Are some sellers misleading buyers ?

[ronricks]

Originally Posted by peterpl

The GMT hand also has scratches on it. Looks like all the hands are marked in some way.

Not sure how that was left out of the listing.

[Tridor]

Originally Posted by Sunny Arizona

Buyer beware includes everyone. I have seen long term sellers work on the fringes of descriptions.

Preach!

[Londonboy]

This comment isn't aimed at any "trusted seller" in particular. I've noticed over the years that some TS give as little information as possible on some watches, just enough in my opinion to get a sale to an uninitiated buyer. Some TS never mention that the watch has been polished and every time I've inquired (when it isn't stated in the listing) the answer has always been - yes. They knew it had been polished but chose to not mention it, hoping that an uninitiated buyer would come along and not ask the question. Plus, in these instances of being somewhat economic with known facts there are never close up pics of the lugs included in the listing, which of course helps them cover up that fact, especially to the uninitiated buyer. Of course when the watch they're listing is mint, or BNIB there's copious amounts of lug pics from every conceivable angle, and unpolished is written clearly in the description. Trusted seller is NOT an official Rolex Forum term, for good reason. If you're buying a used watch imho ask all the questions that you can because the descriptions on used watches are only as good as the seller wants them to be. Some TS clearly state unpolished/polished in their used watch ads, their listing words are thorough and honest, I personally go to those guys first. YMMV

[Al1969]

So what happened to the link? Any chance we can repost it so everyone
can know what you guys are talking about?

[rushca01]

Originally Posted by Londonboy

This comment isn't aimed at any "trusted seller" in particular. I've noticed over the years that some TS give as little information as possible on some watches, just enough in my opinion to get a sale to an uninitiated buyer. Some TS never mention that the watch has been polished and every time I've inquired (when it isn't stated in the listing) the answer has always been - yes. They knew it had been polished but chose to not mention it, hoping that an uninitiated buyer would come along and not ask the question. Plus, in these instances of being somewhat economic with known facts there are never close up pics of the lugs included in the listing, which of course helps them cover up that fact, especially to the uninitiated buyer. Of course when the watch they're listing is mint, or BNIB there's copious amounts of lug pics from every conceivable angle, and unpolished is written clearly in the description. Trusted seller is NOT an official Rolex Forum term, for good reason. If you're buying a used watch imho ask all the questions that you can because the descriptions on used watches are only as good as the seller wants them to be. Some TS clearly state unpolished/polished in their used watch ads, their listing words are thorough and honest, I personally go to those guys first. YMMV

Very well stated! I have started to weed out my "trusted seller list". I prefer a private seller not in the biz most of the time.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by Londonboy

This comment isn't aimed at any "trusted seller" in particular. I've noticed over the years that some TS give as little information as possible on some watches, just enough in my opinion to get a sale to an uninitiated buyer. Some TS never mention that the watch has been polished and every time I've inquired (when it isn't stated in the listing) the answer has always been - yes. They knew it had been polished but chose to not mention it, hoping that an uninitiated buyer would come along and not ask the question. Plus, in these instances of being somewhat economic with known facts there are never close up pics of the lugs included in the listing, which of course helps them cover up that fact, especially to the uninitiated buyer. Of course when the watch they're listing is mint, or BNIB there's copious amounts of lug pics from every conceivable angle, and unpolished is written clearly in the description. Trusted seller is NOT an official Rolex Forum term, for good reason. If you're buying a used watch imho ask all the questions that you can because the descriptions on used watches are only as good as the seller wants them to be. Some TS clearly state unpolished/polished in their used watch ads, their listing words are thorough and honest, I personally go to those guys first. YMMV

BNIB= Brand New In Box. The watch is new and never on a wrist, so a used polished piece doesn't apply to this designation.

[Andad]

I see no issue with a TRF member posting a link to a for sale item and asking for comments or opinions?

Just has I have no issue with opinions on this post.

It's up to the seller to justify the description.

[Runnin' Rebel]

Originally Posted by Al1969

So what happened to the link? Any chance we can repost it so everyone
can know what you guys are talking about?

No. Evidently it was in poor taste, out of line, a 9 year member will be offended, one who posts about 45 times a year. Upset a few members that a clarification question was asked on an ambiguous listed description of a sweet watch that you never see much. I had this watch, it's special

Asking questions to clear up confusion is my way of rolling. Bad move I guess.
Asking questions and trying to not have problems if bought with not only me but another buyer if I didn't buy it, you know helping people like within the spirit of the forum.

