Horrible experience with ABC Watchwerks. Incompetent & possible fraud!!

[NKflyer]

The short version:

I am a four-time prior customer of ABC Watchwerks in Los Angeles. I sent them my Tudor Submariner to have the movement serviced, case polished, and hands relumed to better match the dial. The original timeframe of 4-5 weeks wound up taking 18+ weeks. They don't answer emails and don't return phone calls. When I finally did get the watch back, the polish job looked terrible and it doesn't seem like the movement was serviced at all, even though I was charged for it. Photos available below.

The (very) long version:

Let me start by saying that I am a four-time repeat customer of ABC Watchwerks, although all of my prior dealings were before the split with LAWW. I spoke with Aaron in early October 2017 about a movement service, case polish, and relume the hands on my Tudor Snowflake Submariner. Aaron was responsive during the period before I shipped the watch.

Here is a link to an ad wth many photos of the watch before I sent it in:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=551629

Once they received the watch on October 11, 2017, communication turned non-existent. In the following weeks, I didn't receive any sort of notice that the watch was ever received (fortunately, the package had signature confirmation). No estimate, no email, no phone call to discuss the job, just nothing.

I tried to be patient but after 3-4 weeks, I started emailing and calling to see what was going on since the initial timeframe to complete the work was only 4-5 weeks but I hadn't even heard word one.

The worst part about dealing with ABC Watchwerks is the total lack of communication. They don't answer emails and they don't return phone calls. You have to keep persistently calling until you're lucky enough to get a human to answer the phone. But even then, don't expect to get any useful information or status updates. They'll just say that they'll look into your repair and call you back, but they never do!

Finally on January 26, 2018, after 15 1/2 weeks of my calling every 3-4 weeks and never getting a solid answer as to status or a completion date, I told them that I just wanted the watch shipped back to me immediately in any condition so that I could have a different watchmaker tend to it.

A couple days later on January 30, 2018, Alex called me to profusely apologize for what had happened. He had every excuse under the sun. They had failed to properly inventory the watch, they're shorthanded staff, computer problems, and several similar looking watches were being serviced at the same time leading to confusion.

But Alex said the movement service was long ago completed and the hands had already been redone. The only remaining step was to polish the watch. Alex offered me a significant discount on the cost of the work as an apology and promised the watch within the next week, which I agreed to.

Fast forward another 15 days to February 14, 2018. Still no watch, no calls, no emails. At this point, I was really infuriated. I called again and Marco told me that he thought the watch was already finished. I angrily said that I just wanted the watch shipped back today in whatever condition it's in, no more excuses. Or else I was going to alert the authorities, send a demand letter via certified mail, post on this forum, etc. As usual, I was told that someone would have to call me back.

Later that evening, Aaron called me back and said the watch was done and they could ship it immediately once I paid, which I promptly did. The total on the invoice was $1,095 but I was charged only $500 per Alex's offer of a discount for the delays and miscommunications.



The next day, February 15th, 2018 I received the watch and the first thing I noticed is that it looked really bad. They did a good job on the lugs but the sides looked horrible.





Next, although they were supposed to have relumed all of the hands per our several discussions, I noticed that they only relumed the hour hand. And the quality of the work was amateurish! It's tough to see in photos, but it is very rough/cratered in real life.





By this point, I was getting pretty angry but I kept telling myself that I only paid $500 out of $1095 and was just glad to have the watch back, period. So let's see how it's running. I gave the watch a good 30+ manual winds and put it on my timegrapher machine.





Ugh! Okay, maybe it's possible that the watch got dropped during shipping or something, causing it to run poorly. But after all else that happened, the pessimist in me says they didn't service it at all. I am obviously not a watchmaker and only have very basic skills but I did open the back and took a couple photos.











Like I said, I'm not an expert but I have seen alot of movements and this just doesn't seem like a clean, newly serviced piece and I noticed that the holder tabs are crooked, you can see some dust with a loupe, etc. If a pro wants to chime in based on these photos, I'd sure appreciate it.

So anyway, just a warning to other collectors that ABC Watchwerks is NOT the same company as when Edvi and Beau were still involved. In my opinion, ABC is circling the drain. The whole experience has been stressful and I have gone to bed angry many times over the lack of communication and being kept in the dark.

At this point, I don't want any "warranty" work from ABC even if they offer. I just want to move on and never speak to them again. A refund would be nice, though.

[christo4]

Eeech! Horrible AND incomplete lume-job. +/- 20-something seconds is crazy inappropriate following "service". ....and the fact that the caseback is dirtier than my toilet just confirms to me that they did NOT clean it ....let alone lubricate it.

[Chewbacca]

personally, i'd send them the invoice for your Tudor sub they just bought.

