How hard is it to get 15407st?

[L.W.C]

Originally Posted by YoungMoneyAssassin

I’m a huge fan of your channel, LWC! Thank you for the content.


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My pleasure buddy

[L.W.C]

Originally Posted by Exceptional

I 100% agree and we are definitely hard done by. I have found how LWC manages to obtain watches quite skeptical, excludes much of the valuable detail. I have asked before and never got a response. Maybe having a YouTube channel supports your a legitimate collector?

Even if we do all of those things he claims he did, we still don't get offered anything so theres clearly more to it. I unfollowed LWC a while back because I don't buy his story, primarily a lack of authenticity in the way he comes across e.g. clickbait titles such as buying $100k watch, but yet he lives in London and paid retail.

Not sure where under a “watch review” is one obliged to mention how he sourced the watch and how much he paid for it etc a review is to give the viewer a feel of what to expect when buying a watch.

I didn’t obtain a single watch through my channel. I always purchase using my real name and rapport built with authorised dealers. Who they sell to and how is not my area of expertise I’m afraid.

You’re entitled to your opinion however, and it is absolutely fine with me that you’ve unfollowed.

FYI the title (which reflected the market value) has been changed since, it’s now “Buying a £50,000 Audemars Piguet” cause I’ve realised that if you search Audemars Piguet it doesn’t actually show up.

Stay safe my fellow watch enthusiast, and I hope you get the 15407 soon.

[Exceptional]

Originally Posted by L.W.C

Not sure where under a “watch review” is one obliged to mention how he sourced the watch and how much he paid for it etc a review is to give the viewer a feel of what to expect when buying a watch.

I didn’t obtain a single watch through my channel. I always purchase using my real name and rapport built with authorised dealers. Who they sell to and how is not my area of expertise I’m afraid.

You’re entitled to your opinion however, and it is absolutely fine with me that you’ve unfollowed.

FYI the title (which reflected the market value) has been changed since, it’s now “Buying a £50,000 Audemars Piguet” cause I’ve realised that if you search Audemars Piguet it doesn’t actually show up.

Stay safe my fellow watch enthusiast, and I hope you get the 15407 soon.

Your latest video has nothing to do with the review of a watch, but how you went out of your way to obtain it. If you re-read my comment, I never said under a "watch review". I also stated I did ask but you never say, which is perfectly fine but this is why I am skeptical about these methods because as others have pointed out, they clearly don't work for all of us. Again this isn't your problem, but I feel the message you are trying to get across is some what insincere because it doesn't add up.

You make a point about not buying PM or paying over MSRP, but for all we know you have been buying from the grey market this entire time because you obtain the hot pieces in relatively short periods of time with minimal purchase history (from what I have seen) - Your 3rd AP is a 15407. Most AD's would even tell you this is complete BS. May be you did pay $100k for it as your original title suggested?

In your latest video you gave thanks to those at the AD because you knew they would be watching, your channel has clearly come in handy then right? And you can still use your real name, but I know for a fact you mention your channel at every opportunity you get, why wouldn't you?

Now if you stuck to simply reviewing watches, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I am pleased that you have obtained all of the watches you wanted, whether retail or not, I can see a passion and drive there - just don't wind your viewers up with tales of your hardships of acquiring pieces

Cheers, you too!

[kaiserphoenix]

Originally Posted by L.W.C

I totally understand your frustration.. maybe it varies from country to country.

In 2018 when I went to the AP house in London and put my name down, the guy knew that I’ve only ever owned two APs (the 15400st in 2016 which is no longer in my collection and the jumbo which I picked up in 2018) I was frank telling him that it wasn’t bought from the U.K “cause you guys want me to buy watches I don’t like” and I never do that plus I only buy steel watches, and believe it or not he actually respected that and said that I’ll get on the list and it will be 4 years and he actually said “sometimes we pick names from the bottom of the list”

I’m not sure if I would’ve gotten it from London if I did wait for the 4 years but the itch kept bothering me and luckily I did something about it and was able to get it from a different continent. I believe there are others that their first watch from AP was the 15407st as well.

I hope you do get it soon man and maybe try a different strategy with the boutique (refuse to buy anything else until they add your name etc)

Good luck

Mate it doesn’t vary by country. The 15407 is hard everywhere and i live in London and tokyo. I’ve been to the AP house, i’ve been to Harrods and bought and have relationships, i’ve been to the boutique and have relationships and as Insaid i drop in for coffee, have good banter, and most importantly bought several watches. I keep a very close relationship.

