What if the "original" James Bond Rolex turned out NOT to be a Submariner?

[delldeaton]

A lot has been written about the so-called "first" Rolex Submariner worn by Sean Connery as James Bond in Dr. No. Irrespective of the source, those discussions are often salted with some additional speculation that the Submariner further reflected the original choice of Ian Fleming for 007's personal watch selection in the books.

There are any number of approaches we could take in trying to see if Mr. Fleming had, indeed, weighed in on this vitally important discussion.

Access to the blue notebooks he kept in preparation for writing his books. Production notes from the original CBS television broadcast of Casino Royale (with which he was rather involved in consulting). References made in the manuscripts and author's copies of key books held at the Lilly Library. Some have said that Cousteau actually specified the watch at some point in his friendship with the 007 author.

Talk is now turning to "next time." Speculation has already begun regarding a "return to the original Rolex, because that's the only brand Ian Fleming mentioned by name."

So I thought it would be interesting to see how you all would feel if a real, concerted effort to ID Fleming's designation turned out not to be the Submariner.

[Letsgodiving]

I voted indifferent. I think it is a neat bit of trivia although I wouldn't be down about it if it were to be disproved.

[GradyPhilpott]

Why should I care what watch a fictional character wears?

At any rate, according to the citations I've read, Fleming only said that Bond wore a Rolex.

I read a very compelling argument the other day suggesting that the actual watch was an Explorer, but the evidence was very, very subjective.

Now, I do happen to have it on good authority that this is the original GI Joe watch.



Talk about a beauty.

I could be wrong, though. Like the Omega, it has an identifier, but we all know about the Omega, don't we?

[shedlock2000]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

Why should I care what watch a fictional character wears?

At any rate, according to the citations I've read, Fleming only said that Bond wore a Rolex.

I read a very compelling argument the other day suggesting that the actual watch was an Explorer, but the evidence was very, very subjective.

Now, I do happen to have it on good authority that this is the original GI Joe watch.



Talk about a beauty.

I could be wrong, though. Like the Omega, it has an identifier, but we all know about the Omega, don't we?

I dont.... but id love to find out....

Whats an identifier

what about the omega? I have been contemplating a move recently to a speedmaster gmt.

[MACRAME QUEENS]

Who cares? The fact that some guy I've never heard of wore it in a movie does nothing to influence me. The only person I care about going Submariner is me.

[chazha]

I am not a big Submariner fan anyway so I voted indifferent. Even if I was, why should I care about 007 who doesnt exist in the real world. :-D

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by shedlock2000

I dont.... but id love to find out....

Whats an identifier

what about the omega? I have been contemplating a move recently to a speedmaster gmt.

An identifier is anything that identifies a person or object or affiliations.

A person who served in the military might wear an emblem of his service. That would be an identifier.

I used to know an "American" who when traveling abroad would display a Canadian flag on her person to avoid any militant action based on her nationality. This is called a dis-identifier.

The GI Joe watch is marked with GI Joe identifiers. At least one Omega James Bond model bears the 007 on the second-hand, which is an identifier, because the character in a movie wore a similar model in a movie.

As to what we know about the James Bond watch is that the 007 on the watch doesn't change the fact that James Bond as created by Ian Fleming wore a Rolex.

I hope that's clear.

As far as I know, Omega makes a fine watch and I plan to purchase one myself within the next year.

[shedlock2000]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

An identifier is anything that identifies a person or object or affiliations.

A person who served in the military might wear an emblem of his service. That would be an identifier.

I used to know an "American" who when traveling abroad would display a Canadian flag on her person to avoid any militant action based on her nationality. This is called a dis-identifier.

The GI Joe watch is marked with GI Joe identifiers. At least one Omega James Bond model bears the 007 on the second-hand, which is an identifier, because the character in a movie wore a similar model in a movie.

As to what we know about the James Bond watch is that the 007 on the watch doesn't change the fact that James Bond as created by Ian Fleming wore a Rolex.

