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Old Yesterday, 11:58 PM   #1
Jules1975
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FOUND .... well kind of

Hi,
My husbands 2008 Submariner 50th Anniversary (Kermit) was stolen in June 2016. As per this thread https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=479199

Well, i've looked online and on ebay periodically over the last 4 years, then yesterday, I found the watch, on a sold page at a Watch Dealer in Surrey. It seemingly was sold in Oct 2017.

I have spoken to the owner of the business, explained and asked him to find out who he bought it from and sold it to as it is stolen, and it was (and still is) on the Rolex Stolen register. Quite why they didnt check that at the time is beyond me. He has gone to look at paperwork as their computer system doesnt go back to 2017.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, we were paid by insurance, but not the value of the watch, they only paid 50% of its market value as we we had only specified a gents rolex on the policy, so they got out of a full claim due to a technicality!

What should I do? Insurance, Police, etc. We would like the watch back, and to pay the insurance company back what they paid out. It was bought as an investment, so the intention was always to keep it :(

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Julie
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Old Today, 12:36 AM   #2
Deroya
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50% of its "market value" at that time should have still been around or still a bit higher than MSRP... is that not good enough? Doubt youll be able to get the watch back and give money back to an insurance company. Im guessing you want this as an option as the watch is now probably worth 4-5x MSRP due to this ridiculous market we are in? Afraid you may need to put this one behind you. If you wanted it back for the right reasons I could understand but....

PS - Watches aren't meant to be investments.
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Old Today, 12:38 AM   #3
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Your insurance paid the claim and you agreed to it. The new owner of the watch bought it in good faith and I can’t imagine anyone, police or insurance, attempting to go after him. Maybe you can make an offer to buy it back through the selling dealer.
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Old Today, 12:43 AM   #4
peterpl
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You wont get the watch back. You've already been paid by insurance. It doesnt work in the way that your suggesting.

If anything the insurance company should get it back. I have a inclination your only trying to do this because you want to cash in on the growth of Rolex since 2016 and that was really when all the hype started.
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Old Today, 12:49 AM   #5
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You wont get the watch back. You've already been paid by insurance. It doesnt work in the way that your suggesting.

If anything the insurance company should get it back. I have a inclination your only trying to do this because you want to cash in on the growth of Rolex since 2016 and that was really when all the hype started.
Exactly that.
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Old Today, 12:51 AM   #6
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Insurance paid you, unfortunately I believe this is the insurance companies watch now
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Old Today, 12:51 AM   #7
Jules1975
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Wow. Thats not the response I expected.

Quite honestly the whole theft of the watch was massively emotional for my husband, particularly as he suspected that a 'friend' had stolen it. All he ever wanted was the watch back, not the money.

And no 50% of the value was not enough. He paid £6k for it a year previous, at the time it was stolen the same watch to replace was £8-9k and he was paid £4k. I'm not sure how that would ever be OK, which is why I did all I could to try and help him find it.

I'm in the UK and the Insurance Broker has suggested that we should be able to buy it back if we can find it.

No, its not the new owners fault, but the dealer should have surely checked to see if it was stolen before buying and selling it.
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Old Today, 12:53 AM   #8
Jules1975
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Exactly that.
I do not want to 'cash in' on the hype. My husband has had 3 Rolex's in the 15 years we have been together, and I also have one. Its hardly a new thing for us. I'm not sure why the victim of a theft needs to be challenged in this way :(
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Old Today, 12:57 AM   #9
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Well, you are asking for advice from strangers on the internet. Right or wrong it sounds as though you haven't contacted those authorities who might actually tell you the same thing these strangers on the internet just told you.

Sorry to hear about your loss, but as others have said you did accept the money so at this point I don't think you have any recourse. But I'm not the police or your insurance agent so I suggest you contact one of them instead.
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Old Today, 01:08 AM   #10
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Sorry to hear this happened Julie.

