1680 Red Submariner

[Brisman]

G'day guys,

Could I have some input on this Sub.
She's looking right to me. Serial No is 2216XXX

Looks like a Mk1 69 Red Sub.

Bracelet is 91350/508.

True and correct.?

I'm thinking about buying as is.

[CharlieMae]

I have the exact same one, serial 2.1, Mark I, Meters First. Check the caseback, should be stamped II 69 or III 69.

How much are they asking for it? It is the most rare of all of the Red Subs.

[Michael M.]

Watch out for that dial, the picture isn't the best, but it looks like a fake to me.

[Brisman]

Originally Posted by Michael M.

Watch out for that dial, the picture isn't the best, but it looks like a fake to me.

And the reasons why?

All looks legit to me. That wear looks correct.

I'd be interested in your opinion why it's a fake.

[Rameez-Q]

Bezel looks very faded which is nice!

Crystal is not genuine

Dial, would require close up shots. Butt that submariner colour looks a little off to me

[Brisman]

Originally Posted by DannyK

Bezel looks very faded which is nice!

Crystal is not genuine

Dial, would require close up shots. Butt that submariner colour looks a little off to me

Dial has gone Tropical, as expected for this year.

Any other concerns.

[Brisman]

[QUOTE=Brisman;5827364]Dial has gone Tropical, as expected for this year.

Any other concerns!

[CharlieMae]

A better picture would be needed to authenticate the dial. How much are they asking for the watch?

[Brisman]

C'mon Guys, don't reply if you don't know what your talking about.

Really, this effort for a fake in Oz, don't think so, dial, bezel.

Look at the crystal, bezel, and the wear. Serial No. Looks good for this set up.

So, those that say a fake, you've got to say why?

[Brisman]

Originally Posted by DannyK

Bezel looks very faded which is nice!

Crystal is not genuine

Dial, would require close up shots. Butt that submariner colour looks a little off to me

Crystal not genuine?

Just asking, looks right worn to me, especially under the loupe.
I had no questions to its authenticity.

[clock]

Be patient, a few of the experts will provide some answers.

[CharlieMae]

I wont provide any answers until I know what the OP is being asked to pay for the watch.
:)

[Brisman]

Originally Posted by CharlieMae

I wont provide any answers until I know what the OP is being asked to pay for the watch.
:)

Why, what difference does that make to an opinion.

It's either right or wrong.

Your not providing any input if your going on price only or should I say you have no idea what your talking about if that's your marker.

[CharlieMae]

I sent you a PM. If the ask is 17,000 USD then it isnt even worth considering. If they are asking $5000 USD then its a no brainer. Thats part of why I asked and to see if the price is commensurate with what it is actually worth.

Based on our PM, the price is cheap and worth rolling the dice for, even if the dial turns out to be refinished you would not get hurt too badly on the watch. Sometimes you roll the dice and buy quickly before someone else snatches it up while you are doing your due diligence. In this case I would snatch it up based on the ask price.

[Brisman]

Originally Posted by Brisman

G'day guys,

Could I have some input on this Sub.
She's looking right to me. Serial No is 2216XXX

Looks like a Mk1 69 Red Sub.

Bracelet is 91350/508.

True and correct.?

I'm thinking about buying as is.

Anyway, I've been around the forum for a while and I'm generally good on vintage Rolex.

Just thought I'd ask if there was anything obviously wrong with this.

Seems I've had some vague answers. Anyway, hopefully we'll get some real insight to this from the experts.

[Brisman]

Originally Posted by CharlieMae

I sent you a PM. If the ask is 17,000 USD then it isnt even worth considering. If they are asking $5000 USD then its a no brainer. Thats part of why I asked and to see if the price is commensurate with what it is actually worth.

Based on our PM, the price is cheap and worth rolling the dice for, even if the dial turns out to be refinished you would not get hurt too badly on the watch. Sometimes you roll the dice and buy quickly before someone else snatches it up while you are doing your due diligence. In this case I would snatch it up based on the ask price.

Sorry mate, you and me don't work the same way.

Price doesn't matter, they still ask silly money for fakes it's not the marker.

Eg - f font looks good, closed 6, looks right for the Serial No.

Any opinions from somebody with experience on these?

[CharlieMae]

We do not work the same way. A 1969 case and movement have value, regardless of the dial. To buy the watch at the right price would make the dial a bonus. Many times I have bought watches with the wrong dial and saved my ass by selling off the parts. Other times you get lucky and the dial is correct and you score big. Only when the dial and the case are wrong OR you overpay do you get hurt. Based on the price you told me, this is about the most I would pay for the watch with this "unknown" dial. If its refinished then you part out the watch and break even, if its original then you bought it for far less than market value. Thats how we businessmen do it here in the US of A!

