Given up on trying for a Rolex... please help me decide on my first big boy watch.

[Peter123]

Dear OP, I really understand what your saying about the difficulty of obtaining SS sports models. But given the money you are willing to spend get a PM Rolex sports model these are still relatively easy to come by with a discount- yellow gold sub... gmt.., Sky Dweller, Daytona etc. They hold value _ if you change your mind about it sell it. But JLC and Blancpain... your stuck with that

[jjcthe1]

Originally Posted by Peter123

Dear OP, I really understand what your saying about the difficulty of obtaining SS sports models. But given the money you are willing to spend get a PM Rolex sports model these are still relatively easy to come by with a discount- yellow gold sub... gmt.., Sky Dweller, Daytona etc. They hold value _ if you change your mind about it sell it. But JLC and Blancpain... your stuck with that

Great points here. Very true. The JLC and BPs make sure you try them on and its what you want, otherwise you are either stuck w it or selling for a loss.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by jjcthe1

As much as I would love to have a good relationship with my local dealer like i do with the local Mercedes dealer, its just not a reality when it comes to watches.

You dont need them, and they dont have anything you cant just get anywhere else (often faster, less expensive and better service) yet they act as if the "internet" is full of crooks in Africa suggesting payment via Western Union. Its insulting to my intelligence, and quite frankly without the "internet" I wouldn't have a career nor would this forum even exist.

The car is different because you need service, things happen and it just makes your life easier. It seams as though other local opportunities come up as well, meeting other small business owners, things for our charity and just general positive comradery that would never occur in any of the jewelry stores I have been in.

It acts almost the opposite in comparison to a watch purchase, you use the net to make sure the deal you are getting "locally" is good, then just do the deal locally. I order all of my cars, its almost always something obscure, hard to get, special order color etc. and they just love taking my business over and over again. Can you do that with a watch? Nope. Not without getting some BS story about how there is a shortage of stainless steel in Uganda and a prince needed silverware so you cant have your watch for 3 years......no way.

What do you mean "move you up on the list"??? Every single Rolex (for example) can be bought right now, with no list and it can be on your wrist within 36 hours. I cant think of 1 watch under 50k that you couldnt have inside that time frame.

As for NYC, you wont see me in that city unless I am making money, not spending it.

While I am sure there are ADs that genuinely care about the client, the percentage is tiny. They are there just like everyone else, to make money and move boxes.

To the OP, if you really want the Rolex, go on Chrono24, eBay etc, find it, google the sellers name, verify their reputation and send the payment. We are spoiled these days, Google does all of the due diligence for you, you just need to know which keys to stroke.

Rant over

I honestly can’t tell if you are trolling, or just completely clueless. Unless you pay 100% markup in the grey market, you can’t get a SS Daytona “within 36 hours”. Honestly, not to be overly insulting, but you seem to know nothing about the current climate of the watch market.

The comment about NYC was to point out the drastic demand vs supply issue in a city with a large population with expendable income. Tampa, and by extension your personal experience, isn’t representative of how hard it is to obtain in demand watches in a place like NYC, London or HK.

Regarding your car comment. I don’t want this to seem like I’m trashing the car scene, because cars, car meets and track days are a passion of mine. But you don’t need a great car dealership relationship any more than one needs one with a watch AD (probably less so). I can go online and find a car’s MSRP, invoice pricing and countless threads on what people paid locally. There are far more dealerships than watch boutiques and ADs...meaning far more competition and likelyhood of negotiation for a great deal on a car. From my experienc, watch salesmen are far more personable and less likely to try and sell snake-oil than a car salesman is. Watch boutiques also have gatherings, charity events and launch parties where you can meet great local people. Lastly...watches need regular service too guy. So, just make sure that online watch purchase still has a warranty.


Rant over for now...

[Peterandwatches]

It depends. There are a ton of pre-ceramic subs for less than 10k. But it’s hard to find a new Daytona for less than 19k. If you go preowned and keep your options open, you’ll find some nice choices.

[jjcthe1]

Trolling? Easy now... that is not cool, if I have insulted you, I do apologize.... My point is that there is no doubt the AD relationship is overrated. It may work for you, but it certainly does not for me or the OP, along with many other users.


As for the "market", I definitely dont know the rolex market nearly as well as others on here, but there are 15+ NEW stainless steel Daytonas on eBay right now, you can buy and have tomorrow. Sure do you have to pay 23k vs the 12k on the hang tag, but there is no wait, no AD to beg and the reality is, the watch is still worth 23k, you arent over paying for it because that is FMV of today....