I hope that's clear.

As far as I know, Omega makes a fine watch and I plan to purchase one myself within the next year.

Ahh, i get yah, right. Clear. Thanks for your help there fella.

I must admit, im not really into the placement thing in films, especially when it conflicts with the real deal. Im not a big 007 oficianado, but i do think he should at least be dark haired, wear a sub, and drive an aston.

Not dooing is like having han solo on the enterprise! its not right.

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

Why should I care what watch a fictional character wears....

No reason you "should" - and, as a matter of fact, that's why I included options to put a number to those who don't. It's all interesting to me.

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

... At any rate, according to the citations I've read, Fleming only said that Bond wore a Rolex.

I read a very compelling argument the other day suggesting that the actual watch was an Explorer, but the evidence was very, very subjective....

There's no shortage of guess-work on the Internet, and the sort of one person copying another person who copies that person effect - along the lines of the Michael Keaton movie where he photocopied himself. And about as valuable.

This has nothing to do w/ anything I'm aware of anyone else arguing on the web, and whatever they may be basing that on. I'm talking about actual documentation, and/or primary research that could answer the question. (Loud voices and frequent re-posts are no substitute for this.)

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

... At least one Omega James Bond model bears the 007 on the second-hand, which is an identifier, because the character in a movie wore a similar model in a movie.

As to what we know about the James Bond watch is that the 007 on the watch doesn't change the fact that James Bond as created by Ian Fleming wore a Rolex.

I hope that's clear.

What you've written is clear to me. Along the same line, let me also be sure that my own original question is clear. I'm asking about Ian Fleming's designation of the James Bond watch, irrespective of what any actor wore - whether that be Pierce Brosnan, Sean Connery or any other "interpretation" of the wristwatch.

There isn't any doubt in my mind that we're talking about a Rolex model here. Not a "licensed product."

[Dalton]

I've always wondered if the whole going to the moon thing was a hoax? it would devastate me to think that Omega Speedy's are just part of the lie, but with 007, I wouldn't give a damn.

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by Dalton

I've always wondered if the whole going to the moon thing was a hoax? it would devastate me to think that Omega Speedy's are just part of the lie, but with 007, I wouldn't give a damn.

Capricorn One?

[C. Davidson]

Originally Posted by delldeaton

Talk is now turning to "next time." Speculation has already begun regarding a "return to the original Rolex, because that's the only brand Ian Fleming mentioned by name."

Is there any primary sources that support the (return to Rolex) speculation? What is the basis for your thoughts on this?

Im fascinated by the prospect of Rolex being in the next Bond movie.

Originally Posted by delldeaton

So I thought it would be interesting to see how you all would feel if a real, concerted effort to ID Fleming's designation turned out not to be the Submariner.

I answered indifferent. What does interest me is a Rolex in the next Bond movie. Explorer, Submariner, GMT??? Any Rolex would be cool.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by delldeaton

...let me also be sure that my own original question is clear. I'm asking about Ian Fleming's designation of the James Bond watch, irrespective of what any actor wore - whether that be Pierce Brosnan, Sean Connery or any other "interpretation" of the wristwatch.

There isn't any doubt in my mind that we're talking about a Rolex model here. Not a "licensed product."

I was clear on your question, it's just that, perhaps my whimsical, rambling, tangent didn't reiterate my original position.

Paraphrasing, Fleming, just any watch wasn't good enough for Bond, he had to wear a Rolex.

That's pretty vague.

The Sub connection doesn't come until Connery is shown on screen wearing one.

That watch was not a licensed product and, according the folklore it was chosen based on serendipity and perhaps some speculation.

So, Rolex Sub seems to be a Rolex that Bond might wear, but not necessarily the watch that he would wear.

Let us for get movies entirely and we are left with the single paragraph that describes what watch Bond wears, which states only that he wore a Rolex.

Unless some forgotten manuscripts are found to indicate an exact model, I think it will never ever be resolved.

