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28 May 2020, 03:48 AM | #61 | |
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Regardless of what Aaron had to put up with and I don't by any means wish to be little his struggle Bond's route to getting there just isn't deserving because he cheated to get there. It's just too bad that record which now unfortunately exists in the Hall of Fame. That's bad enough, but he certainly isn.t deserving to have his bust there as well. Frankly I think they should take the record from him as well.
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29 May 2020, 02:47 AM | #62 |
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There seems to be some pretty knowledgeable people here with respect to bicycle racing. Just out of curiosity, what do you think LA's legacy would be if he never doped, assuming nothing else changed during his career? What would his legacy be if neither he, nor anyone else, doped during his career?
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29 May 2020, 05:22 AM | #63 | |
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30 May 2020, 01:16 AM | #64 |
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30 May 2020, 01:52 AM | #65 |
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As Abe Lincoln said, "You can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the time, most of the time." Or something like that. |
30 May 2020, 01:52 AM | #66 |
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I think I get the point. But without the doping, would he ever have been engaged to Sheryl Crow, or have been over-chicked?
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As Abe Lincoln said, "You can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the time, most of the time." Or something like that. Last edited by erhein; 30 May 2020 at 01:55 AM.. Reason: Hit "Submit" too soon. |
30 May 2020, 03:04 AM | #67 |
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30 May 2020, 03:53 AM | #68 |
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You can not ascertain what cycling or Armstrong’s career would look like if he and his teammates were not involved in doping. Without question, he would not have been nearly as successful; that is not in doubt. Armstrong never possessed the horsepower, in terms of VO2 max, of say, Greg LeMond or Bernard Hinult.
My point would focus on Armstrong’s megalomaniac personality that bordered on sociopathology. He used and abused many of those he befriended or those that threatened his world. I personally know a cyclist that Armstrong threatened with revealing a childhood tragedy. I have yet to see an attempt at redemption or and honest apology without blaming others for his choices in life. |
30 May 2020, 05:10 AM | #69 | |
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31 May 2020, 12:18 AM | #70 |
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It wasn’t about one athlete’s enhanced ability; it was an entire systematic team of cheaters with the sole purpose of an Armstrong victory. Without question, modern teams are dependent on all members to contribute to the leaders success. Armstrong had an iron hand in the team members complete dedication to him with threats and manipulation; from the team doctors to the masseuse. There were also many indicators that officials helped the team with advanced notices for drug testing and potential drug manipulations.
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31 May 2020, 01:37 AM | #71 | |
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31 May 2020, 11:50 AM | #72 |
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I’m sorry. You cannot really believe this, can you?
Nobody has won the Tour or the Giro or Vuelta in the 35+ years that I’ve been watching cycling without some level of assistance. Lemond’s whiter than white nonsense is just ridiculous. |
1 June 2020, 10:15 AM | #73 |
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Greg LeMond was an incredibly talented cyclist. He was winning races at every stage of his career. I believe he would have won four or five Tours if he was not shot. On the other hand, Armstrong was much less regarded as a cyclist, even during his Tour run, he did not participate on the full pro cycling circuit; instead riding only the premier events. Lastly, Lemond’s physical abilities were off the chart, with a lung capacity that could utilize oxygen almost 10% better than Armstrong. I raced with LeMond and never saw any evidence of doping.
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1 June 2020, 12:51 PM | #74 | |
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I personally know a few pro (multiple NHL hockey, 1 NFL, 2 MLB) and Olympic (hockey, XC skiing) athletes, and the notion that ALL athletes at the highest levels resort to doping isn't reality. The Olympic XC skier, in a sport that mostly relies on pure physical capacity/strength and technique in a combination of sprinting, hill climbing, endurance (sort of like pro cycling), who helped represented the US Team at 3 Winter Olympics, was a natural talent that allowed his training and relentless hard work to enhance his natural ability on an arc and level well past the usual plateaus that normally limit the "pretty talented" or "very good" no matter hard they train. My friend didn't even get on a pair of XC skies until he was a teenager, but from the outset needed very little coaching on the finer points of technique and his weight and cardio training regimen returned performance rewards that far exceeded the rest of us "very good" athletic types who trained right alongside him. To look at him, you'd never believe he was a world class athlete unless you measured his body fat or watched this "skinny" guy outlift the bulked-up football player/bodybuilder types in a weight room. Some people are just born to excel if a sport they choose matches their particular potential and forte'. He didn't win any gold medals, but does this mean the Norwegians who usually did were involved in a massive doping regimen just because around the same time sprinters in the Summer Olympics were? I think not. |
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1 June 2020, 01:18 PM | #75 |
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Anyone watching 30 for 30 on Lance?