Anyway i’m happy for you bro. Just abit frustrated at the inconsistencies of the AP policy because from what i’ve been told in quite frank terms by most AP employees is that you need to be a certain profile, which includes total spend and by the way if you actually SEE their internal CRM the “Net Spend” figure is a prominent data set. That’s why i’m just baffled as to how you managed it in 2020.

[L.W.C]

Originally Posted by Exceptional

Your latest video has nothing to do with the review of a watch, but how you went out of your way to obtain it. If you re-read my comment, I never said under a "watch review". I also stated I did ask but you never say, which is perfectly fine but this is why I am skeptical about these methods because as others have pointed out, they clearly don't work for all of us. Again this isn't your problem, but I feel the message you are trying to get across is some what insincere because it doesn't add up.

You make a point about not buying PM or paying over MSRP, but for all we know you have been buying from the grey market this entire time because you obtain the hot pieces in relatively short periods of time with minimal purchase history (from what I have seen) - Your 3rd AP is a 15407. Most AD's would even tell you this is complete BS. May be you did pay $100k for it as your original title suggested?

In your latest video you gave thanks to those at the AD because you knew they would be watching, your channel has clearly come in handy then right? And you can still use your real name, but I know for a fact you mention your channel at every opportunity you get, why wouldn't you?

Now if you stuck to simply reviewing watches, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I am pleased that you have obtained all of the watches you wanted, whether retail or not, I can see a passion and drive there - just don't wind your viewers up with tales of your hardships of acquiring pieces

Cheers, you too!

If you channel this energy and effort into any direction I am sure you will be able get whatever it is that you want.

To mention a channel is one thing, and to obtain a timepiece through it is another. I guess this shows your lack of knowledge in how ADs work. I mean, I hope it will enable me to get all the watches I desire, but this is wishful thinking I’m afraid.

As for the grey market, perhaps I should review my receipts to gain my (un)followers confidence in how much of my money I am spending.

Look, in all seriousness I know how frustrating it can be to wait forever to buy a watch. I’ve been there (& I am still there re some watches). So I sincerely wish you a less skeptical and more delightful journey in obtaining whatever it is that you want.

[L.W.C]

Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix

Mate it doesn’t vary by country. The 15407 is hard everywhere and i live in London and tokyo. I’ve been to the AP house, i’ve been to Harrods and bought and have relationships, i’ve been to the boutique and have relationships and as Insaid i drop in for coffee, have good banter, and most importantly bought several watches. I keep a very close relationship.

Anyway i’m happy for you bro. Just abit frustrated at the inconsistencies of the AP policy because from what i’ve been told in quite frank terms by most AP employees is that you need to be a certain profile, which includes total spend and by the way if you actually SEE their internal CRM the “Net Spend” figure is a prominent data set. That’s why i’m just baffled as to how you managed it in 2020.

I hear you man.. hope you get on a list sometime soon

[Exceptional]

Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix

Mate it doesn’t vary by country. The 15407 is hard everywhere and i live in London and tokyo. I’ve been to the AP house, i’ve been to Harrods and bought and have relationships, i’ve been to the boutique and have relationships and as Insaid i drop in for coffee, have good banter, and most importantly bought several watches. I keep a very close relationship.

Anyway i’m happy for you bro. Just abit frustrated at the inconsistencies of the AP policy because from what i’ve been told in quite frank terms by most AP employees is that you need to be a certain profile, which includes total spend and by the way if you actually SEE their internal CRM the “Net Spend” figure is a prominent data set. That’s why i’m just baffled as to how you managed it in 2020.

Exactly, well said! I love Tokyo and visit annually and they are the most upfront ADs.

Originally Posted by L.W.C

If you channel this energy and effort into any direction I am sure you will be able get whatever it is that you want.

To mention a channel is one thing, and to obtain a timepiece through it is another. I guess this shows your lack of knowledge in how ADs work. I mean, I hope it will enable me to get all the watches I desire, but this is wishful thinking I’m afraid.

As for the grey market, perhaps I should review my receipts to gain my (un)followers confidence in how much of my money I am spending. Or should I swear on a holy book? Or perhaps both..!

Look, in all seriousness I know how frustrating it can be to wait forever to buy a watch. I’ve been there (& I am still there re some watches). So I sincerely wish you a less skeptical and more delightful journey in obtaining whatever it is that you want.