It is best to just take it at face value that the Ian Fleming character wore a Rolex and leave it at that.

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by C. Davidson

Is there any primary sources that support the (return to Rolex) speculation? What is the basis for your thoughts on this?

Im fascinated by the prospect of Rolex being in the next Bond movie.... What does interest me is a Rolex in the next Bond movie. Explorer, Submariner, GMT??? Any Rolex would be cool.

Absolutely nothing other than pure speculation that I've seen at this point.

Mind you, there was talk about "a return to Rolex" after it was announced that Pierce Brosnan would not be coming back as James Bond and that the entire franchise was headed for a re-boot. Despite the fact that Brosnan was also departing as an Omega Ambassador, I knew that Omega had a multi-picture deal to stay w/ the 007 films. (There's a November 2005 article in The Hindu Business Line regarding an Omega investment in India and that cracked the nut: Just goes to show how there are all sorts of outlets for media information if one knows where to look!)

In other words: Certainty that Rolex would not be returning in Casino Royale.

So my reference in this Thread to the "talk" was merely a statement about interest in Rolex a'la James Bond. And perhaps the further implication that, if the hook for that is to follow Fleming specifications that research be done to actually do so, as opposed to simply putting one actor into a watch simply because a previous actor had worn it.

[JJ Irani]

When I go to the Bond films, I look at the Bond girls......not some silly watches!!!

[Andad]

Dell,

Does indifferent mean 'I couldn't care less'?

There was only one proper 'Bond' Rolex and I have it's young brother.

I wear this one every day and it is currently spot on to 'timeticker'. It was last set on the 8th of October and I don't need to adjust the date at the end of November.

[C. Davidson]

Originally Posted by delldeaton

Absolutely nothing other than pure speculation that I've seen at this point.

Mind you, there was talk about "a return to Rolex" after it was announced that Pierce Brosnan would not be coming back as James Bond and that the entire franchise was headed for a re-boot. Despite the fact that Brosnan was also departing as an Omega Ambassador, I knew that Omega had a multi-picture deal to stay w/ the 007 films. (There's a November 2005 article in The Hindu Business Line regarding an Omega investment in India and that cracked the nut: Just goes to show how there are all sorts of outlets for media information if one knows where to look!)

In other words: Certainty that Rolex would not be returning in Casino Royale.

So my reference in this Thread to the "talk" was merely a statement about interest in Rolex a'la James Bond. And perhaps the further implication that, if the hook for that is to follow Fleming specifications that research be done to actually do so, as opposed to simply putting one actor into a watch simply because a previous actor had worn it.

Thanks for your response. I was actually hoping that there was some "solid" evidence but oh well. One can only hope.

I think it would be a nice change to have a Rolex featured in the next film. Any Rolex, it doesn't matter to me. The key would be for Rolex to not advertise this fact one bit, just keep it suttle and have word of mouth spread the message. I think this "low-key" approach would have a much greater impact than shouting one's affiliations from the mountain top.

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

... Paraphrasing, Fleming, just any watch wasn't good enough for Bond, he had to wear a Rolex.

That's pretty vague.

The Sub connection doesn't come until Connery is shown on screen wearing one.

That watch was not a licensed product and, according the folklore it was chosen based on serendipity and perhaps some speculation.

So, Rolex Sub seems to be a Rolex that Bond might wear, but not necessarily the watch that he would wear.

Let us for get movies entirely and we are left with the single paragraph that describes what watch Bond wears, which states only that he wore a Rolex.

Unless some forgotten manuscripts are found to indicate an exact model, I think it will never ever be resolved.

It is best to just take it at face value that the Ian Fleming character wore a Rolex and leave it at that.

Rather than seeing this as you've stated it, that "just any watch wasn't good enough for Bond, he had to wear a Rolex," I'd rather say that Ian Fleming was particular about certain watches that 007 would wear, depending on what he intended to convey through the story at hand. For example, in You Only Live Twice, James Bond wears "a cheap Japanese" wristwatch; On Her Majesty's Secret Service references a pocket watch that he carries, and the context of that implies a history that doesn't exactly allow it to be a Rolex.

