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Old 24 December 2018, 12:51 AM   #1
Gliderguy
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Beat

I have cleaned,oiled my Gmt II . It keeps great time in all positions with an amplitude fall of 15 in PU or PD position. Amplitude is 270 dial down. The problem is the beat error. It is 5.8. I have loosened the screw and fiddled with the position of the "regulating horn"with no result in the reading. The two lines vary upon regulation but What puzzles me is that beat error is always there even if the reading is one perfect line. What could be wrong? Thanks for any help.
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Old 24 December 2018, 02:09 AM   #2
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Is your hairspring perfectly centered and flat?
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Old 24 December 2018, 02:32 AM   #3
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Will check. What would be the mechanics behind this beat error with a flat line?
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Old 24 December 2018, 04:37 AM   #4
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Will check. What would be the mechanics behind this beat error with a flat line?
Hairspring problems can cause odd readings on the timegrapher. If it is looking fine then I don't know what would be the cause.
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Old 24 December 2018, 05:23 AM   #5
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I think it could be the problem. I do recall touching the mainspring with my tweezers not so gracefully.
I will let you know. Thanks for your time.
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Old 24 December 2018, 05:48 AM   #6
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5.8 is a lot. Perhaps the 2nd line is beyond what the lcd screen can display.


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Old 24 December 2018, 06:38 AM   #7
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I think it could be the problem. I do recall touching the mainspring with my tweezers not so gracefully.
I will let you know. Thanks for your time.

The "hairspring" is a very touchy part of a watch. Doesn't take much to screw one up. Repairing one is very difficult. You won't find many to do it either.
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Old 24 December 2018, 06:45 AM   #8
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5.8 is a lot. Perhaps the 2nd line is beyond what the lcd screen can display.


All work done in the good ol’ U.S. of A.
Yeah that is indeed another possibility, depends on the timegrapher though.
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Old 24 December 2018, 07:43 AM   #9
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Would love to think this is a possibility but the two lines are present on the display and they separate or join upon regulation.
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Old 24 December 2018, 12:49 PM   #10
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You may also try moving the stud in another direction until the lines separate and converge again. Sometimes the number will zero out after at.
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Old 24 December 2018, 01:40 PM   #11
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You might have to disassemble it again and check where the impulse jewel is resting with the pallet fork removed. It should be centered between the banking pins along a line from the pallet fork pivot to the balance wheel pivot.
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Old 24 December 2018, 03:47 PM   #12
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Not to nitpick robmack, but if this is a GMT II, it likely has a 3185 movement in it. So it doesn't have banking pins, having instead unmovable, unadjustable banking surfaces that limit the side-to-side movement of the fork.

If you can't properly assess the centeredness of hairspring (understandable if you can't), then i would do what robmack is suggesting. Let all of the power off of the mainspring and take a hard look at the where the fork and roller jewel are situated. If the beat error is really 5.8, then the roller jewel (hey, that's what i call it!) will be way off to one side or another. When well adjusted, the roller jewel should be on a line of centers with the upper pallet bridge jewel and upper escape wheel jewel. And, by extension, the long shaft of the pallet fork will appear to be centered between the 2 banking surfaces.

To make these observations no disassembly is necessary, you just have to let the power out and peek in there. The 3185 has a movable stud, so there's no reason to not have a 0 beat error. But the hairspring still has to be centered. Many a lazy watchmaker will just move the stud all over the place to get that 0 beat error, even as their hairspring goes out of center in the process. The good watchmaker centers the hairspring first, and adjusts the stud position second.

sorry to blab. If your beat error really is 5.8, you've got to get that licked! good luck.
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Old 24 December 2018, 11:58 PM   #13
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That raises a good question. Which model of GMT II are we discussing here; 16760, 16710 or 116710? The movement could be a 3085, 3185 or 3186 depending on the model and year.
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Old 25 December 2018, 06:10 AM   #14
Gliderguy
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It is a 16710 from 98 with a 3185.
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Old 25 December 2018, 07:14 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.G.Bramlett, CW21 View Post
Not to nitpick robmack, but if this is a GMT II, it likely has a 3185 movement in it. So it doesn't have banking pins, having instead unmovable, unadjustable banking surfaces that limit the side-to-side movement of the fork.

If you can't properly assess the centeredness of hairspring (understandable if you can't), then i would do what robmack is suggesting. Let all of the power off of the mainspring and take a hard look at the where the fork and roller jewel are situated. If the beat error is really 5.8, then the roller jewel (hey, that's what i call it!) will be way off to one side or another. When well adjusted, the roller jewel should be on a line of centers with the upper pallet bridge jewel and upper escape wheel jewel. And, by extension, the long shaft of the pallet fork will appear to be centered between the 2 banking surfaces.

To make these observations no disassembly is necessary, you just have to let the power out and peek in there. The 3185 has a movable stud, so there's no reason to not have a 0 beat error. But the hairspring still has to be centered. Many a lazy watchmaker will just move the stud all over the place to get that 0 beat error, even as their hairspring goes out of center in the process. The good watchmaker centers the hairspring first, and adjusts the stud position second.

sorry to blab. If your beat error really is 5.8, you've got to get that licked! good luck.
Agreed, hairspring should be 100% centered and flat before even thinking about regulation. And depending on the movement this can either be quite easy or incredibly difficult.

I recently did some work on a Jaeger 846, that hairspring is about as soft and worthless as butter, and that is an understatement...
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Old 25 December 2018, 08:01 AM   #16
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Agreed, hairspring should be 100% centered and flat before even thinking about regulation. And depending on the movement this can either be quite easy or incredibly difficult.

I recently did some work on a Jaeger 846, that hairspring is about as soft and worthless as butter, and that is an understatement...
*shutters*

Do you work on many ladies movements? I had a Rolex 1400 awhile back. And of course all those tiny vintage manual winds. Those things are a pain when the hairspring is a mess!!!!
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Old 25 December 2018, 08:04 AM   #17
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*shutters*



Do you work on many ladies movements? I had a Rolex 1400 awhile back. And of course all those tiny vintage manual winds. Those things are a pain when the hairspring is a mess!!!!
Haven't worked on a 1400 yet, they rarely come in.

I do work a lot on 20××, 21×× and 22×× as far as ladies Rolex goes. But they are pretty sturdy compared to that Jaeger LeCoultre.
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Old 25 December 2018, 03:35 PM   #18
R.G.Bramlett, CW21
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the hairspring on a rolex 1400 will bend every which way if you look at it sideways. heaven help you if you actually touch it with a tweezer!
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Old 25 December 2018, 04:23 PM   #19
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the hairspring on a rolex 1400 will bend every which way if you look at it sideways. heaven help you if you actually touch it with a tweezer!
Well that is good to know beforehand
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Old 26 December 2018, 06:36 AM   #20
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the hairspring on a rolex 1400 will bend every which way if you look at it sideways. heaven help you if you actually touch it with a tweezer!
lol. Pretty accurate description for sure!!
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