Even this response shows just how flakey you really are, you don't appear very confident in backing your own story. So now you admit you do mention your channel to aid in rapport building with the AD, to show your a legitimate collector? Oh what a surprise, earlier you didn't even mention your channel. Your a relatively new collector, only been collecting a couple of years so your still making mistakes in the information you put out, although you think your being coy.

I will call your bluff and say post your receipts then (but we all know you won't), just be sure to cover up any bundled purchase entries.

Haha! Stop it with all the smoke and mirrors already, we see right through it. And it's cool, I obtain what I want without having to brown nose AD's for 6 months, whatsapping them and making special trips but again, I'll wait for you to deny this too.

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by L.W.C

If you channel this energy and effort into any direction I am sure you will be able get whatever it is that you want.

To mention a channel is one thing, and to obtain a timepiece through it is another. I guess this shows your lack of knowledge in how ADs work. I mean, I hope it will enable me to get all the watches I desire, but this is wishful thinking I’m afraid.

As for the grey market, perhaps I should review my receipts to gain my (un)followers confidence in how much of my money I am spending. Or should I swear on a holy book? Or perhaps both..!

Look, in all seriousness I know how frustrating it can be to wait forever to buy a watch. I’ve been there (& I am still there re some watches). So I sincerely wish you a less skeptical and more delightful journey in obtaining whatever it is that you want.

[SMD]

Its a very tough piece to get and anyone who says otherwise is blowing smoke up your a**. You need a purchase history, commitment to the brand and a lot of luck. Everything has to fall in to place and if you do get the call you better have the cash ready to roll. And anyone saying they got one as their first piece without a prior relationship is not telling the whole story. Sorry, given what I went through and who had to approve the sale to me, I do not believe that for a second.

[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by SMD

Its a very tough piece to get and anyone who says otherwise is blowing smoke up your a**. You need a purchase history, commitment to the brand and a lot of luck. Everything has to fall in to place and if you do get the call you better have the cash ready to roll. And anyone saying they got one as their first piece without a prior relationship is not telling the whole story. Sorry, given what I went through and who had to approve the sale to me, I do not believe that for a second.

Sounds like anytime someone complains about trying to get a Daytona we should now just say “have you tried getting a 15407???”.

[eiesh]

Originally Posted by SMD

Its a very tough piece to get and anyone who says otherwise is blowing smoke up your a**. You need a purchase history, commitment to the brand and a lot of luck. Everything has to fall in to place and if you do get the call you better have the cash ready to roll. And anyone saying they got one as their first piece without a prior relationship is not telling the whole story. Sorry, given what I went through and who had to approve the sale to me, I do not believe that for a second.

I understand if you don’t feel comfortable answering but did the approval come from the boutique director or Switzerland. Thanks


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[Eagleeye1]

From his video he seems to have acquired all the hottest Rolex pieces as well. He must be a genius talker with the authorized dealers or just making everything up to promote his channel.


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[maciej]

Originally Posted by eiesh

I understand if you don’t feel comfortable answering but did the approval come from the boutique director or Switzerland. Thanks


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Boutique manager, along with an approval committee that’s in place for high demand pieces.

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by maciej

Boutique manager, along with an approval committee that’s in place for high demand pieces.

"Approval Committee"?

I'm sorry, but the more I learn the more I sometimes get turned off by it all. We're talking about watches here. Not bodily organs for crying out loud.

I sense that one day in the not too distant future we're going to laugh at the absurdity of some of this. Or, there's going to be so few people left interested in AP and watches in general that a simple understanding of Economics 101 will easily foreshadow what's going to happen.

Then again, maybe in 5 years AP will only be making 25,000 watches a year and I'll have to provide them my DNA so they can run an analysis to see if I'm worthy enough to have their precious ceramic material placed upon my skin.

Unfortunately they make watches that sing to me and many others, so I'll probably be in line at the boutique trying to get them to take my DNA

[kaiserphoenix]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

"Approval Committee"?

I'm sorry, but the more I learn the more I sometimes get turned off by it all. We're talking about watches here. Not bodily organs for crying out loud.

I sense that one day in the not too distant future we're going to laugh at the absurdity of some of this. Or, there's going to be so few people left interested in AP and watches in general that a simple understanding of Economics 101 will easily foreshadow what's going to happen.

Then again, maybe in 5 years AP will only be making 25,000 watches a year and I'll have to provide them my DNA so they can run an analysis to see if I'm worthy enough to have their precious ceramic material placed upon my skin.

