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Old 17 January 2021, 01:18 AM   #1
paneristinewb
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P.9010 movement has been updated for 2020

In an interesting turn of events, it seems as though Panerai quietly updated their P.9010 movement for 2020 onwards. I recently purchased a PAM1313, which I am totally in love with. Having owned a PAM312 before, I knew my way around Panerai watches quite well. Upon receiving my new timepiece, I was quite surprised to notice that I was unable to stop the seconds hand for accurate time adjustment. I searched various YouTube videos and saw demonstrations of the seconds hacking when the crown was fully pulled out. Being a new piece, I sent it in to the Dallas service center in order to have it examined and fully expecting it to be a manufactures defect and have them correct the issue. Interestingly, and somewhat disconcertingly, it seems as though the movement has been changed and seconds are no longer hacking in this new P.9010 movement. Although not a big deal given the 72 hour power reserve, it is quite a pain in the butt and I cannot for the life of me think of what advantage removing this feature could’ve afforded in the manufacture of the movement. Please see attached email from the Panerai center for those interested.




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Old 17 January 2021, 03:06 AM   #2
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Hmmmm, interesting. Would love to see each version of the movement in a side-by-side disassembly video to see what changes were made.
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Old 17 January 2021, 03:32 AM   #3
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I was under the impression from reading earlier threads on this forum that panerai is using richemont movements in their watches now. I just purchased 1392. My understanding is that 2392 is the update of 1392 with richemont sourced movement that is not the same as 1392 despite having the same designation on panerai site.
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Old 17 January 2021, 04:01 AM   #4
The OG Beef
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Curious to see the new finish as well.


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Old 17 January 2021, 05:59 AM   #5
roger.bolton
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Indeed, this needs more detail.

How can a revision in features equal the same movement number!

Last edited by roger.bolton; 17 January 2021 at 06:00 AM.. Reason: extra info
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Old 17 January 2021, 09:29 AM   #6
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Knowing how Panerai tends to operate, I'll bet they've swapped it to an "upgraded" movement that is cheaper/easier to service/contains fewer jewels.
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Old 17 January 2021, 09:36 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by paneristinewb View Post
In an interesting turn of events, it seems as though Panerai quietly updated their P.9010 movement for 2020 onwards. I recently purchased a PAM1313, which I am totally in love with. Having owned a PAM312 before, I knew my way around Panerai watches quite well. Upon receiving my new timepiece, I was quite surprised to notice that I was unable to stop the seconds hand for accurate time adjustment. I searched various YouTube videos and saw demonstrations of the seconds hacking when the crown was fully pulled out. Being a new piece, I sent it in to the Dallas service center in order to have it examined and fully expecting it to be a manufactures defect and have them correct the issue. Interestingly, and somewhat disconcertingly, it seems as though the movement has been changed and seconds are no longer hacking in this new P.9010 movement. Although not a big deal given the 72 hour power reserve, it is quite a pain in the butt and I cannot for the life of me think of what advantage removing this feature could’ve afforded in the manufacture of the movement. Please see attached email from the Panerai center for those interested.




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Knowing how Panerai tends to operate, I'll bet they've swapped it to an "upgraded" movement that is cheaper/easier to service/contains fewer jewels.
I agree with the above, any change like this is very likely for the worse.

I bought a first series PAM682 42mm diver back when they first came out--with transparent caseback and 9010 movement--and loved it.

when they, some time later, swapped the movement out for something worse and increased the prices for their "entry level" 42mm submersibles, I decided I was probably done with new panerai.

it's just too frustrating--when rolex and other brands are innovating movement technology at every opportunity, even in minor ways, for a brand like this to be moving in the opposite direction just seems to say they aren't interested in catering to a consumer that cares about this sort of thing.
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Old 17 January 2021, 09:42 AM   #8
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That’s a margin move for sure. My 1209 has the richmont movement I think (42mm as you said) but it hacks. The minute hand also jumps when you push crown back in, I think my cartier Santos did that too
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Old 17 January 2021, 09:42 AM   #9
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Knowing how Panerai tends to operate, I'll bet they've swapped it to an "upgraded" movement that is cheaper/easier to service/contains fewer jewels.
Well the finishing is definitely cost saving. Shame, I was quite taken with the 1314, but I didn’t really trust panerai to begin with. This didn’t help things.
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Old 17 January 2021, 10:14 AM   #10
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I just checked on my recently arrived 1118. Confirmed there is no hacking nor seconds reset in the movement. Solid case back so I can't compare movement finishing.

I still love the watch and remain a big fan of Panerai. However, this is disappointing news as I really enjoy that feature.