I’m confused about your brokers suggestion that you should be able to buy it back if you can find it ... what exactly does that mean?
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Old Today, 01:08 AM   #11
Jules1975
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I understand.
I have never been in this position before so was unsure of the right course of action. I have made contact with the insurance agent, but personally I would like to know who sold it to the dealer first off. And once I involve authorities that is taken out of my control. Theft doesn't sit well with me!
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Old Today, 01:11 AM   #12
Jules1975
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Sorry to hear this happened Julie.

Iím confused about your brokers suggestion that you should be able to buy it back if you can find it ... what exactly does that mean?
Thanks Brandrea, The insurance agents seemed to imply that yes, it is the property of the insurance company, however as this was stolen (not lost) with a police reference, that if we repaid the insurance company what they paid out, we could be able to own it again.
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Old Today, 01:15 AM   #13
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Sounds like your SOL. That happened to me on an old corvette. It was found out of state 7 years later and the insurance company had first and full rights of ownership. I wish I never took that claim.

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Old Today, 01:16 AM   #14
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Thanks Brandrea, The insurance agents seemed to imply that yes, it is the property of the insurance company, however as this was stolen (not lost) with a police reference, that if we repaid the insurance company what they paid out, we could be able to own it again.
That's an interesting position for them to take since they've already paid the claim.

I'd be inclined to run that past another more senior associate at your brokers office. Do they have legal on staff to comment?

Edit: assuming that your broker have their own legal, you don’t really have much to lose IMHO.

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Old Today, 01:21 AM   #15
DonRickles
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Kinda cold answer here but.....

1. Let's hope this "friend" of your husband's is history.....

2. Buying a watch for investment.....didn't payoff so well.

I've read on some car forums where stolen cars have been returned to the original owners.....even after the insurance companies have shelled out for the loss.

I truly wish you the best of luck on it's return to you!

Damn thieves......"If it doesn't belong to you, don't touch it" Grandma's words
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Old Today, 01:21 AM   #16
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Sounds awful what you and your husband is going through. I have never heard of insurance companies allowing anyone to buy back articles that have been claimed and paid out. But thatís in the US and maybe things are different. Good luck.
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Old Today, 01:23 AM   #17
DonRickles
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Sounds like your SOL. That happened to me on an old corvette. It was found out of state 7 years later and the insurance company had first and full rights of ownership. I wish I never took that claim.

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Damn.....what year was the vette?
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Old Today, 01:25 AM   #18
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Julie, sucks you and your husband got taken like that, it’s such a violation. I don’t know about the insurance end of it but I wouldn’t hesitate to explore that option further. Doesn’t hurt to ask.
I would certainty notify the police, it might not help any but there’s the possibility that they might have success on tracking down a low life and get his/her name on file for the future. They might even know about them already. It couldn’t hurt and might help someone else from getting taken by this particular vermin down the road. Good luck
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Old Today, 01:29 AM   #19
Jules1975
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Kinda cold answer here but.....

1. Let's hope this "friend" of your husband's is history.....

2. Buying a watch for investment.....didn't payoff so well.

I've read on some car forums where stolen cars have been returned to the original owners.....even after the insurance companies have shelled out for the loss.

I truly wish you the best of luck on it's return to you!

Damn thieves......"If it doesn't belong to you, don't touch it" Grandma's words

Yes, he's history..... although it was never proven, so part of me would like closure on that, as opposed to us thinking the worst of someone who might be innocent (long shot!)