Go to sell forum and search GMT Serti. Becareful we have snow flakes falling tonight

[jeffgo888]

My 2 cents only:
I have bought from trusted sellers here, and yes, you ALWAYS have to do due diligence
and so does the seller. It's 2 way street. I do not think any trusted seller aims to mislead on purpose, at any time. Mistakes happen, we are human. So if errors, then to me, it's how the process is resolved. I have bought from David, Takuya Thanh, Sohails, all have been quite super experiences so far, but there was plenty of communications going back and forth before the deal is finalized.

[Al1969]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel

No. Evidently it was in poor taste, out of line, a 9 year member will be offended, one who posts about 45 times a year. Upset a few members that a clarification question was asked on an ambiguous listed description of a sweet watch that you never see much. I had this watch, it's special

Asking questions to clear up confusion is my way of rolling. Bad move I guess.
Asking questions and trying to not have problems if bought with not only me but another buyer if I didn't buy it, you know helping people like within the spirit of the forum.

Go to sell forum and search GMT Serti. Becareful we have snow flakes falling tonight

Personally, I don't see the issue with posting links to watches sold on this forum.
It gives the less experienced buyers a chance to have feedback from more 'seasoned' members on a potential purchase.

Unless a seller has something to 'hide' there shouldn't be any objections to it. Just my opinion.

Could it be because "Buyers are the enemy" ?

[NKflyer]

My ...

Yes, the seller was vague in the text description of condition. But with many sellers being very casual about the grading system and their own descriptions, it can feel like martyring yourself to "talk down" your watch and sound negative by itemizing every last scratch and nick. However, his photos were excellent which, in my opinion, is of much higher value for assessing condition and leaves no doubt in the eyes of a buyer. Good photos are king and this ad has them in spades.

I do think think that the bent hand should have been specifically mentioned by the seller and there's no way this could have been overlooked by whoever did the photo cropping.

Also, there is something mysterious with the dial. Even though the serti dials don't have lume, they still labeled them "swiss" and later "swiss made" just like the luminova/superluminova dials of this era, not T<25.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Runnin' Rebel

No. Evidently it was in poor taste, out of line, a 9 year member will be offended, one who posts about 45 times a year. Upset a few members that a clarification question was asked on an ambiguous listed description of a sweet watch that you never see much. I had this watch, it's special

Asking questions to clear up confusion is my way of rolling. Bad move I guess.
Asking questions and trying to not have problems if bought with not only me but another buyer if I didn't buy it, you know helping people like within the spirit of the forum.

Go to sell forum and search GMT Serti. Becareful we have snow flakes falling tonight

While I understand that a buyer should evaluate the pictures for themselves and ask their own questions prior to purchasing I think that this advert should be rewritten.
It's not as if it's the sellers first for sale post - it's all he does.

[Al1969]

Originally Posted by ronricks

Issues for me while some might argue the case is 'great' the GMT hand needs to be replaced and the crown is polished on the clasp which points to bad polishing. I don't think this thread was started in malice or to call someone out.

I seen that. The crown is almost NON-EXISTENT. Here the description.

"Bracelet: comes on a original SS/18K oyster bracelet' in good cond, "

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by watchmework

It's buyer beware on TRF unless you go with one of the top trusted sellers in my mind.

Even then.

[TK-710]

It seems this term "Trusted Seller" is either misused or misunderstood. Not everyone selling watches on TRF is a trusted seller. Nor is there a set standard to qualify for the title. The watch that this thread was originally started about may not match up with the description but at least it seems the pictures are of the actual watch. In the past there were "TS" using stock photos. Nothing trustworthy about that.

[Mick P]

Chaps

I have a golden when buying a Rolex - if you cannot see it in the flesh, don't buy it because it ain't worth the risk or the hassle.

I know that is easier to say living in the UK where distance is less of a problem but seeing and touching something before you take the plunge is a time honoured process that works.

Regards

Mick

[Jocke]

Originally Posted by texex91

Agree. If you don't like it don't buy it. Pictures are there...

Going to start a whole thread to bash a member who has been here from 2009.

Lame.

The seller only post for sale posts so I guess he is only here to sell, not to make friends, just pick up their money.
So IMHO a long membership is not worth so much always. The description of the watch is horrible even if the pics
are good and shows the condition. But as you say it's just to move on but I think we should put the spotlight
on sellers like this one so they raise the bar for their ad's.