While I don't want to go down too pessimistic a rabbit hole on their motives, I'd be very interested to know exactly what was changed in the movement and why?
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Old 17 January 2021, 10:34 AM   #11
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Makes sense that it’s a cost cutting move, which probably also explains the lack of display case back. The P.9010 is nice enough that it really should be displayed. But the email stated that the finishing has changed to a sandblasted one, so maybe they thought it wouldn’t be a pretty to show. Really a shame that a reputed watch maker (and at this price point) would take measures to cut back on quality. I’m sorry, but the lack of hacking seconds is really inexcusable - that’s present in even the most basic of movements.


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Old 17 January 2021, 10:41 AM   #12
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I just checked on my recently arrived 1118. Confirmed there is no hacking nor seconds reset in the movement. Solid case back so I can't compare movement finishing.

I still love the watch and remain a big fan of Panerai. However, this is disappointing news as I really enjoy that feature.

While I don't want to go down too pessimistic a rabbit hole on their motives, I'd be very interested to know exactly what was changed in the movement and why?
That is advertised as a P9010 for the Pam 1118. If it doesn’t have a P9010 then it is bait and switch and a absolute dealbreaker. No way at that price point should a movement not have a hacking second. Quite frankly, I would demand my money back for any new watch with a demoted movement (and not advertised it was changed) without hacking seconds. This is not a minor change done to any movement unless the entire movement has been reworked to eliminate this feature. How can the movement still be labeled a P.9010 at this point??
This news will be a nuclear explosion in the watch world once it gets reported if it is to be true.

Directly from the Panerai web site as of 01/16/2021:
https://www.panerai.com/us/en/know-h...ts/p-9010.html

The automatic P.9010 calibre, entirely developed and created in the Panerai Manufacture in Neuchâtel, has central hour and minute hands, the small seconds dial at 9 o’clock and the date at 3 o’clock. The energy necessary to accumulate a power reserve of three days – the basic standard for Panerai in-house movements – is stored in two spring barrels whose springs are wound by an oscillating weight operating in both directions. Consisting of 200 components including 31 jewels, the calibre has a diameter of 13¾ lignes and it is 6 mm thick. The balance, fixed by a bridge with twin supports, oscillates at a frequency of 28,800 vibrations per hour (4 Hz). It is associated with the device which stops it as soon as the winding crown is pulled out, enabling the watch to be perfectly synchronised with a reference signal. In the P.9010 calibre the hours can be conveniently adjusted without interfering with the movement of the minute hand, thanks to the device which directly moves only the relative hand in jumps of one hour forward or backwards. This function is very useful when changing time zones or moving between summer time and winter time, and conveniently the adjustment of the hour hand is automatically connected to the date indicator.

At the 46 second mark in the video in the link provided shows the crown pulled and the hacking second enabled.

This is what we call a ”smoking gun” in my companies legal dept.
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Old 17 January 2021, 01:29 PM   #13
paneristinewb
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Completely agree. Which is exactly why I sent my watch in to the Panerai service center to begin with. Unfortunately, I am not sure if there’s much that can be done about if. All they would need to say is that “the website isn’t updated”. Rolling my Eyes!!!


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Old 17 January 2021, 02:15 PM   #14
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Disappointing. As a newbie to the brand, albeit with a 16 yo watch, I have been enjoying looking at the innovative materials used on some of the newer pieces. But it would really bother me if I felt they were cutting corners and on a backward trajectory in movements.
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Old 17 January 2021, 03:27 PM   #15
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I have a deposit for a 1119. Seriously disappointing
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Old 17 January 2021, 04:58 PM   #16
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Old 17 January 2021, 09:46 PM   #17
roger.bolton
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I just checked my 1661, warranty card marked Aug 2020 and it hacks.
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Old 17 January 2021, 10:19 PM   #18
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Maybe they put a cheaper movement in those models with solid back case? Still remember the Brooklyn Bridge.
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Old 17 January 2021, 10:35 PM   #19
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If they really did this, it should no longer be called the p9010 movement. How confusing going forward.

Well it has the p9010 movement but I don’t know which version it is, hacking. Or non-hacking.

I hope they don’t make these changes to hacking watches that come in for service.
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Old 17 January 2021, 10:54 PM   #20
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Completely agree. Which is exactly why I sent my watch in to the Panerai service center to begin with. Unfortunately, I am not sure if there’s much that can be done about if. All they would need to say is that “the website isn’t updated”. Rolling my Eyes!!!


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I would contact them again and say you want the movement that was advertised or your money back. This is false advertising at the very least by keeping the same 9010 designation. That movement change (lets call it p.9010B) will make that specific movement toxic and separate it from the original movement dramatically. Contact where you purchased it from as well.