The Daytona is also an extreme example. If you walk into an AD and ask for a new Deep Sea JC, the AD will laugh at you as if you asked for their first born. (This is my most recent experience trying to buy from an AD).

The reality is the market is plentiful and new ones can be had for maybe 10-15% over the hang tag and I had a new one within 4 days.

These are not investments, if you want it, its out there to be had immediately.

When my car breaks, I want it fixed as quickly as reasonably possible, be given a loaner, or if i get stuck somewhere, I would expect immediate support, etc.

Do you have that experience at your AD with a watch? No one does. In fact you probably wont see it for months and that for some reason has become an industry standard thats just accepted. No relationship can quicken that process.

Anyway I dont want to argue, I am just sharing my experiences. Hope you didnt take any of this the wrong way. I agree car salesman can be worse, maybe I am spoiled with the car relationship and you are spoiled with the AD.

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I honestly can’t tell if you are trolling, or just completely clueless. Unless you pay 100% markup in the grey market, you can’t get a SS Daytona “within 36 hours”. Honestly, not to be overly insulting, but you seem to know nothing about the current climate of the watch market.

The comment about NYC was to point out the drastic demand vs supply issue in a city with a large population with expendable income. Tampa, and by extension your personal experience, isn’t representative of how hard it is to obtain in demand watches in a place like NYC, London or HK.

Regarding your car comment. I don’t want this to seem like I’m trashing the car scene, because cars, car meets and track days are a passion of mine. But you don’t need a great car dealership relationship any more than one needs one with a watch AD (probably less so). I can go online and find a car’s MSRP, invoice pricing and countless threads on what people paid locally. There are far more dealerships than watch boutiques and ADs...meaning far more competition and likelyhood of negotiation for a great deal on a car. From my experienc, watch salesmen are far more personable and less likely to try and sell snake-oil than a car salesman is. Watch boutiques also have gatherings, charity events and launch parties where you can meet great local people. Lastly...watches need regular service too guy. So, just make sure that online watch purchase still has a warranty.


Rant over for now...

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by jjcthe1

Trolling? Easy now... that is not cool, if I have insulted you, I do apologize.... My point is that there is no doubt the AD relationship is overrated. It may work for you, but it certainly does not for me or the OP, along with many other users.


As for the "market", I definitely dont know the rolex market nearly as well as others on here, but there are 15+ NEW stainless steel Daytonas on eBay right now, you can buy and have tomorrow. Sure do you have to pay 23k vs the 12k on the hang tag, but there is no wait, no AD to beg and the reality is, the watch is still worth 23k, you arent over paying for it because that is FMV of today....

The Daytona is also an extreme example. If you walk into an AD and ask for a new Deep Sea JC, the AD will laugh at you as if you asked for their first born. (This is my most recent experience trying to buy from an AD).

The reality is the market is plentiful and new ones can be had for maybe 10-15% over the hang tag and I had a new one within 4 days.

These are not investments, if you want it, its out there to be had immediately.

When my car breaks, I want it fixed as quickly as reasonably possible, be given a loaner, or if i get stuck somewhere, I would expect immediate support, etc.

Do you have that experience at your AD with a watch? No one does. In fact you probably wont see it for months and that for some reason has become an industry standard thats just accepted. No relationship can quicken that process.

Anyway I dont want to argue, I am just sharing my experiences. Hope you didnt take any of this the wrong way. I agree car salesman can be worse, maybe I am spoiled with the car relationship and you are spoiled with the AD.

No offense taken. Hopefully I didn’t come across as insulting, I just generally find discussions with differing opinions to be fun.

Fair to say we have different experiences. My apologies if you were insinuating that one can pay a premium to get an in demand watch, and get that watch quickly in doing so. I came under the impression that you were thinking that you could get an in demand SS watch easily at msrp. The paying premium vs waitlists are a long debated topic on here. Both sides have valid points.

If it’s a simple watch repair, yes, i can go to my local AD, who has a watchmaker on location, and resolve my issue that day if possible.

I actually have had decent experiences with car dealerships, and have a great relationship with my tuner shop. But, I buy watches far more often than cars, and the watches I’m after are harder to obtain than the cars I own. So, I value having an “in” at my local watch AD than a dealership. If I bought one watch every 3 years and changed my car every 3 years, I’d likely have a different perspective.

Either way, different mentalities lead to different opinions.