[sager]

"Are some sellers misleading buyers?"

Yes!

[Chiboy]

Edit: I found it.

[RoyalOac]

I really don't want to bring this up but a very trustworthy TRF seller, big time guy with enormous credibility here... I purchased 3 watches with him in the past and all three came in worse condition than advertised and pictured. I examined the photos closely and being in the graphic arts field I can tell the images were photoshopped using the healing tool, along with other photo manipulation. The latest had a pretty clear scratch on the bezel at 9 oclock even a Nokia phone would be able to capture, along with othe random scratches but in the photos it was a mirror finish almost BNIB-like. I don't know how ethical this is and if it's in my place to divulge who this dealer is. I saved all the photos originally posted by said seller as well.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by NKflyer

My ...

Yes, the seller was vague in the text description of condition. But with many sellers being very casual about the grading system and their own descriptions, it can feel like martyring yourself to "talk down" your watch and sound negative by itemizing every last scratch and nick. However, his photos were excellent which, in my opinion, is of much higher value for assessing condition and leaves no doubt in the eyes of a buyer. Good photos are king and this ad has them in spades.

I do think think that the bent hand should have been specifically mentioned by the seller and there's no way this could have been overlooked by whoever did the photo cropping.

Also, there is something mysterious with the dial. Even though the serti dials don't have lume, they still labeled them "swiss" and later "swiss made" just like the luminova/superluminova dials of this era, not T<25.

I've seen the T<25 on these dials, but don't recall if they were P ser#. Do you think this might be a franken?

As for the advert, the pictures portray the condition of the watch far better than any words could. This is clearly a 17 year old watch that was worn hard. A buyer would need to be half in the bag to assign any monetary value to the words after viewing the pictures. While the description isn't to my liking, the pictures are totally honest.

[Oceanlover914]

You could have copied the description and used it in your post without calling out this particular seller.


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[skkali168]

What pic, I don’t see any lol


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[ras47]

Something I see happening now is a seller listing the exact same watch as two different listings. One gets marked as sold. He's trying to convince potential buyers that his price is the going rate.

Pictures show the exact same watch. The time on the watch is the same to the second. The box pictured in both listings has identical scuffs and smudges. It's obviously the same watch. Fake sales to support prices is just plain dishonest.

[joli160]

Originally Posted by Oceanlover914

You could have copied the description and used it in your post without calling out this particular seller.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What is wrong with calling out a seller who uses a poor description ?
If you are a seller you should play fair and disclose the flaws or risk getting criticised.

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by RoyalOac

I really don't want to bring this up but a very trustworthy TRF seller, big time guy with enormous credibility here... I purchased 3 watches with him in the past and all three came in worse condition than advertised and pictured. I examined the photos closely and being in the graphic arts field I can tell the images were photoshopped using the healing tool, along with other photo manipulation. The latest had a pretty clear scratch on the bezel at 9 oclock even a Nokia phone would be able to capture, along with othe random scratches but in the photos it was a mirror finish almost BNIB-like. I don't know how ethical this is and if it's in my place to divulge who this dealer is. I saved all the photos originally posted by said seller as well.

Why did you continue to buy from this (unidentified) seller not just a second, but a third time if each of the watches arrived in worse condition than advertised. That simply makes no sense.

[Jocke]

Originally Posted by joli160

What is wrong with calling out a seller who uses a poor description ?
If you are a seller you should play fair and disclose the flaws or risk getting criticised.

Yes and the seller have been here since 2009 and should know better than this.

[Jocke]

The only good thing with the watch is that it can shows India time with the 24 hour hand.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by ras47

Something I see happening now is a seller listing the exact same watch as two different listings. One gets marked as sold. He's trying to convince potential buyers that his price is the going rate.

Pictures show the exact same watch. The time on the watch is the same to the second. The box pictured in both listings has identical scuffs and smudges. It's obviously the same watch. Fake sales to support prices is just plain dishonest.

The forum rules require the seller to post that the transaction is completed. Some choose to post in the original thread, others post a new thread.

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by ras47

Something I see happening now is a seller listing the exact same watch as two different listings. One gets marked as sold. He's trying to convince potential buyers that his price is the going rate.

Pictures show the exact same watch. The time on the watch is the same to the second. The box pictured in both listings has identical scuffs and smudges. It's obviously the same watch. Fake sales to support prices is just plain dishonest.

I have seen this too, and thought it was a second ad for the same watch due to being bumped too many times. Is this not the case?