On the other hand, I agree w/ you on several points regarding the Submariner. First, at the time Sean Connery started filming Dr. No in Jamaica and was wearing a Rolex Sub for the part of James Bond, there existed a sum total of only one reference to Rolex in all of the stories that had been published thus far. This was in Live and Let Die, published in 1954. But, as I've mentioned elsewhere, the original manuscript for that book is held in the Lilly Library archives, Indiana University (Bloomington), where I was given access to it for review while there for the Ian Fleming Centenary on May 28. "Rolex" appears in that first draft, which would have been written in the first months of 1953. No Rolex had made news at that point by having ascended Mt. Everest; no Spring Basel announcement of the Submariner model.

Neither was there a reason for Fleming to have preferred a diver's watch for Bond based on Navy history. Personally, he worked in an office w/ World War II intelligence, not at sea. And Henry Chancellor, writing on behalf of the Ian Fleming Will Trust, has argued that "James Bond had very little to do with the navy at all: it was a convenient front. Bond was secret service from the start - with SOE, as an intelligence commando in 30AU, or with some other shady organization - and this is why he is awarded his 00 status, his licence to kill...."

So, no support for the Submariner argument here via Fleming.

Furthermore, just a few novels after Live and Let Die, the psycho-villain "Grant" shoots the watch James Bond is wearing in From Russia, with Love. So, no continuity as far as the books are concerned from the Live and Let Die watch to either the Doctor No or the On Her Majesty's Secret Service watch(es) that followed.

That leaves us to imagine that Ian Fleming saw or was told that Sean Connery was wearing a particular sort of Rolex, a Submariner, and suddenly ran back to his typewriter at Goldeneye and put the literary James Bond into the same thing as he wrote On Her Majesty's Secret Service. No way. He might have referenced Ursula Andress in the book because he took a personal liking to her; but I can't imagine him deferring to a movie production for ultimate say in Bond's watch model selection.

Further to this point, when asked by Playboy magazine for information on James Bond's appearance, December 1962, he clearly went against Connery-type in specifying eye color, and noted that 007 did not wear long-sleeve shirts with his suits.

The Rolex brand name is given over half-a-dozen times in On Her Majesty's Secret Service - the only other story in which it is referenced besides Live and Let Die. And I agree: No place in the published book is a model name referenced. A lot of speculation seems to have been stirred up on this subject after my Blog Posts first highlighted the Daniel Craig Rolex reference a couple of months ago, and noted a fascinating clothing style parallel between Ian Fleming and a Daniel Craig-as-007 photo specific to the Bond watch choice. But still just guesses after my original work.

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

When I go to the Bond films, I look at the Bond girls......not some silly watches!!!

Well, I can certainly say that was somewhat the case for me when watching Olga Kurylenko in Quantum of Solace.

Originally Posted by directioneng

Dell,

Does indifferent mean 'I couldn't care less'? ...

If you'd like, yes.

Originally Posted by C. Davidson

Thanks for your response. I was actually hoping that there was some "solid" evidence but oh well. One can only hope.

I think it would be a nice change to have a Rolex featured in the next film. Any Rolex, it doesn't matter to me. The key would be for Rolex to not advertise this fact one bit, just keep it suttle and have word of mouth spread the message. I think this "low-key" approach would have a much greater impact than shouting one's affiliations from the mountain top.

However it goes, it's just great fun for me to follow!

[C. Davidson]

Originally Posted by delldeaton

Rather than seeing this as you've stated it, that "just any watch wasn't good enough for Bond, he had to wear a Rolex," I'd rather say that Ian Fleming was particular about certain watches that 007 would wear, depending on what he intended to convey through the story at hand. For example, in You Only Live Twice, James Bond wears "a cheap Japanese" wristwatch; On Her Majesty's Secret Service references a pocket watch that he carries, and the context of that implies a history that doesn't exactly allow it to be a Rolex.

