when patina is too good to be true

[CharlieMae]

Vincent: I cant speak for the rest of the Rolex world, but if you feel that the watches he is selling all look "similar" due to differences in monitor calibration and "lighting and photographic/finishing/filtration techniques", well... You are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine.

I'll let the rest of the forum state their own opinions, you know mine.

[polarinda]

Originally Posted by subtona

That is well said.

That about sums it up.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by CharlieMae

Let me elaborate...



No one is saying the seller:





Isn't honest or professional

No dog in this fight, but that is exactly what you are saying.

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by CharlieMae

Vincent: I cant speak for the rest of the Rolex world, but if you feel that the watches he is selling all look "similar" due to differences in monitor calibration and "lighting and photographic/finishing/filtration techniques", well... You are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine.

I'll let the rest of the forum state their own opinions, you know mine.

Charlie: No, that's just the point - I'm not saying they are ALL anything.

You are indeed entitled to your opinion, like everyone else, and no, you cannot speak for 'the rest of the Rolex world' (whatever that means) or, indeed, anyone else. The difference is; I have not made any emphatic and sweeping statements about all his wares, unlike your firmly held insinuations, stated as 'facts'. Pretty bold assertions

Some examples may well raise a question-mark, and I never said otherwise. I just made the observation that you seem to be absolutely certain that 'hundreds' have all been similarly misrepresented, for many years, and I merely suggested (as have others) that a certain uniformity in 'patination' may be due to photographic representation. That's all.

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by SMD

No dog in this fight, but that is exactly what you are saying.

"That about sums it up"

[polarinda]

I guess...."buy the watch" from now on?

[oldLeatherNeck]

You guys are missing the big picture.

1. Those who stated "FACTS", please provide a concrete evidence ie: an actual BUYER who claimed the watch he bought from "said" seller has been lazer-welded, and or the dial patina has been doctored, whatever the method.

2. Your attempt to ostracize the DUDE because of his non-disclosure or "exaggeration" is "personal" attack in disguise. Most of the vintage pieces I see offered on here or other sites have been doctored as well. I've seen claims that the lugs are thick, and bevels are sharp, when they are obviously have been re-cut. Hands have been colored match ever so often by volume "reputable" dealers( though disclosed ) seems to be OK. No one of you call those dealers out, as it seems to be acceptable. This is a disservice to TRF members here, as most vintage newbies turn to forums like TRF to get advice. I cringe when I see lots of members here proudly present their watches having just bought it off from a highly praised seller with colored hands, with the dial that I know was just bought "loose" recently; cases that have been recently re-done/re-cut , etc.. Worst are the ones with the top lugs touching the lug holes as the result from the amateurish attempt to re-cut the bevels by the sellers.

3. This guy is no angel, but he's just like other sellers. So, buyers beware.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

Quite a few absolute statements of 'fact' here. You seem pretty sure of yourself! They don't all look the same shade of orange to me (or even a majority), and not all of them 'magically match' either, but maybe your monitor/vision is very different from mine. Neither are ALL of them described as unpolished, from what I'm reading, and have read, for years...

I think a lot of it is simply down to presentation: lighting and photographic/finishing/filtration techniques. Then, of course a uniformity of various components will arise, even if [perhaps] slightly exaggerated.

X2. The patina on his watches that I've seen through the years varies a lot, and a lot of the cases have been polished, but not all the listings say the cases are unpolished either. So what's the issue? Until I see or hear proof about real problems, I would treat this seller as I do every other one: be careful and do my homework. When you Google him and search for reviews the overwhelming majority are glowing. Criticism through rumor is just not fair.

[southtexas]

Does anyone know the story behind him being banned at the "other" forum?

[Oyster99]

Hello, newb here. May i ask a maybe dumb question?
Why does the seller remain unnamed in this thread?
For privacy reasons or not? A pm with information about this would be appreciated.:)

[polarinda]

So...anyone knows for sure how to tell a natural patina from sped up ones? That was the original question, really.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Oyster99

Hello, newb here. May i ask a maybe dumb question?
Why does the seller remain unnamed in this thread?
For privacy reasons or not? A pm with information about this would be appreciated.:)

Because none of it is first hand info just speculation in this thread.