[BBL]

NKflyer

Ouch. I feel badly for you.

Had an unfortunate experience with a service warranty not addressing my watch's problems (mailed for service under warranty twice for same problem and couldn't bring myself to send it back a third time), so not exactly as your situation and NOT with ABC W..

My watch's internal parts told the truth about its condition causing all its problems.
Another well respected watchmaker performed an excellent service job, but it ended up being pricey because of all the things he had to correct.

Can you locate another experienced watchmaker to correct its issues?
Hang in there. There are dependable people in this world.
DM

[soaking.fused]

Sorry to hear this.

ABC serviced my Vintage Rolex 5513. The watch came back from service with the dial damaged and 1520 movement running over minute fast.

Very unhappy with ABC and I do not recommend them.

[Max16013]

Their ownership split a few years back, as you know, due to one of them (allegedly) stealing.

I believe the one that stayed on hill street is the one responsible. I wouldn't recommend using them anymore, not sure why you trusted him after the split

Sorry to hear though.

[soaking.fused]

Originally Posted by Max16013

Their ownership split a few years back, as you know, due to one of them (allegedly) stealing.

I believe the one that stayed on hill street is the one responsible. I wouldn't recommend using them anymore, not sure why you trusted him after the split

Sorry to hear though.

Well, I can tell you why had utilized them. It was because of the praise and feedback gleaned from this site mostly. I searched online for feedback and ABC came up as a vintage source for service, which turned out to be a massive error.

I asked Alex about the theft from years ago and was misled as to the actual details of what transpired; Alex said it was a combination of a break-in and a few pieces lost in shipping. Did not see a thread on TRF, VRF or elsewhere with the story you are referring to, though.

Had a terrible experience with ABC, nonetheless. And that's why I felt it necessary to share my experience with ABC for others in posting a feedback thread as well as contributing to this one.

[Max16013]

Originally Posted by soaking.fused

Well, I can tell you why had utilized them. It was because of the praise and feedback gleaned from this site mostly. I searched online for feedback and ABC came up as a vintage source for service, which turned out to be a massive error.



I asked Alex about the theft from years ago and was misled as to the actual details of what transpired; Alex said it was a combination of a break-in and a few pieces lost in shipping. Did not see a thread on TRF, VRF or elsewhere with the story you are referring to, though.



Had a terrible experience with ABC, nonetheless. And that's why I felt it necessary to share my experience with ABC for others in posting a feedback thread as well as contributing to this one,

Head to LAWW next time you need anything vintage related done!

Sorry for your bad experience, thanks for sharing so others know to proceed with caution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[soaking.fused]

Originally Posted by Max16013

Head to LAWW next time you need anything vintage related done!

Sorry for your bad experience, thanks for sharing so others know to proceed with caution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really appreciate your post, thank you!

Definitely will be using LAWW in the future.

[NKflyer]

Originally Posted by Max16013

Their ownership split a few years back, as you know, due to one of them (allegedly) stealing.

I believe the one that stayed on hill street is the one responsible. I wouldn't recommend using them anymore, not sure why you trusted him after the split

Sorry to hear though.

Well I don't think that's exactly common knowledge about the alleged stealing.

All the negative comments here about ABC really only started surfacing very recently, after I had already sent my watch. Like soaking.fused, I just wanted to warn everyone.

Anyway, I decided to open a dispute with my credit card company for the $500 service charge. If Alex has even a tiny shred of integrity remaining, he hopefully won't fight the chargeback. They know they shipped me total crap.

I will probably wind up selling the watch on ebay as-is, disclosing the need for service, of course. I am pretty fed up with it.

[Max16013]

Originally Posted by NKflyer

Well I don't think that's exactly common knowledge about the alleged stealing.



All the negative comments here about ABC really only started surfacing very recently, after I had already sent my watch. Like soaking.fused, I just wanted to warn everyone.



Anyway, I decided to open a dispute with my credit card company for the $500 service charge. If Alex has even a tiny shred of integrity remaining, he hopefully won't fight the chargeback. They know they shipped me total crap.



I will probably wind up selling the watch on ebay as-is, disclosing the need for service, of course. I am pretty fed up with it.

Sorry you’re probably right, I’m new to the forum but I get upset hearing these horror stories from ABC because they keep happening, so frequently.

Best of luck man, hope it all works out in your favor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[soaking.fused]

Originally Posted by NKflyer

Well I don't think that's exactly common knowledge about the alleged stealing.

All the negative comments here about ABC really only started surfacing very recently, after I had already sent my watch. Like soaking.fused, I just wanted to warn everyone.