On the other hand, I agree w/ you on several points regarding the Submariner. First, at the time Sean Connery started filming Dr. No in Jamaica and was wearing a Rolex Sub for the part of James Bond, there existed a sum total of only one reference to Rolex in all of the stories that had been published thus far. This was in Live and Let Die, published in 1954. But, as I've mentioned elsewhere, the original manuscript for that book is held in the Lilly Library archives, Indiana University (Bloomington), where I was given access to it for review while there for the Ian Fleming Centenary on May 28. "Rolex" appears in that first draft, which would have been written in the first months of 1953. No Rolex had made news at that point by having ascended Mt. Everest; no Spring Basel announcement of the Submariner model.

Neither was there a reason for Fleming to have preferred a diver's watch for Bond based on Navy history. Personally, he worked in an office w/ World War II intelligence, not at sea. And Henry Chancellor, writing on behalf of the Ian Fleming Will Trust, has argued that "James Bond had very little to do with the navy at all: it was a convenient front. Bond was secret service from the start - with SOE, as an intelligence commando in 30AU, or with some other shady organization - and this is why he is awarded his 00 status, his licence to kill...."

So, no support for the Submariner argument here via Fleming.

Furthermore, just a few novels after Live and Let Die, the psycho-villain "Grant" shoots the watch James Bond is wearing in From Russia, with Love. So, no continuity as far as the books are concerned from the Live and Let Die watch to either the Doctor No or the On Her Majesty's Secret Service watch(es) that followed.

That leaves us to imagine that Ian Fleming saw or was told that Sean Connery was wearing a particular sort of Rolex, a Submariner, and suddenly ran back to his typewriter at Goldeneye and put the literary James Bond into the same thing as he wrote On Her Majesty's Secret Service. No way. He might have referenced Ursula Andress in the book because he took a personal liking to her; but I can't imagine him deferring to a movie production for ultimate say in Bond's watch model selection.

Further to this point, when asked by Playboy magazine for information on James Bond's appearance, December 1962, he clearly went against Connery-type in specifying eye color, and noted that 007 did not wear long-sleeve shirts with his suits.

The Rolex brand name is given over half-a-dozen times in On Her Majesty's Secret Service - the only other story in which it is referenced besides Live and Let Die. And I agree: No place in the published book is a model name referenced. A lot of speculation seems to have been stirred up on this subject after my Blog Posts first highlighted the Daniel Craig Rolex reference a couple of months ago, and noted a fascinating clothing style parallel between Ian Fleming and a Daniel Craig-as-007 photo specific to the Bond watch choice. But still just guesses after my original work.

Well, I can certainly say that was somewhat the case for me when watching Olga Kurylenko in Quantum of Solace.

If you'd like, yes.

However it goes, it's just great fun for me to follow!

Dell,

You are incredibly detailed in your posts and I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to all of us here at TRF. I always look forward to reading your posts. Everything you have stated makes sense, it should be interesting to see what happens in the next Bond film. Hopefully its less commercialized.

[mickeydainish]

Hiya Dell..... came across your site by chance this week... and read a bit about James and his association with Rolex.... you sure are keen on the subject!! I like the fact that 007 was described to wear a Rolex in the Flemming books.... it seems so right that this secret British agent wore a timepiece that was as tough as he was...... Keep us updated about what you find in your investigations..... :-)

[ArizonaHD]

I always associated James Bond with his Walther PPK (in .32acp not .380 as many people think), but even that was evolutionary since it replaced the .25 acp Beretta Tomcat. Sure Bond started with a no date submariner but I believe that the proper Bond watch should be a chronograph as it has push button precision timing. So the Seiko LCD’s were best suited for his black side ops, but they lacked a level of class. So the best choice for Bond, would actually be a Breitling or Omega X-33 (3290.50) And his choice of weapon is lousy, Walther is a horrifically made gun of poor design. Bond should be carrying a Sig Sauer, HK, ASAI, even a Glock, Steyr, Kel-Tec or Para Ordinance would be a better choice than a Walther.

