plexi dome) I might add it to my collection

One important field missing from my cheat-sheet is the hands (stainless, gold, ...). I will eventually add that info too. Of course if you get involved in all the Radiomirs as well then you have to consider hand-type (pencil, ...) as another interesting factor...
I couldn't find the review, do you mind posting the link?

What is the difference between a "classic" 1950 case and a Luminor 1950 case?

I will at a later stage get involved with Radiomir... I got my hands full for the moment.

Re faux patina: Being new to Panerai world, the first time I walked into a Panerai boutique, I totally disliked the faux patina and was attracted to green white lumes as they are more conventional. After browsing through pictures and videos for days, the faux patina grew on me to the point that I now prefer it by far to green white. The reason for my sudden change of heart might be due to the fact that I don't have previous connection with any Panerai. Another thing I noticed with the faux patina, it is much easier to match straps then with other lume colors. I also noticed that hardcore Paneristi are not very enthusiastic about the faux patina... could it be because they got so much used to green white that it became hard for them to accept the change. Why don't you get a faux patina PAM, give it some wrist time and see if it groes on you... and if not, just resell it.
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Old 15 January 2019, 05:08 AM   #136
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I have 3 models with patina lume (339,372,441)

It gives the watch that touch of warmth but somehow the lume isn't as long lasting as the regular lume

Of the list compilled by travelller,one thing to notice is 375,it's supposed to come out in 2011 (hence the N series) but it actually came out somewhere sometimes in 2015/2016 due to some problem with production....
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Old 15 January 2019, 08:15 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by synequano View Post
I have 3 models with patina lume (339,372,441)

It gives the watch that touch of warmth but somehow the lume isn't as long lasting as the regular lume

Of the list compilled by travelller,one thing to notice is 375,it's supposed to come out in 2011 (hence the N series) but it actually came out somewhere sometimes in 2015/2016 due to some problem with production....
Interesting... so the series letter is related to the annoucement year and not the production year... at least based on the 375 example..

What do you think of 737 ?

Last edited by Panerol Forte; 15 January 2019 at 08:17 AM.. Reason: Typo
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Old 15 January 2019, 08:52 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by synequano View Post
Don't forget pam 290,blue dial 233...only one produced for Sotheby's HK

Regarding my collection,the latest pam I added is 368,after that I'm pretty much content with my collection...and seeing what they come up with in SIHH so far,I'm glad that I stick with older Panerais


Why did you mention the blue 233 Sotheby’s? I’ve been trying to forget that watch once I learn there was only one. That piece is awesome.
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Old 15 January 2019, 09:56 AM   #139
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I find the 737 to be an interesting beast,it's basically a 311 with green dial,patina lume and (iirc) gold hands

However the way I see the green dial 73x boutique trio is Panerai simply wanting to create demand for their not-so-popular models by putting a different dial color on them....311,346 and 514 aren't practically flying off the shelves...I've seen both 311 and 346 with warranty stamp 2-3 years later than their year stamp
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Old 15 January 2019, 10:38 AM   #140
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...I see the green dial 73x boutique trio is Panerai simply wanting to create demand for their not-so-popular models by putting a different dial color on them...
Well according to what I've seen from this year's SIHH, there will be more green, more blue, some blue-green, more carbotech, more BMG, more LAB-ID... oh and yeah, two more "super-domes"* a 932 (1940) copy with green dial (gold hands) and the same in a DLC case (black hands)... .
I personally don't like the green with the exception of the Bronzo - thanks to the way it works with the bronze color.


*Correction, make that four...
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=651036
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Old 18 January 2019, 12:12 AM   #141
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Love this


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