Anyway, I decided to open a dispute with my credit card company for the $500 service charge. If Alex has even a tiny shred of integrity remaining, he hopefully won't fight the chargeback. They know they shipped me total crap.

I will probably wind up selling the watch on ebay as-is, disclosing the need for service, of course. I am pretty fed up with it.

Agree.

I had also searched Yelp and read many reviews, too. Problem I noticed recently with Yelp is some reviews (often times helpful ones from new members that sign up just to review) are deemed 'not suggested' and therefore not displayed by Yelp software. And the reviews considered not recommended do not count against the business rating and are not easily seen.

Would be great for members to log into Yelp and mark some of the critical reviews for ABC as 'Useful' to ensure that these reviews remain posted and can be referenced for people considering using their service(s).

[datejust24]

First time reading a bad review of ABC..sorry for your troubles brother

[alubin]

Thats actually a little bit scary. I have used them in the past and have always been satisfied with the work, but this may make me take a step back. I'd certainly contact them. It does say on the invoice "relume hour hand" but this may be their mistake, no yours. Also, a vintage refinish sometimes has to do with brushing only the top of the lugs and recreating chamfers rather than polishing the whole watch.

[NKflyer]

Originally Posted by alubin

Thats actually a little bit scary. I have used them in the past and have always been satisfied with the work, but this may make me take a step back. I'd certainly contact them. It does say on the invoice "relume hour hand" but this may be their mistake, no yours. Also, a vintage refinish sometimes has to do with brushing only the top of the lugs and recreating chamfers rather than polishing the whole watch.

I've had good experiences in the past too. But losing several key employees obviously had a grave effect on communication and workmanship. The plan from the beginning was to relume all the hands. They only relumed one and changed the invoice language to suit. Do you really think it costs $250 to relume one hand?

[antbkny]

that sucks, on the list they go

[westsiderkg]

Thanks for posting and very sorry to hear of your experience. Please circle back if you decide to re-do with another expert. Hang in there.

[imperio]

Originally Posted by NKflyer

I've had good experiences in the past too. But losing several key employees obviously had a grave effect on communication and workmanship. The plan from the beginning was to relume all the hands. They only relumed one and changed the invoice language to suit. Do you really think it costs $250 to relume one hand?

Furthermore, why would a customer only ask to relume one hand??

[krh7]

I sent ABC a quote request on 4/19 to swap hands on my OP. Got the automated reply that promised an estimate within a day (usually 60 minutes). Never heard anything. Followed up on 4/23 and 4/26 and nobody got back to me. Maybe they're better with locals.

I'll never use them. Next try will be LA WW.

[116710er]

Wow this is terrible. I had a couple watches serviced by them and they turned out as expected but communications was terrible. No update, no return calls, no one answers most of the time, etc. I recently need to have some work done and I decided to give LAWW a try and after reading this, I'm glad I did. So far, LAWW has been much better and returning emails/calls.

[SwissR]

I sent my Rolex Oysterquartz to them in April, still no sign of the work having been completed or even started. I have no work order number, and I was informed I would receive an estimate I could approve via their site, but it has been

Although I have had contact now-and-then and have been assured my watch will be worked on, recently phone calls have gone straight to voicemail and emails remain unanswered.

I am not sure where to go from here, as I am not local to LA.

Have I been scammed?

[devoti]

Originally Posted by SwissR

I sent my Rolex Oysterquartz to them in April, still no sign of the work having been completed or even started. I have no work order number, and I was informed I would receive an estimate I could approve via their site, but it has been

Although I have had contact now-and-then and have been assured my watch will be worked on, recently phone calls have gone straight to voicemail and emails remain unanswered.

I am not sure where to go from here, as I am not local to LA.

Have I been scammed?

This is bad and I'm sorry to hear you're experiencing this. I'm a local and have had many watches serviced by them over the years. I too have been extremely disappointed by there communications and long delays and this was before they split and LA Watchworks was created. I must say the people I was in contact with/extremely frustrated with at ABC Watchwerks are now the ones at LA Watchworks.

I seriously doubt you have been scammed, they are a real watch service center and service many expensive watches but very sad to hear what you're going through and not sure what to recommend on what to do other than keep trying to call them during their working hours.

I don't think they understand how important it is to properly communicate to customers and for ABC Watchwerks to take the extra care not promise customers a date unless they can follow through with it. Those two things are very important on top of great watch repair. They had one of my watches for over 1 year and that was only because I kept calling them and going to there location 5 times.

[SwissR]

Originally Posted by devoti

This is bad and I'm sorry to hear you're experiencing this. I'm a local and have had many watches serviced by them over the years. I too have been extremely disappointed by there communications and long delays and this was before they split and LA Watchworks was created. I must say the people I was in contact with/extremely frustrated with at ABC Watchwerks are now the ones at LA Watchworks.