This is no different than buying a new Ford Raptor 4x4 and finding out Ford removed the 4x4 transmission, didn’t disclose the change and is still calling it a Raptor 4x4. Now you have a two wheel drive Raptor and last year models had a 4x4. How much resale value or desirability do you think your new truck will have but most important lacks a feature you need and paid for.
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Old 18 January 2021, 12:29 AM   #21
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I have a brand new 1313. When the crown is fully pulled out, the seconds hand stops. It does not reset to zero, but it stops.
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Old 18 January 2021, 12:38 AM   #22
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I have a brand new 1313. When the crown is fully pulled out, the seconds hand stops. It does not reset to zero, but it stops.
yes, this is the hacking second function. when the second reset to zero, its called the second reset function(like on the pam 524).
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Old 18 January 2021, 12:39 AM   #23
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I just checked on my recently arrived 1118. Confirmed there is no hacking nor seconds reset in the movement. Solid case back so I can't compare movement finishing.
Thanks for the heads up, still waiting on the 1118 here. i love the hack seconds feature of the PAM01033 GMT with 9011 movement. Would be interesting to see the movement within the 1117 / 1118 / 1119. Hopefully once a few reviewers get theirs they will open the case to show us what's inside.

Again, would love to see a video of the movement being taken apart. This would do a lot to dispel any rumors / speculation while also showcasing why this change was made. i do agree the movement must have a new designation (call it 9010b or some such).
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Old 18 January 2021, 12:41 AM   #24
paneristinewb
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I have a brand new 1313. When the crown is fully pulled out, the seconds hand stops. It does not reset to zero, but it stops.

It sounds like it is variable abs they flipped it mid-cycle. I have a 10/2020 purchase.


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Old 18 January 2021, 01:09 AM   #25
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https://www.watchprosite.com/page-wf...open_bLoB_s-0/
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Old 18 January 2021, 01:34 AM   #26
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If it helps, the P9010 is a upgrade from the P9000 movement. Here is its disassembly of the P9000 and you can see the lever that stops the movement halfway down the page under the “gear train”. Pretty standard feature. I have a lot of experience with the P.9010 and movements in general. The P.9010 is the best in-house movement Panerai has ever produce to date with its design and features. There is no reason this hacking lever would ever be removed other than a completely different movement is being used. The notification with the finishing being changed sends up flags it might be a Frankenstein piece together movement using outsourced parts to create a P9010 like clone. Absolutely bizarre unless this might be a temporary fix to a Covid parts shortage. The P.9010 has been out awhile now and is well established and reliable so there is no major deficiencies that needs addressed.

The P9010 is used in the top flagship Panerai models. You can tinker with the entry level watches but this would be Panerai voluntarily committing brand suicide.

https://watchesbysjx.com/2014/09/exp...-together.html

This will give you some info between the P.9000 and P.9010.
https://monochrome-watches.com/intro...ays-automatic/
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Old 18 January 2021, 01:57 AM   #27
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Agree 100% with your assessment. If you were in this position, what would you do?


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Old 18 January 2021, 02:13 AM   #28
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Agree 100% with your assessment. If you were in this position, what would you do?


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I own a Carbotech Pam 661 with the original P9010. It is a incredible watch and movement combo. That said, I would have not purchased it if it didn’t have a hacking movement. I would certainly contact Panerai and tell them you absolutely want the proper P.9010 movement that is advertised and was developed with a hack seconds. Don’t let anyone tell you this is just a minor tweak or insignificant modification. This kind of change would have to have its movement redesignated with a different name or number. There is no getting around this at the very least.

Then I would contact your original dealer where you purchased the watch and tell them the same. I personally would go to whatever leverage I had to do to either get a original P.9010 movement or my money back including the fraud/purchase protection of my CC. No way would I ever own any movement without a hacking second. The movement is so good it is capable for under 2 seconds a day. I am getting around +1 a day with my P9010. Without a hacking movement you could have to live with a + or - 30 second out of sync movement. The only way you can synchronize a non hacking movement is letting the mainspring/power reserve go dead and then try to start the movement again near the correct atomic time. Once you do that, you probably will have to adjust the minute hand to a marker when the second hand hits zero. This would be a huge PIA with a $400 watch and absurd for any automatic movement over $1500.00.
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Old 18 January 2021, 03:11 AM   #29
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on the panerai official website, it still said the p.9010 has the hacking second function.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg see fu.jpg (202.5 KB, 484 views)
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Old 18 January 2021, 03:59 AM   #30
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I have to admit, after thinking it over, if they've changed the movement without notification, it's leaving me feeling a bit salty.

I've gone ahead and emailed both the boutique SA as well as Panerai concierge politely asking about this. I will update everyone once I get a response.
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