Vintage 1601’s skyrocketing over 1600’s and 1603’s?

[SubMarine]

Not original. The correct handset is the no-lume wideboy variation. T Swiss T is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by 77T

No it was all original. Did you note the dial is a T Swiss T version?




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[SubMarine]

Service dial. Not original.

Originally Posted by acesguerra

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[nigelk]

Originally Posted by SubMarine

Not original. The correct handset is the no-lume wideboy variation. T Swiss T is irrelevant.

You're wrong. Best to do your homework.

No lume dials are found with lume/no lume hands However, lume dials will definitely be with lume hands. I found this out after a bit of intense digging myself.

Its a common misconception that no lume dial must have no lume hands.

[nigelk]

Originally Posted by SubMarine

Service dial. Not original.

A service dial is an original dial by Rolex. It might not be period-correct but its definitely original.

[SubMarine]

Link me to a single other example? The no-lume handset is much rarer and more desirable by collectors. It’s very plausible that your non-lume handset was harvested in order to complete another non-lume dial. Either way, it looks strange and it can get tiring explaining it to other collectors.

Originally Posted by nigelk

You're wrong. Best to do your homework.

No lume dials are found with lume/no lume hands However, lume dials will definitely be with lume hands. I found this out after a bit of intense digging myself.

Its a common misconception that no lume dial must have no lume hands.

[SubMarine]

You may need to look up the definition of “original.”

Originally Posted by nigelk

A service dial is an original dial by Rolex. It might not be period-correct but its definitely original.

[acesguerra]

Originally Posted by SubMarine

Service dial. Not original.

Just for my knowledge and all of the newbie watch enthusiasts. What makes the dial a service dial? Are there certain markings that says service dial? From what I am reading and been searching on the forums. A service dial is a Rolex replacement dial. Not a period correct to the watch. Just like getting bringing in your car for a brake job. It’s a OEM PART. Just not the brakes that come the factory line. It doesn’t matter to me if it’s a service dial or not. This watch has sentimental to me. Not trying to make a profit or sell it.


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[SubMarine]

If you don’t care whether or not you’ve overpaid for your watch, understanding if your watch has a service dial is of no importance or significance to you.

Originally Posted by acesguerra

Just for my knowledge and all of the newbie watch enthusiasts. What makes the dial a service dial? Are there certain markings that says service dial? From what I am reading and been searching on the forums. A service dial is a Rolex replacement dial. Not a period correct to the watch. Just like getting bringing in your car for a brake job. It’s a OEM PART. Just not the brakes that come the factory line. It doesn’t matter to me if it’s a service dial or not. This watch has sentimental to me. Not trying to make a profit or sell it.


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[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by nigelk

A service dial is an original dial by Rolex. It might not be period-correct but its definitely original.

Original in my interpretation means “as originally sold with the watch”. You are using the term as a synonym for authentic. Two very different things.

[acesguerra]

Originally Posted by SubMarine

If you don’t care whether or not you’ve overpaid for your watch, understanding if your watch has a service dial is of no importance or significance to you.

I didn’t purchase the watch. It was my father who passed it down to me. And I just would like to know a little bit of the watch that my father doesn’t know as he was the second owner of this watch and he had owned this for more then 30 years. I’m sure he didn’t know it had a a service dial.. so I’m glad you pointed it out to me that it does have a service dial. I just had it service at Rolliworks, and they never mentioned it has a service dial. They just serviced the movement. So thanks for pointing that out,


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[Robtayham]

Originally Posted by SubMarine

As long as all parts are factory original and the pieces themselves are catalog correct, I don’t think anyone cares what combinations watches were “birthed” as. Condition is far more important than papers.

I have a 1984 TT DJ and. 1979 YG DD. Both have 100% Rolex parts, but some replacement parts, service dials, hands, bracelets, crowns. Not 100% original, as birthed. So, I do not have a problem with this.

But, I’d disagree with your point. There are a lot of buyers who want 100% original, as birthed watches. It makes a difference.

[steeevvvooo]

Originally Posted by Robtayham

I have a 1984 TT DJ and. 1979 YG DD. Both have 100% Rolex parts, but some replacement parts, service dials, hands, bracelets, crowns. Not 100% original, as birthed. So, I do not have a problem with this.



But, I’d disagree with your point. There are a lot of buyers who want 100% original, as birthed watches. It makes a difference.

Agree that hardcore vintage collectors want untouched watches. I am not such a collector.

Personally, and I only have one vintage which is a 1601, I want a watch to "look period correct". For some watches that may mean a service dial from a little later in the run, same with hands etc and the case as clean as sharp as possible. A 40 year old service dial on a 50 year old watch fits that bill for me but is not "original". I would also take a lightly polished but crisp case over a never polished but dinged case. Internals should be in working order but I don't mind having moving parts replaced if needed. Obviously I am never going to be buying the true "vintage" watches with this mindset...

I guess if I was to make a car analogy then personally I would love a Singer Porsche and would likely take one over an original model that was kept in a barn for 50 years. That's just me though.

IMG_20190917_084243.jpg

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[Robtayham]

Originally Posted by steeevvvooo

Agree that hardcore vintage collectors want untouched watches. I am not such a collector.

Personally, and I only have one vintage which is a 1601, I want a watch to "look period correct". For some watches that may mean a service dial from a little later in the run, same with hands etc and the case as clean as sharp as possible. A 40 year old service dial on a 50 year old watch fits that bill for me but is not "original". I would also take a lightly polished but crisp case over a never polished but dinged case. Internals should be in working order but I don't mind having moving parts replaced if needed. Obviously I am never going to be buying the true "vintage" watches with this mindset...