I seriously doubt you have been scammed, they are a real watch service center and service many expensive watches but very sad to hear what you're going through and not sure what to recommend on what to do other than keep trying to call them during their working hours.

I don't think they understand how important it is to properly communicate to customers and for ABC Watchwerks to take the extra care not promise customers a date unless they can follow through with it. Those two things are very important on top of great watch repair. They had one of my watches for over 1 year and that was only because I kept calling them and going to there location 5 times.

wow... a year. That's shocking regardless of the quality of work they do. They must be really overloaded or incompetent

I'm happy to cut my losses here and have the watch back in its un-serviced state, and send it off elsewhere. So I've contacted them and let them know I will pay for the return shipping, let's see.

[eugenetsang]

Originally Posted by devoti

...this was before they split and LA Watchworks was created. I must say the people I was in contact with/extremely frustrated with at ABC Watchwerks are now the ones at LA Watchworks.

I am looking to have some laser welding done on my Rolex Sub 116610 with LA Watch Works... I've read great things about them... But now I am hesitant because you're saying they are the same guys over at ABC Watchwerks?!?!

[devoti]

Originally Posted by eugenetsang

I am looking to have some laser welding done on my Rolex Sub 116610 with LA Watch Works... I've read great things about them... But now I am hesitant because you're saying they are the same guys over at ABC Watchwerks?!?!

Yes they are for better, for worse the people at LA Watchworks who use to work at ABC. I've personally dealt many times with people at LA W. when they were at ABC when I was trying to get my watches back and serviced properly. I still have a lot of emails and texts many years ago by the same three people and names who are regularly mentioned at LA Watchworks.

It's not that they can not do excellent work, they can but personally I think they're both simply just too overloaded and can't handle the work load. Older watches need good people to service them and they're simply not enough watch makers to go around and they have watches coming out of there eye balls. The result is that some people are very frustrated and quality control goes down with the massive workload.

The problem is, who else do you go to with the same qualifications, experience and equipment? The list is very short.

I strongly suggest for them to find/hire more/better people to handle the phones and customer support but that's just my opinion. If they're so busy with so many orders at those prices then theoretically they should be able to hire staff to better service clients and process orders but then I have no idea how the watch service industry works other than being on the other side as a frustrated client, sometimes happy client for many years.

I will say I did have my very favorite watch serviced by ABC six years ago and it still looks and runs perfectly, I love it but they did have to do it twice to get it right. Its been approx. a 5 out of 10 watch service ratio of very satisfied and speedy service. It's always a massive smile and surprise when it does happen though.

[devoti]

Talking about getting hands refinished at ABC Watchwerks. I gave my girlfriend an old Rolex. While I was away traveling for work she took the watch in for a cleaning to surprise me but it came back with (sadly) refurbed loud colored hands. Boy was I surprised, It looked nicer with the old orig. fading hands than the new ones but what are you going to do?

Pics of it are on my first post in another thread.

[devoti]

Originally Posted by devoti

Talking about getting hands refinished at ABC Watchwerks. I gave my girlfriend an old Rolex. While I was away traveling for work she took the watch in for a cleaning to surprise me but it came back with (sadly) refurbed loud colored hands. Boy was I surprised, It looked nicer with the old orig. fading hands than the new ones but what are you going to do?

Pics of it are on my first post in another thread.

Here are before-after pics uploaded. Not exactly my cup of tea or the type of quality expected even if its just for a lower quality 1938 Rolex example.

[eugenetsang]

Originally Posted by devoti

I strongly suggest for them to find/hire more/better people to handle the phones and customer support but that's just my opinion. If they're so busy with so many orders at those prices then theoretically they should be able to hire staff to better service clients and process orders but then I have no idea how the watch service industry works other than being on the other side as a frustrated client, sometimes happy client for many years.

You're totally right... I had emailed them with pictures of my watch and typed out a detail explantion as to what I wanted done... They still haven't responded... I am now hesistant in shipping them my watch since I am from the east coast....

[116710er]

I've only had good results with LAWW so far. Answers their phones, answered most of my emails (I have a feeling that they get a TON) and more importantly, the work they did was not only well done, but done on time.

[Senorx]

I contacted LAWW in June 2018 and sent in my vintage Seiko 6309-7049 in early July 2018 for a full service. I was told 6 weeks to complete the job and was provided an invoice for the work. I was in contact with Edvi the whole time and my emails were responded to in a timely manner. I was even provided pictures during the process. I received my watch in about 6 weeks as promised and all work was performed as promised. My watch is running flawlessly. I would not hesitate to use LAWW again.