As pointed out in some of the posts , the odds of the numerous offerings combined qualities in so many pieces in older watches are quite slim and hard to be believed.

Of course anything is possible but doubt is present in several members.

[LunetteVerde]

Harry Potter Mini Series 😬


♛lunetteverde@Instagram♛

[MitchSteel]

OY VEY!!!!

[nycpassat]

Originally Posted by southtexas

Does anyone know the story behind him being banned at the "other" forum?

He repeatedly wasn't following the rules on how his photos and description should be listed.

[anothernewphone]

I have ran into this seller's offerings quite often when searching for a 16800. I would love a birth-year Sub Date, but it's just looking too sketchy out there for me lately.

[omitohud]

Originally Posted by nycpassat

He repeatedly wasn't following the rules on how his photos and description should be listed.

But not because of the authenticity of his watches then. Hm the saga continues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cruvon]

I just happened to see this thread and some comments about I think seller nbtimes referred to here. The only reason he is on the vintage dealer list in the sticky above is because members here have had good purchase experiences with him till the last time we knew. If someone here could please provide some concrete examples and examples of bad experiences with him which no one has done to date, I will be happy to take him off the list as have taken off a few previously reputable sellers in the past who had questionable business practices. Afterall the list is to help us members here and make sure any dodgy sellers are weeded out. At the same time, we need to make sure the accusations against the seller are valid and give him a chance to respond.

Would be great if seller nbtimes comes on here and defends himself and answers the questions being asked here. I know some of the sellers on the list would go out of their way and defend their wares on threads like these where questions are asked and no reason why nbtimes should not come here and reply to these accusations. Failing that, I will have to take him off that thread since the last thing we want is a seller who doesn't share his side of the story to protect his clients investments!

[toph]

Originally Posted by CharlieMae

This is an old topic and seems to get revived every few years.

Seller is from Hong Kong and everyone knows that the patina has been altered and the cases have been refinished.

Once you know that, you can then decide to pay the premium or pass.

Most experienced buyers pass, but he's still around so he must be be selling them to someone..

Exactly. I remember having this exact conversation with people years ago

[CharlieMae]

This is an impossible accusation to prove. Here in the US, we have trials all the time with circumstantial evidence and people get convicted frequently.

How would it be possible to prove that a dial has had the lume color altered? I am asking the community. In my opinion, the only way would be to have photographic evidence of the dial BEFORE the lume was tinted and then show the exact dial AFTER. Since none of us have such proof then we cannot prove the lume was tinted. We CAN, however, suspect that the dials have been altered due to the frequency of very similar colored dials and the fact that the color is very unusual to begin with.

The same argument holds true with the cases. Unless we have before and after's we can't prove it. But, I can tell you that after wearing my watch for a week it has more surface scuffs and swirls than the 40 year old cases he puts up for sale as original and unpolished.

This is not a case of definitive proof, it is a case based on circumstantial evidence, percentages of real life watches available with these types of attributes and common sense.

I have my own opinions and others have theirs. I am not here to change anyones opinions, just to voice my own and how and why I came to the conclusions I did.

[bondtoys]

I took the time to brows thru some of his recent sale ads:

Most of the pics of Sports models have been deleted.
When you are reading his descriptions, he's once referring to "ALL original and never been retouched" with the dial.

So the bigger question is: If a dial is NOT original and NOT untouched - must that be disclosed or not on TRF? What are the rules?
So far I assumed that anything like that MUST be mentioned and disclosed.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

I took the time to brows thru some of his recent sale ads:

Most of the pics of Sports models have been deleted.
When you are reading his descriptions, he's once referring to "ALL original and never been retouched" with the dial.

So the bigger question is: If a dial is NOT original and NOT untouched - must that be disclosed or not on TRF? What are the rules?
So far I assumed that anything like that MUST be mentioned and disclosed.

Yes, it must be mentioned and disclosed.