Armstrong ruined cycling for me
But the ultimate truth is, if he would have stopped at 6 Tour de France wins he would have gotten away with it As much as he is a scum bag, they destroyed him because he had the audacity to win 7 tours The jealousy and hatred he got from the French and the Europeans for winning their precious race is almost as despicable as his cheating I think cyclist cheat just as much now but they make sure they do not win to many tours, the concentrate on cashing in and making money instead Armstrong fatal flaw was not the he was a cheater but that he HAD TO WIN at any cost, he had to win 7 instead of just cashing in Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
1 June 2020, 01:20 PM | #76 |
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Watching tonight, there was an incident in the family kitchen where Lance cut his finger, and for all the world, he acted as though it had never happened to him before. At one point, after a calling a doctor friend who advised him to just wrap it up, he was using electrical tape.
Odd.
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1 June 2020, 02:47 PM | #77 |
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I watched part one and two tonight. Armstrong came across as a narcissistic sociopath and just an all around bad person. It’s one thing to get caught then lie and try and being people down with you is pathetic.
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1 June 2020, 02:56 PM | #78 |
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Near the end, he included himself in a list of “cycling victims” of the doping drama.
Until he deals with that deficit of self-awareness, he is lost to the ash heap of cheaters who are unrepentant. I believe he thinks others ruined him - particularly Floyd Landis. No true remorse for the damage he did to others including teammates, staff and his own family. The story was compelling overall, but he won’t sell the public despite the PR effort throughout the 4 hours of screen time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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1 June 2020, 03:19 PM | #79 |
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Man, I wish I still believed the top .75% of elite athletes were clean.
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2 June 2020, 05:10 AM | #80 |
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This doesn't have anything to do with anything but I thought it was funny.
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2 June 2020, 05:28 AM | #81 | |
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dP
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2 June 2020, 02:36 PM | #82 |
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Seen enough of this guy already. He might wish to rewrite history but I'm not buying it. I really don't care if he cries real crocodile tears, the dude has made his bed and he can rot in it.
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3 June 2020, 06:10 AM | #83 | |
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X2 While I felt some of the documentary was empathetic, especially with his Cancer foundation, mostly the show just reinforced my belief that he’s still a major pr*ck. No thanks, he’s still toxic. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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3 June 2020, 06:15 AM | #84 |
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Tour de Pharmacy is better.
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3 June 2020, 06:28 AM | #85 |
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He was misunderstood.
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3 June 2020, 06:48 AM | #86 | |
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Haven’t finished it yet but i do get the sense that he’s still not exactly taking the blame for what happened. I’m not sure where the foundation is now but i would imagine his foundation did some real good in the past. If you click on the foundation link something pops up about cheating and how cancer isn’t a choice. It’s interesting. I believe that he thought he couldn’t win without doping, and i can understand that from an athlete perspective. If everyone else around you is doing it, you need to do it to win. But you can’t do it then complain and cry about it when you get caught. He does give off a strange vibe though. For a guy that has to deal with people constantly calling him a cheater and hating him, it doesn’t seem to have humbled him at all. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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3 June 2020, 08:07 AM | #87 | |
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3 June 2020, 06:05 PM | #88 |
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Like many, I was devastated when it was certain that Lance was a cheat. I used to stay up watching this guy flying up the mountains. Having watched a number of documentaries about this and TdF in general, I’ve gained so much respect for Greg LeMond, especially the greatest race of them all, the 1986 TdF. I’d highly recommend spending the hour or so watching Slaying The Badger instead of Lance.
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3 June 2020, 07:15 PM | #89 |
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Who is going to give me back the time I am going to spend on Armstrong?
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3 June 2020, 11:12 PM | #90 | |
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The guy who twisted your arm into spending that time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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