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Old 16 November 2019, 01:52 PM   #1
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Did Seiko Screwp Up Their Branding

Very new to the world of Grand Seiko...in fact, it's only been a few days.

But the first thing that came to mind when I was visiting the local GS AD was...are these watches really Seiko's?

When Toyota went upscale with Lexus, they didn't call their new line 'Grand Toyota'! Nope, they knew better and came out with new branding.

Why on earth didn't Seiko follow suit?
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Old 16 November 2019, 02:05 PM   #2
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Follow suit? Grand Seiko has been around since 1960.
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Old 16 November 2019, 02:08 PM   #3
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But Kintaro kicked off in 1881?
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Old 16 November 2019, 02:10 PM   #4
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Have you heard of Credor?
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Old 16 November 2019, 02:13 PM   #5
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Eh, at the end of the day, those who know, know. Those you don’t, dont. We’re talking about pieces of art way less common than a Toyota or even a Lexus.

Did they screw it up? Yeah, prob. But if they didn’t and had good marketing (a la Rolex) the GS ADs would be empty and waitlist would be stupid.

I like where the brand is at now, obtainable for those who “know”


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Old 16 November 2019, 02:28 PM   #6
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I think they've done a good job with the Grand Seiko brand. It's highly respected among enthusiasts. I think they should reduce the number of offerings to make their lineup more coherent/collectible but overall GS is doing well.

It's the other branding that they're messing up. Prospex, Presage, and Seiko Five branding are all dumb. They're trying too hard. Those can just be "Seikos" imho. If you must differentiate them and throw a Prospex logo on the caseback, fine, but those brands on the dials are almost universally disliked by collectors. And yet Seiko is leaning in even more towards putting those 3 weak sub-brands on everything.
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Old 16 November 2019, 03:41 PM   #7
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Nop, only you got screwed up!


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Old 16 November 2019, 04:16 PM   #8
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I think their brand positioning has been well thought-out and, most importantly, they are executing their actual product at a high level and thereby answering the brand promise...

I love their watches...giving the Crown a run for their money.
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Old 16 November 2019, 04:33 PM   #9
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If you’re a noob to Seiko it can seem like they missed an opportunity but in the Japanese culture of the 60s, Seiko was always revered. Remember, Seiko is a fully integrated in-house manufacturing company. Adding Grand or King to Seiko was a huge move at the time. No shame in Seiko whatsoever. It’s like having a car with a base, mid, luxe model variants. Still the same base cars but very different with added features and appointments. Lexus was only done in Europe and NA because early Japanese cars were seen as reliable and economic but not luxurious. So there’s a reason to launch a Lexus for Toyota, Infinity for Nissan, Acura for Honda etc... Seiko wasn’t trying to hide or reposition anything.
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Old 16 November 2019, 04:40 PM   #10
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Very new to the world of Grand Seiko...in fact, it's only been a few days.



But the first thing that came to mind when I was visiting the local GS AD was...are these watches really Seiko's?



When Toyota went upscale with Lexus, they didn't call their new line 'Grand Toyota'! Nope, they knew better and came out with new branding.



Why on earth didn't Seiko follow suit?
It is a matter of perspective. Lexus is not a high end car. Rolls Royce and Ferrari, those are high end cars. Similarly, Grand Seiko and Rolex are not high end watches. Patek and Credor are high end watches, and Credor is Seiko's high end offering.

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Old 16 November 2019, 04:44 PM   #11
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It depends: do you wear branding or the watch?
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Old 16 November 2019, 04:49 PM   #12
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I think they've done a good job with the Grand Seiko brand. It's highly respected among enthusiasts. I think they should reduce the number of offerings to make their lineup more coherent/collectible but overall GS is doing well.

It's the other branding that they're messing up. Prospex, Presage, and Seiko Five branding are all dumb. They're trying too hard. Those can just be "Seikos" imho. If you must differentiate them and throw a Prospex logo on the caseback, fine, but those brands on the dials are almost universally disliked by collectors. And yet Seiko is leaning in even more towards putting those 3 weak sub-brands on everything.
I dont mind the Seiko 5. Especially the original branding.

I agree with Presage and Prospex though. Especially Presage. Prospex more tolerable for me. But dont mind having it absent as well.
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Old 16 November 2019, 08:27 PM   #13
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they should’ve kept the brand alive back in the 70s. It feels like when they revived the brand in 1998, they had to start from scratch again.

I think it’ll take some time before GS name will resonate with consumers (non-enthusiasts).


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Old 17 November 2019, 12:24 AM   #14
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They have Credor.
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Old 17 November 2019, 07:52 AM   #15
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I think theyre named it grand seiko to raise the profile of seiko, kept the relation deliberate
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Old 17 November 2019, 11:20 AM   #16
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Dont really have a problem with the Grand Seiko name. But agree they should have differentiate the product line earlier for more effective marketing.

What I am more concern is that some Seiko watches are going upscale and features Grand Seiko movement and features like Springdrive and Zaratzu polishing in an attempt to justify higher prices. This kind of blur the two product line somewhat.
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Old 17 November 2019, 11:32 AM   #17
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Dont really have a problem with the Grand Seiko name. But agree they should have differentiate the product line earlier for more effective marketing.