[anirudh.412]

Even though I don't post here much, I thought I ought to give my opinion. I have met the seller in question a few times. Always professional, always willing to sit and chat about watches in general. He even bought back one of the watches he sold me; at quite a reasonable price too.

As others have mentioned this earlier, his pictures make the patina look darker. Sure, the cases on some of the watches are obviously polished, but laser welding? Artificially aged lume?

Unless proven guilty, it's better not to accuse someone, even though you might decide not to buy from him

[cdweller]

I don't know if this will add much to the discussion, but I purchased my 1665 from nbTimes around a year ago, and was very happy with the purchase/experience. I tried to do my due diligence before buying, which included speaking to some of the more senior members of the forum (who I do not feel comfortable naming, as all of our conversations took place via PM). All of the members I spoke with were able to recommend nbTimes; both as a seller AND a buyer. I am not trying to add fuel to a fire, but I thought my personal experience may be helpful with the discussion.

Here are some pics of my watch taken today, with no filter…








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[NukeMan]

That is one sweet looking watch, congratulations!!

[zederhoff]

What a beauty :-)

[Fan rolex]

And I have purchase this watch with Nb time many year agos which it was very kind of him ,he has send my watch to change some of the parts at RSC and he keep fallow to make it done to send to me ,on time and i very enjoy how NBTIMES ben have teach me alots all about the vintage , and. Get more experience from him since last time , I still enjoy it very much
And look on my IG so many people love and like this watch more than any watch that i post there

And also I get this along when he send me back with the watch

I have learn a lots from him and I can tell he very direct person which I never forget him

[Fan rolex]

And this one full set from ben
Also I don't thinks I had problems for buying from himat all
Just only you have to learn and serch a lots on the watch that you going to buy
The start tread is a newbie he may doesn't serch well and make so many question to other

[springer]

[QUOTE=cruvon;5636018]I just happened to see this thread and some comments about I think seller nbtimes referred to here. The only reason he is on the vintage dealer list in the sticky above is because members here have had good purchase experiences with him till the last time we knew. If someone here could please provide some concrete examples and examples of bad experiences with him which no one has done to date, I will be happy to take him off the list as have taken off a few previously reputable sellers in the past who had questionable business practices. Afterall the list is to help us members here and make sure any dodgy sellers are weeded out. At the same time, we need to make sure the accusations against the seller are valid and give him a chance to respond.

Would be great if seller nbtimes comes on here and defends himself and answers the questions being asked here. I know some of the sellers on the list would go out of their way and defend their wares on threads like these where questions are asked and no reason why nbtimes should not come here and reply to these accusations. Failing that, I will have to take him off that thread since the last thing we want is a seller who doesn't share his side of the story to protect his clients investments![/QUOTE

How about removing Steve Mulholland from the list. Damn Cru, that's comical that he is listed as a trusted seller. Contact a mod and have it removed before he is back to his old tricks again after the time is served.

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by springer

[QUOTE=cruvon;5636018]I just happened to see this thread and some comments about I think seller nbtimes referred to here. The only reason he is on the vintage dealer list in the sticky above is because members here have had good purchase experiences with him till the last time we knew. If someone here could please provide some concrete examples and examples of bad experiences with him which no one has done to date, I will be happy to take him off the list as have taken off a few previously reputable sellers in the past who had questionable business practices. Afterall the list is to help us members here and make sure any dodgy sellers are weeded out. At the same time, we need to make sure the accusations against the seller are valid and give him a chance to respond.

Would be great if seller nbtimes comes on here and defends himself and answers the questions being asked here. I know some of the sellers on the list would go out of their way and defend their wares on threads like these where questions are asked and no reason why nbtimes should not come here and reply to these accusations. Failing that, I will have to take him off that thread since the last thing we want is a seller who doesn't share his side of the story to protect his clients investments![/QUOTE

How about removing Steve Mulholland from the list. Damn Cru, that's comical that he is listed as a trusted seller. Contact a mod and have it removed before he is back to his old tricks again after the time is served.

Mate, think you've not been following the thread, he's been removed long ago!