No, it didnt pay off well.... he's since bought a Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona, but its not a Kermit. He could have bought another Kermit for the price he paid for the Daytona, but I think it was too raw. That said - if he did get it back he'd love it, and keep it locked in the safe!!

p.s - your grandma was right!
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Old Today, 01:29 AM   #20
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I have a inclination your only trying to do this because you want to cash in on the growth of Rolex since 2016 and that was really when all the hype started.
Not cool
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Old Today, 01:31 AM   #21
Jules1975
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Julie, sucks you and your husband got taken like that, itís such a violation. I donít know about the insurance end of it but I wouldnít hesitate to explore that option further. Doesnít hurt to ask.
I would certainty notify the police, it might not help any but thereís the possibility that they might have success on tracking down a low life and get his/her name on file for the future. They might even know about them already. It couldnít hurt and might help someone else from getting taken by this particular vermin down the road. Good luck
Thank you NYC6. The sleepy police here in the Wiltshire countryside dont seem interested in solving crimes ever, I'm better off doing that myself for the effort they'd put in.
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Old Today, 01:36 AM   #22
Jules1975
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What if someone had stolen my great-grandma's pearl necklace that had sentimental value as well as market value.

I would want that back because it was my grandma's necklace.... not just because it was worth money, irrespective of whether an insurance company paid out.

Do people not have attachment to watches in the same vain??

I do to mine, I have had it since 2007, and I love it :)
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Old Today, 01:40 AM   #23
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Damn.....what year was the vette?
"67 327/350.

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Old Today, 01:40 AM   #24
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Yes, he's history..... although it was never proven, so part of me would like closure on that, as opposed to us thinking the worst of someone who might be innocent (long shot!)

No, it didnt pay off well.... he's since bought a Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona, but its not a Kermit. He could have bought another Kermit for the price he paid for the Daytona, but I think it was too raw. That said - if he did get it back he'd love it, and keep it locked in the safe!!

p.s - your grandma was right!


I've always said, without 100% proof, never make an accusation....

My house,while under restoration, many years ago was burglarized. I know who it was, not a friend but my old next door neighbor. I am 100% positive it was him, as he was pulling away from the site way too early one morning. At the time I didn't realize, he had filled his van with so many antiques, hardware and collectibles from the old house. Every time I look at the closet doors with missing antique hardware, I'm reminded of the theft......Too many years have gone by now, heck it took me years to just figure it out. Nothing now I can do but let it go.....If I ever ran into this chump I'm not sure what I'd do.....

Again, best of luck and congrats on the Rolexes!!!
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Old Today, 01:41 AM   #25
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If you really want it back, find out who bought it and offer to buy it back from them. Explaining itís on the register and it was stolen will help the cause.


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Old Today, 01:42 AM   #26
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50% of its "market value" at that time should have still been around or still a bit higher than MSRP... is that not good enough? Doubt youll be able to get the watch back and give money back to an insurance company. Im guessing you want this as an option as the watch is now probably worth 4-5x MSRP due to this ridiculous market we are in? Afraid you may need to put this one behind you. If you wanted it back for the right reasons I could understand but....

PS - Watches aren't meant to be investments.

50% of its market value paid, with additions would help you get a new one since youíve already accepted payment from insurance...donít stress much.
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Old Today, 01:42 AM   #27
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"67 327/350.

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Wowza! She was a beaut!!!!
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Old Today, 01:46 AM   #28
Jules1975
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50% of its market value paid, with additions would help you get a new one since youíve already accepted payment from insurance...donít stress much.
In principal I believe, he doesn't want a new one - he wants his. Which is why when he bought a replacement, he didnt buy a Kermit.

He was paid £4k in 2016, and to replace it now in 2020 it would be £15k at least, at the time it was stolen it was worth £8k.

He has a friend at Rolex UK who advised him to buy a Kermit in 2015, and sourced an A1 2nd hand one for him.
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Old Today, 01:51 AM   #29
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Wowza! She was a beaut!!!!
Thanks Don.. She left a lot of good memories and was a roadrunner killer too.. had many after but that was the one.

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Old Today, 02:02 AM   #30
DonRickles
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Thanks Don.. She left a lot of good memories and was a roadrunner killer too.. had many after but that was the one.

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"Beautiful memories are wonderful things, that last until the longest day."

For the OP too!
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