What I am more concern is that some Seiko watches are going upscale and features Grand Seiko movement and features like Springdrive and Zaratzu polishing in an attempt to justify higher prices. This kind of blur the two product line somewhat.
Having handled alot of ‘highend’ regular seikos, i really hope seiko becomes the sports/tool watch company while grand seiko becomes exclusively the dress and casual (heritage and elegance?)

That would push seiko upmarket, differentiate the two brands

All this prospex, presrage, astron, lx etc etc is just too confusing and is starting to overlap with grand seiko. For grand seiko, lets face it, they dont do great sports models, and seiko is in a better position with being able to leverage their history in this area
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Old 17 November 2019, 11:50 AM   #18
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I think Seiko did well by branching off Grand Seiko as its own entity. Own a few Grand Seikos myself.

As @benlee mentioned, I don't understand why the Seiko's Baswelwrold releases, particularly the Prospex LX Line, incorporates features from supposedly exclusive Grand Seiko traits - Spring Drive and Zaratsu polishing into the Seiko line of watches. While the price point is high, they could've just gone with making these watches as Grand Seiko watches. Albeit the finishing on these watches are a tad off what I'd normally expect from Grand Seiko having held one in the flesh the other day.

GS is also falling prey to its own success and following Omegas footsteps with a bunch of limited edition releases for almost every watch they come out with.
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Old 17 November 2019, 12:22 PM   #19
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But thats the thing, theyve had these gs traits on seikos for a while now
Spring drive with their marinemaster 600, tuna 1000 & land master
Zaratsu polishing on the marinemaster 300, and the SLA-reissues
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Old 17 November 2019, 07:25 PM   #20
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For grand seiko, lets face it, they dont do great sports models, and seiko is in a better position with being able to leverage their history in this area
I am sorry but lets face what?

Couldn't disagree more.

They have one of the best looking divers on the market.
They offer it in steel and Ti and is finished to the highest level.

Granted, it feels 'high end' and does not feel like a pure 'tool' watch, but who uses their +5K watches as tools still?

As a 'luxury' sport offering it is, to me, the best you can get.
Maybe the new SeaQ big date from Glashütte will come close at double the price.

Also did you notice they recently released a new sport watch case that is bold, loud and ubercool?
That case is going to play a major role in defining GS as a sport watch manufacturer as well. For the moment 3 limited editions have been released but I am convinced there will be more models coming out with this case.

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Old 17 November 2019, 08:47 PM   #21
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I am sorry but lets face what?

Couldn't disagree more.

They have one of the best looking divers on the market.
They offer it in steel and Ti and is finished to the highest level.

Granted, it feels 'high end' and does not feel like a pure 'tool' watch, but who uses their +5K watches as tools still?

As a 'luxury' sport offering it is, to me, the best you can get.
Maybe the new SeaQ big date from Glashütte will come close at double the price.

Also did you notice they recently released a new sport watch case that is bold, loud and ubercool?
That case is going to play a major role in defining GS as a sport watch manufacturer as well. For the moment 3 limited editions have been released but I am convinced there will be more models coming out with this case.

I do admit that is killer
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Old 17 November 2019, 10:09 PM   #22
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I think theyre named it grand seiko to raise the profile of seiko, kept the relation deliberate
Interesting thought. One that I never considered.
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Old 17 November 2019, 10:48 PM   #23
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Interesting thought. One that I never considered.
It certainly made my (7000 others on all three reissues) decision to spend 7/8k aud on my regular seikos easier knowing they come from the same grand seiko factory

Reverse psychology at its finest
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Old 18 November 2019, 07:41 AM   #24
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It is a matter of perspective. Lexus is not a high end car. Rolls Royce and Ferrari, those are high end cars. Similarly, Grand Seiko and Rolex are not high end watches. Patek and Credor are high end watches, and Credor is Seiko's high end offering.

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Old 18 November 2019, 12:15 PM   #25
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I think the general population will not understand GS even if the name was called anything else. I really only see Swiss watches being considered luxury so to speak because people generally understand that. But watch people should know GS and other non-Swiss brands. I do however meet people who sell watches who don't really know GS or like once at a Rolex AD the lady didn't know much about Tudor and in some of the areas Tudor excells over Rolex, but it was more of a jewelry store than a watch store and they didn't carry Tudor at that location.
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Old 18 November 2019, 12:39 PM   #26
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It depends: do you wear branding or the watch?
This is the question that only few will answer honestly.
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Old 18 November 2019, 04:13 PM   #27
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This is the question that only few will answer honestly.
Especially here of all places.
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Old 21 November 2019, 06:23 AM   #28
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How would you know seeing as you ride donkeys
They leak far less than any of the aforementioned vehicles.

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Old 22 November 2019, 01:24 PM   #29
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No they didn’t
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Old 22 November 2019, 01:43 PM   #30
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If you are into watches, you know GS is one of the top brand in the world, not to say the most accurate of them all. They are also know to have some of best finishes, especially at this price point.
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