Unfortunately they make watches that sing to me and many others, so I'll probably be in line at the boutique trying to get them to take my DNA

Yeah but the issue with that (and i don’t even think your assertion is all that ridiculous even though i know it’s sort of tongue in cheek) is that if it’s DNA then which DNA will
be favourable? We will have our own mini discrimination issue for bloody watches which tbh is already happening, especially when boutique staff tell me “it’s not just net spend”. Then what the bloody hell is it?

[Collector2019]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

"Approval Committee"?

I'm sorry, but the more I learn the more I sometimes get turned off by it all. We're talking about watches here. Not bodily organs for crying out loud.

I sense that one day in the not too distant future we're going to laugh at the absurdity of some of this. Or, there's going to be so few people left interested in AP and watches in general that a simple understanding of Economics 101 will easily foreshadow what's going to happen.

Then again, maybe in 5 years AP will only be making 25,000 watches a year and I'll have to provide them my DNA so they can run an analysis to see if I'm worthy enough to have their precious ceramic material placed upon my skin.

Unfortunately they make watches that sing to me and many others, so I'll probably be in line at the boutique trying to get them to take my DNA

At least they are trying - try to get something out of patek.

Approval committee seems great governance mechanism to ensure fairness I hope it’s true and practiced


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[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by Collector2019

At least they are trying - try to get something out of patek.

Approval committee seems great governance mechanism to ensure fairness I hope it’s true and practiced


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I think this is exactly my issue - That it seems like an inconsistent mechanism and just kind of reeks of manufactured arrogance.

Several of these watches end up on the gray market. That is an indisputable fact.

I have no issue with the profiling and the demonstrated ability to spend. But ensuring fairness means being consistent and being certain every Perpetual, Skeleton, and Ceramic is going to people that spend, love the brand, or preferably both. For all the time spent profiling real customers, it seems elementary to be able to weed out the flippers or those operating in the gray market. But this isn’t happening.

Some of these watches still walk out the back door, feeding the cycle of frustration.

[eiesh]

Originally Posted by maciej

Boutique manager, along with an approval committee that’s in place for high demand pieces.

Thanks


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[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by Collector2019

At least they are trying - try to get something out of patek.

Approval committee seems great governance mechanism to ensure fairness I hope it’s true and practiced


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Agree. AP boutique staff are always gracious, if not almost apologetic, in trying to explain their dilemma and managing expectations.

The other brand, well, no comments is best.

[Collector2019]

Originally Posted by sgwatchguy

Agree. AP boutique staff are always gracious, if not almost apologetic, in trying to explain their dilemma and managing expectations.

The other brand, well, no comments is best.

Absolutely, my experience with them has been great and it’s very unlikely you read negative reviews about the sales persons attitude/ communication or anything of that sort mostly complaints about allocation and this is unsolvable you can’t please everyone.

Anyone on this thread would / will have 15407 on his list but with AP making max of 400 / 600 skeletonized timepieces across the board in all metals; can they satisfy the demand? no way, not even in a million years.

Most collectors on here think purchase history is over riding factor in getting an in demand piece. I think it helps a lot, but definitely not the most important thing, I think they look at loyalty, passion for the brand, characteristics of the person and if he fits the profile or not, sometimes even what do you do for living and who you associate with could be considered.


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[Collector2019]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

I think this is exactly my issue - That it seems like an inconsistent mechanism and just kind of reeks of manufactured arrogance.

Several of these watches end up on the gray market. That is an indisputable fact.

I have no issue with the profiling and the demonstrated ability to spend. But ensuring fairness means being consistent and being certain every Perpetual, Skeleton, and Ceramic is going to people that spend, love the brand, or preferably both. For all the time spent profiling real customers, it seems elementary to be able to weed out the flippers or those operating in the gray market. But this isn’t happening.

Some of these watches still walk out the back door, feeding the cycle of frustration.

I agree that seeing these pieces end up in the secondary market fairly quickly and sometimes stickered is awful, but as every process it has its own merits and shortfalls. Most likely anyone got the in high demand models went through rigorous process what they do with it after delivery is out of AP’s control, future action like being black listed etc I’m sure it’s practiced.

I doubt they let things go through the back door they are boutiques mostly and most of the hot pieces go to boutiques owned by AP, they don’t need to do that at all especially with full profit margins selling at retail and cutting off the middleman.


The question is how can AP satisfy the unhappy clients in the mid range, those who have got few watches, love the brand but not a vip status yet, I think they need to accommodate for their needs a bit more.


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[Reign]

I feel for the boutique staff - yes there are a few floating around on the grey market but that will happen with any high demand piece with manufactured quantities >400 in total.

