177 vs 564

[SpeedyMcNasty]

Hey All,

So I had another thread about this topic, but it had a stupid title so I figured I would start a new one with the proper subject line to try and catch more of the experts (though I did get good advice on the other thread too!).

I had read somewhere that the 177 had a slightly domed crystal, is that true? Do any owners have a side shot that shows the dome? I did google pictures, but it was tough to tell. I am a big enough fan of domed crystals that that would be enough of a differentiation to sway me toward the 177. It doesn't bother me that the 177 had an ETA based movement, in fact it seems some prefer it to the in house movement. Regarding the 564, I like the brown dial, but it is so dark that it is difficult to tell it isn't black, so that makes it tough to opt for the 564 for the sake of the brown dial.

My one concern was the size, but I tried the base dial version of the 564 at an AD, and it fit well. I loved how light the titanium made the watch, as well.

[eal15]

I’d go for the in house movement 564


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[mfer]

Originally Posted by eal15

I’d go for the in house movement 564


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Isn’t go for the workhorse 6497 PAM 177

The xtal is slightly curved but not like the 233/270 for example.

[Cru Jones]

177 for robust and easy-to-service ETA movement and no "8 DAYS" on the dial.

If the tobacco dial is important with the Ti, look for a 61 or 118.

[eal15]

Cru, what models do you have? I’m curious on your Panerai tastes. Simplicity over complications etc?


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[WatchObsess]

176

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[SpeedyMcNasty]

Originally Posted by WatchObsess

176

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Thanks for those pics, looks like a slight curve.

I like the looks of that 61 buckle, the modern buckles aren't a deal breaker, but they aren't my favorite.

Seems like most prefer the ETA based movements.

[Dan2010]

I prefer the in house movements rightly or wrongly. Its a luxury product. I'm not sweating if it costs a bit more to service. That's just me.

[stockae92]

the older "pre-P5000" 44mm luminor has a "more dome" crystal

at least looking at the dial from an angle, the "current P5000" 44mm luminor will take you more "viewing angle"

If "dome" crystal is what you are after, go with the 177. Go with 564 if you like the "fat 6" on the dial. :)

[SpeedyMcNasty]

Originally Posted by stockae92

the older "pre-P5000" 44mm luminor has a "more dome" crystal

at least looking at the dial from an angle, the "current P5000" 44mm luminor will take you more "viewing angle"

If "dome" crystal is what you are after, go with the 177. Go with 564 if you like the "fat 6" on the dial. :)

I’m still learning a lot about the brand, what does fat 6 mean? I guess I can see slight differences in the font, but until you said that I hadn’t even considered the font. Add it to the list! Ha

[stockae92]

ops, sorry, the font on the number on the P5000 equipped 44mm Luminor are different than the old dial, if you do a side by side comparison, you can tell the 564 font will be more round. :)

[SpeedyMcNasty]

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification! I do see a difference, thanks!

[mfer]

Originally Posted by Dan2010

I prefer the in house movements rightly or wrongly. Its a luxury product. I'm not sweating if it costs a bit more to service. That's just me.

Have you serviced an in-house Panerai yet?

[Dan2010]

Originally Posted by mfer

Have you serviced an in-house Panerai yet?

Haven't needed to. Have had plenty Rolex and Omegas serviced though.

[mfer]

Originally Posted by Dan2010

Haven't needed to. Have had plenty Rolex and Omegas serviced though.

Therein lies the problem. Panerai is plagued with bad service centers. The stories are numerous and I too have been affected.

[Dan2010]

Originally Posted by mfer

Therein lies the problem. Panerai is plagued with bad service centers. The stories are numerous and I too have been affected.

I understand. Been in the watch world for awhile though and 'ill still take an in house movement.

[eal15]

I agree I’ve had three in house movements service. I’m 50% effective lol. After a two year Panerai break I’m coming back with an in house but dimple p9000 movement.


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[mfer]

Originally Posted by eal15

I agree I’ve had three in house movements service. I’m 50% effective lol. After a two year Panerai break I’m coming back with an in house but dimple p9000 movement.


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Lol. Does that mean one of them was returned 3 times for one service?!?!

[eal15]

I wish. Two different watches with the p2004. First one was sent back a few time in succession and then a year later more problem. Basically the same on a different watch a few years later. The p9000 I had was bullet proof. I’m hoping to replicate that lol.


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[SpeedyMcNasty]

I found a local dealer with a 177 H and a 564, so I think I am going to go over and look at them tomorrow. I was offered a good discount on the 564 over the phone, and the 177 from 2006 was only marginally less. do the 177's hold their value better?

It seems with the different models, sometimes the series number matters. How the H sits with people?

[sanosan34]

I just picked up a pre-owned 564 Q series and I absolutely love it. I’m sure either 177 or 564 will be great for you.

FYI Panerai changed from sandwich dial to sausage dial at some point for the p5000 watches. My 564 Q has sandwich, but I believe 564 R or later have sausage dials. This is true for 510, 562, 564, and possibly other p5000 Bettarini Luminors.

[SpeedyMcNasty]

Originally Posted by sanosan34

I just picked up a pre-owned 564 Q series and I absolutely love it. I’m sure either 177 or 564 will be great for you.

FYI Panerai changed from sandwich dial to sausage dial at some point for the p5000 watches. My 564 Q has sandwich, but I believe 564 R or later have sausage dials. This is true for 510, 562, 564, and possibly other p5000 Bettarini Luminors.

Good point, I definitely want a sandwich dial.

[JohnFM]

I have a 176 (no seconds hand) and a 564. The 564 winds more smoothly and holds a wind MUCH longer, which I prefer. But the 176 has a simpler dial, including sandwich and less writing, so I prefer it overall. I would guess the older Panerais with 6497 movements will retain their value better, but it's hard to predict. The one thing I don't like about the 564 -- too much writing on the dial, especially '8 days'.

John

[itsjknight]

I’ve had the 560 for a couple of years now and I love it. I also like the 8 days on the dial.

[brtt485]

Hi All -
I am weighing this same decision and thought I would bump this thread ttt to see if anyone had any additional or new feedback.

Thanks!

[synequano]

Personally I pick 6497 based watch as it's easier to service if there's a problem,and spare parts should be available

Another bonus is 176/177 are the only titanium bettarini with sandwich and black dial combo,I find it easier to mix and match the straps

[Deityjazz]

Thanks for the clarification. Difference clear

[brtt485]

Thanks for your help. I understand the ease/cost of service difference between the two movements but is one more robust/reliable/better than the other?

[synequano]

P5000 is a hit or miss kind of movement,some perform within COSC,some do perform way outside COSC and you're basically at the mercy of pam service for adjustments

While there's a chance for erratic timekeeping on 6497,they're a bit easier to adjust

If I have to choose 8 days movt,I'd go with P2002 that's rumored to be phased out soon as P5000 is cheaper to produce

[brtt485]

Good info. Thank you. Are there titanium case (brushed case and bezel) options with the P2002 movement?