[minimerc]

Originally Posted by michael m.

watch out for that dial, the picture isn't the best, but it looks like a fake to me.

+1

[Brisman]

Originally Posted by CharlieMae

We do not work the same way. A 1969 case and movement have value, regardless of the dial. To buy the watch at the right price would make the dial a bonus. Many times I have bought watches with the wrong dial and saved my ass by selling off the parts. Other times you get lucky and the dial is correct and you score big. Only when the dial and the case are wrong OR you overpay do you get hurt. Based on the price you told me, this is about the most I would pay for the watch with this "unknown" dial. If its refinished then you part out the watch and break even, if its original then you bought it for far less than market value. Thats how we businessmen do it here in the US of A!

See above, are you aware of these variations?

[Brisman]

Originally Posted by minimerc

+1

And why? Stating + 1 on a watch of this value doesn't offer any value what so ever.

[minimerc]

This was my mk1. Compare the long F.

[Brisman]

Guys, happy with feedback, but come on, we're talking about a watch somewhere between $15- 25k. A wee bit more insight doesn't go astray.

"+1" and "it looks like a fake" and "dial looks fake" .

Surely, with these sort of statements you need to justify them.

[Brisman]

Originally Posted by minimerc

This was my mk1. Compare the long F.

Thanks, so we agree the font is wrong? Is it a Mk2 or 3 font or you don't like the dial altogether.

Looks like the one I showed is a Mk II from what I can make out?
Serial No. Is still okay for that?

[nocrown]

Originally Posted by Brisman

Thanks, so we agree the font is wrong? Is it a Mk2 or 3 font or you don't like the dial altogether.

Looks like the one I showed is a Mk II from what I can make out?
Serial No. Is still okay for that?

here u go:

http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/w...ubdetails.html


ps while ur pic is hard to look at, i'd say the last 2 lines dont look right font-wise (& printed too fat/thick).....the f of ft is hard to gauge, but looks bit off from that pic and i have yet to see the red line go pink, tropical or not... i am no expert tho...

[minimerc]

Originally Posted by Brisman

Thanks, so we agree the font is wrong? Is it a Mk2 or 3 font or you don't like the dial altogether.

Looks like the one I showed is a Mk II from what I can make out?
Serial No. Is still okay for that?

This is my mk2, do compare. Best to read up doubleredseadweller.com as suggested by some members here. Good luck.

[Vincent65]

Wow, since you're asking for opinions from fellow members, your responses come across as quite aggressive.

Also, in most of your posts, you seem to be confident in its authenticity, and defending it quite staunchly:

"She's looking right to me."

"All looks legit to me."

"Just asking, looks right worn to me, especially under the loupe.
I had no questions to its authenticity."

"Dial has gone Tropical, as expected for this year."

"Eg - f font looks good, closed 6, looks right for the Serial No."

So, why the sudden u-turn?

"Thanks, so we agree the font is wrong?"


I'm not an expert, but I'd certainly want to see more, and much better/clearer/larger images than the hopeless one in the first post. Then, I could make an informed decision and be able to compare it properly with others. The 'business-end' of the dial is obscured by the hands, and humungous scratches on the ridiculously beaten-up plexi, which is curious for someone presenting a M-first red Sub... or any watch for that matter. The dial should be shown clearly with the plastic bit of crap taken off, or a new one installed, at least.

[Robbyvm]

Vincent is right...
It appears to be an MKII (below a pic of my MKI dial)
MKII sometimes turn tropical, never ssen an MKI do that.
You should get high definition close up pictures of the dial before you can get more valuable input on this forum.
I'm sure the dealer will provide them if he's wanting to sell this watch...
The money is in the dial when it comes to these red babies...

[CharlieMae]

I would agree that it is definitely not a Mark I, thats what threw me and perhaps others off as to its authenticity.

It could be a genuine Mark II and it would also be correct for a 2.21 case stamp. Makes sense that it would be tropical as Mark I's don't turn brown, but Mark II's and III's do.

I still have never seen a Red Sub writing turn pink, but DRSD do so it is possible.

Still need better pics of dial to verify but, its not a Mark I for sure.

[Brisman]

Thank you for the feedback guys, much appreciated, apologies if I came over aggressive as somebody mentioned.
Thanks again for the info.

[scooba]

Hi, I wouldn't know if its a fake but happy to hear it maybe worth up to $25k, I purchased a full set MK1 last year and its already doing better than leaving the money in the bank.