I guess if I was to make a car analogy then personally I would love a Singer Porsche and would likely take one over an original model that was kept in a barn for 50 years. That's just me though.

Attachment 1080011

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I’m also not looking for a 100% original, as birthed, watch. It’d be too valuable to risk wearing it. I don’t want safe queens.

I’m not even sure I want it to be period correct. I define ‘period correct’, for example as, having to find a dial that was manufactured in the same year as the watch was manufactured. The same period. I have no interest in tracking that down.

Instead, I’m fine with letting Rolex replace parts with current day manufactured service parts. This allows me to not worry about wearing my watches as daily worn watches. Something breaks, it gets replaced by Rolex.

But, I do understand there are purist. I’m just not one of them.

[Adamj79]

Originally Posted by steeevvvooo

Agree that hardcore vintage collectors want untouched watches. I am not such a collector.

Personally, and I only have one vintage which is a 1601, I want a watch to "look period correct". For some watches that may mean a service dial from a little later in the run, same with hands etc and the case as clean as sharp as possible. A 40 year old service dial on a 50 year old watch fits that bill for me but is not "original". I would also take a lightly polished but crisp case over a never polished but dinged case. Internals should be in working order but I don't mind having moving parts replaced if needed. Obviously I am never going to be buying the true "vintage" watches with this mindset...

I guess if I was to make a car analogy then personally I would love a Singer Porsche and would likely take one over an original model that was kept in a barn for 50 years. That's just me though.

Attachment 1080011

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What strap is this?
I’m having a black gator one made from Aaron Bespoke and may look for a brown option as well.

[steeevvvooo]

Originally Posted by Adamj79

What strap is this?

I’m having a black gator one made from Aaron Bespoke and may look for a brown option as well.

It actually came with a Speedmaster I bought years ago so have no idea sorry. I've had very similar ones made from an Instagram account though. It's just a standard natural leather with perforated "racing" style holes. I put it on the DJ to mix it up a bit as the jubilee I have is pretty stretched.

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[nigelk]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

Original in my interpretation means “as originally sold with the watch”. You are using the term as a synonym for authentic. Two very different things.

If i were to say something is not original, that would immediately imply it as a fake. No one would think that it is not "originally sold with the watch".

If you wanted to say "as originally sold with the watch" then say the full phrase out.

Thats the problem with a lot of buyers I feel. And then they get pissed when something is not "originally as sold with the watch".

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by nigelk

If i were to say something is not original, that would immediately imply it as a fake. No one would think that it is not "originally sold with the watch".

If you wanted to say "as originally sold with the watch" then say the full phrase out.

Thats the problem with a lot of buyers I feel. And then they get pissed when something is not "originally as sold with the watch".

Problem with buyers? What about sellers? I have seen many sellers state in a listing, "excellent original insert" when in fact it's a much later service insert. Yes, it's a Rolex insert, but it's not the insert that came with the watch. Is it the buyer's onus to detect that semantic vagueness? Possibly. But, if you're going to stake your reputation as a respected seller, then you should do your own research and determine what's correct, or not.

[edgware14]

Originally Posted by SubMarine

If you don’t care whether or not you’ve overpaid for your watch, understanding if your watch has a service dial is of no importance or significance to you.

Why so miserable?

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by nigelk

If i were to say something is not original, that would immediately imply it as a fake. No one would think that it is not "originally sold with the watch".

If you wanted to say "as originally sold with the watch" then say the full phrase out.

Thats the problem with a lot of buyers I feel. And then they get pissed when something is not "originally as sold with the watch".

The onus is on the seller, not the buyer, to be very clear. Knowing that by definition many people associate original with “as originally left the factory”, then as a seller it should be clear that a part is an “authentic replacement”.

[JBZ]

Originally Posted by nigelk

If i were to say something is not original, that would immediately imply it as a fake. No one would think that it is not "originally sold with the watch".

If you wanted to say "as originally sold with the watch" then say the full phrase out.

Thats the problem with a lot of buyers I feel. And then they get pissed when something is not "originally as sold with the watch".

There's a pretty obvious middle ground between saying "original" (which every knowledgeable buyer I know would interpret as "originally sold with the watch") and "not original."

Maybe something like, "genuine Rolex replacement dial." Seems pretty easy and avoids any confusion.

[RKTINC1]

Glad to hear they are headed up in value. Function largely of inflation and time IMO. I gave $1900 for a nearly perfect silver Tiffany dial 1601 head in 2009. Gave $650 for a mint jubilee a year ago. They make a nice set and I love the size of it. Looks like I can double my investment. Should have bought a pile of them when they were $1500 a pop.

RKTINC

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by nigelk

If i were to say something is not original, that would immediately imply it as a fake. No one would think that it is not "originally sold with the watch".



If you wanted to say "as originally sold with the watch" then say the full phrase out.



Thats the problem with a lot of buyers I feel. And then they get pissed when something is not "originally as sold with the watch".

If 1) I am not the original owner of the watch
and 2) the dial is correct for the period and model, then how would I-or could I-ever know if “that dial” came in that particular watch from the factory. Utterly impossible.




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[iliketime]

a few years ago, decent state 1601/1603s were available on elady01 for around $2400-$2700 with bracelet. those are gone

[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Firstly, I would never go on a public forum and call a stranger a liar, not only does it indicate incredible stupidity it can get you banned.

Would you care to make a friendly 100,000 US dollar bet that I can produce these watches for a suitable 3rd party to authenticate? Or are you simply just another worthless internet troll? :)