Across the world, you have buckets of people coming into the store asking for the same 10 watches, which as a boutique if you're lucky will only get 1-2 per year (excluding AP Houses and global city boutiques). There is no fair or right way to get one and it is hardly prescriptive. If you don't spend that much, then you'll need a bit of luck; if you spend a lot then it gets easier.

I will say that it's not going to get easier to get one, they're due to release a few more variants of the 37mm which uses the same movement and another variant in 41mm. Given there's finite movement production at 600-800 p.a. (and far less this year), there's going to be more disappointment but people are going to have to live with it.

AP does their best to manage the soft aspects of the relationship via marketing events but ultimately the supply just can't match the demand - you have thousands of people in the world vying for the ~1,500 produced hot pieces p.a. (ceramic QPs, openwork and Jumbos, RD2, etc.). Just think about that in context to the amount of wealth in the world and the subset that can and are in line for them. Between 5-10 global cities you already have more than enough demand to suck up all of that and you still have the rest of the world to satisfy.

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by sgwatchguy

Agree. AP boutique staff are always gracious, if not almost apologetic, in trying to explain their dilemma and managing expectations.

The other brand, well, no comments is best.

I agree with you on this comment. For all of my frustration, so far, I certainly would never say anything bad about the AP staff I've come into contact with. It's been very limited, but also positive in every aspect. I applaud them for this because I honestly cannot imagine how difficult their job is.

I don't even try with Patek any more because it's a lost cause, and while there are a small handful of watches they make that I actually like, for a vast majority of them I would never even consider paying the egregious MSRP price.

[Dopeboy]

Originally Posted by Eagleeye1

From his video he seems to have acquired all the hottest Rolex pieces as well. He must be a genius talker with the authorized dealers or just making everything up to promote his channel.


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The latter seems more accurate.

[maciej]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

I think this is exactly my issue - That it seems like an inconsistent mechanism and just kind of reeks of manufactured arrogance.

Several of these watches end up on the gray market. That is an indisputable fact.

I have no issue with the profiling and the demonstrated ability to spend. But ensuring fairness means being consistent and being certain every Perpetual, Skeleton, and Ceramic is going to people that spend, love the brand, or preferably both. For all the time spent profiling real customers, it seems elementary to be able to weed out the flippers or those operating in the gray market. But this isn’t happening.

Some of these watches still walk out the back door, feeding the cycle of frustration.

The reason for the committee and the additional scrutiny as to who gets the pieces is precisely to fight against these pieces going to people who will just flip them, it isn't arrogance, it's their desire to get the pieces into the hands of people that are passionate about them as opposed to profiteers.

[Analysing You]

Originally Posted by Exceptional

Exactly, well said! I love Tokyo and visit annually and they are the most upfront ADs.



Even this response shows just how flakey you really are, you don't appear very confident in backing your own story. So now you admit you do mention your channel to aid in rapport building with the AD, to show your a legitimate collector? Oh what a surprise, earlier you didn't even mention your channel. Your a relatively new collector, only been collecting a couple of years so your still making mistakes in the information you put out, although you think your being coy.

I will call your bluff and say post your receipts then (but we all know you won't), just be sure to cover up any bundled purchase entries.

Haha! Stop it with all the smoke and mirrors already, we see right through it. And it's cool, I obtain what I want without having to brown nose AD's for 6 months, whatsapping them and making special trips but again, I'll wait for you to deny this too.

I can assure he has paid full retail for all of his watches and would never bundle up. Don’t be so judgemental. If you have an issue with not getting yours, take it up with your AD!


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[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by Analysing You

I can assure he has paid full retail for all of his watches and would never bundle up. Don’t be so judgemental. If you have an issue with not getting yours, take it up with your AD!


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Don't you mean the approval committee?

[Analysing You]

Originally Posted by macrowatch

Don't you mean the approval committee?

Lol


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[Dopeboy]

AD's have advised you wouldn't get your watch from an AD in the coffin shipping container, at least not in 2020. Can anyone confirm if this is true?

[roxobox]

Originally Posted by Dopeboy

AD's have advised you wouldn't get your watch from an AD in the coffin shipping container, at least not in 2020. Can anyone confirm if this is true?

This is correct. SA's from a boutique (where this is only available) would never give out the coffin or shipping container from a new piece. This isn't Rolex.

Call any boutique say "a friend of mine just bought a piece and was given the shipping box and coffin, can I get one too?" and they'll tell you that it's a big no no.

Easy to confirm.