[jjcthe1]

Isnt this the one you want??: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=651460

Originally Posted by Hogtown Fatty

After a few years of trying, I've officially given up on Rolex- the whole situation is utter bs. They've made it not fun. It's crazy that it's no longer enough to have +/-$10k ready to drop on a watch. I'm not dropping $100k+ on jewellery and DJ's @ an AD to earn the "privilege" of getting to buy an overhyped $10k ss tool/sport watch. Sorry, but there is no justification... "they're kept aside to reward faithful customers"- do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Yes, of course I'm bitter about it, but also finally over it.

Anyways, I've been looking at some alternatives and would appreciate your opinions, as well as some further recommendations worth looking into. I'm not looking for anything in specific, just a nice durable watch I can use day in, day out and keep it for life.

JLC Memovox Tribute to Deep Sea. Aesthetically this watch is a banger, imo. Super clean, minimal, and stealthy look which I really dig, plus JLC is of a legendary heritage.

http://www.my-watchsite.com/10677-la...o-deep-sea.jpg

Blancpain Fifty Fathoms mil-spec. Aesthetically quite similar to the above, albeit with a slightly busier dial.

https://www.blancpain.com/sites/defa.../images/pr.jpg

I like the above two watches a lot. The aesthetic really appeals to me, as does the history behind them. Plus I like their sort of quirky vibe. Sadly it seems like the bracelet/strap on both was an afterthought, as seems to be the case with many watches. How do the two watches compare?

Vacheron Constantin Overseas Chronograph (the panda variant). I'm confused about this watch. If I didn't know of the 15202 and 5711, I'd love the Overseas a lot more than I do, but knowing of the aforementioned watches simply makes me feel like I'm settling for a failed/regurgitated Genta design. The bracelet isn't as strong (imo) as either the AP or Patek and the bezel seems like a poor attempt at establishing a unique aesthetic. That said, there's still something I very much enjoy about the way this watch looks- particularly the panda variant I'm interested in.

Photo 1: https://cdn.gearpatrol.com/wp-conten...l-ambiance.jpg

Photo 2: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/77...09e2d05566.jpg

Panerai PAM 249. The visuals of this piece evoke a strong sense of nostalgia for me due to the similarity to my grandfathers watches which I grew up around. None of them were by any notable marque, but they all had that old world look which I love. I also feel the 249 is one of very few note worthy pieces Panerai has produced since the late 90's.

Photo: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/3jIAA...MWP/s-l640.jpg

Omega Speedmaster. I like Speedmasters. I like them a lot (from an aesthetic standpoint). A lot a lot. In fact, I think it's a much more handsome watch than the Daytona. But-- and I'm sorry for this--, it'll always (to me) feel like settling/admitting defeat. Couldn't get a Rolex, so went Omega. I know there's no shortage of literature on the whole Rolex vs. Omega thing, but I often come away confused and feel I've learned nothing at all... objectively speaking, is Rolex really the superior watch? Better movement, nicer finishing, more durable? or are they on the same level? I of course understand Omega's aren't as desirable as the popular ss models.

The thing I'm worried about with some of the above options is that they seem like novelty pieces, not suited for everyday use (i.e. the 249, JLC, and Blancpain). What do you guys think?

Of course an AP 15202 or Patek 5711 would be lovely, but everyone knows the waits on those are as bad if not worse than those for a Pepsi or Daytona. I have even considered an FPJ CB, but know it's likely not the most obtainable watch either. Certain AP and Lange models interest me as well. Ideally would like to stay under $20-25k. I have read many bad things about AP though and that worries me... they don't seem to be very robust and seem to spend quite a bit of time in repair shops.

I could go the Rolex route actually and get an Explorer II, Submariner, or older GMT II, but none of those make me go quite as wild as the 50th anni Sea-Dweller (SD43), Daytona, or newer Pepsi GMT. Yes, all "hype" watches, but that aside, they're the ones I really like the best. I was also considering going the PM route, specifically for an Oysterflex Daytona 116518, but I'm not sure I want to have that much tied up in my first watch. Yes, this is my very first "real"/big boy watch. I've chose to go without anything on my wrist for the past several years rather than to wear just anything. I know that might sound super snobby and elitist, but I promise you it doesn't come from such a place. It's just a personal thing, having been deeply into watches since I was a kid.

Please do let me know of any other alternatives you think might be worth considering.

[opawlows]

Originally Posted by jjcthe1

Isnt this the one you want??: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=651460

With the exchange rate and tariffs, as the OP is in Canada, this would end up costing about double what his budget is.