But be honest James Bond is more about product placement than about functionality.

[toph]

moderately dissapointed. It would not be the same without the sub , but then again it would be interesting to see what it could have been and how that wold have changed peoples perception of the sub and teh other watch that may have been used.

P.S the Sub is perfect in my opinon

[SUPERDOC]

If Rolex still has a no product placement policy...then I think Bond will return to seiko before he returns to Rolex...

Could be great for seiko...I love Omega, but realize that it's not as accessible for the vast majority of the movie going population....however, if the bond watch was only a few hundred $...they might fly out of the cases...

Bottom line is that much like watches, James Bond belongs to the rest of the world...not a bunch of obsessive complulsives with chronic fixations on minutiae...

So...Bond could wear a casio, and most people would not bat an eye...

[Trurolexer]

007 = Submariner

If not...

[Jimbits76]

All I care about is that The Rodge wore one in Live and Let Die...greatest watch product placement ever!!!!!!!

All this new Omega stuff and Craig wears a Rolex etc is of no real consequence to me...The Rodge and the Academy's Best Supporting Eyebrow sported one with the best Bond girl IMHO...Jane Seymour's Solitaire!

J

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by C. Davidson

Dell,

You are incredibly detailed in your posts and I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to all of us here at TRF. I always look forward to reading your posts. Everything you have stated makes sense, it should be interesting to see what happens in the next Bond film. Hopefully its less commercialized....

Well, you have to know that my Posts here are driven most by the fact that I like hanging out w/ you all; there are so many great people here, and a "positive," social culture that is really unique. And I always appreciate the feedback - as well as everything I learn from others here on subjects that aren't my forte.

Originally Posted by mickeydainish

Hiya Dell..... came across your site by chance this week... and read a bit about James and his association with Rolex.... you sure are keen on the subject!! I like the fact that 007 was described to wear a Rolex in the Flemming books.... it seems so right that this secret British agent wore a timepiece that was as tough as he was...... Keep us updated about what you find in your investigations..... :-)

Yeah, it's sort of a key element to characterization that can say a lot. And you've hit the nail on the head with your reference to a "secret British agent wore a timepiece that was as tough as he was."

All: We also have a "James Bond watches" Social Group here: LINK

Originally Posted by ArizonaHD

I always associated James Bond with his Walther PPK.... Sure Bond started with a no date submariner but I believe that the proper Bond watch should be a chronograph as it has push button precision timing. So the Seiko LCD’s were best suited for his black side ops, but they lacked a level of class. So the best choice for Bond, would actually be a Breitling or Omega X-33 (3290.50) And his choice of weapon is lousy, Walther is a horrifically made gun of poor design....

But be honest James Bond is more about product placement than about functionality.

Will defer to you on the gun discussion here (which I appreciate, however), except to say that this is a pretty interesting tangent to our discussion because of how it featured in Quantum of Solace. Although not someone who's studied Walther by any means, I've heard comments along the lines of your Reply here many times. Yet Quantum of Solace appears to have taken a step back in time to have issued the piece to James Bond. Why? Well, I suppose it's reasonable to assume that it's because Ian Fleming made a big deal of replacing 007's trademark Beretta with one in the books.

Interesting in terms of what that decision "might" suggest for future watches.

Your chronograph recommendation takes things further afield in terms of my thinking. References such as the one made to a watch w/ complications in From Russia, with Love suggests to me that this is quite something the original James Bond would not have chosen. Also less durable to his lifestyle. Then again, we have to ask ourselves if the character wasn't intended to be "timeless," and thus expected to be "current" in his watch choices; of that I am very certain: Bond would be wearing a new watch today. "New" as evolution of that Rolex or "new" as new to his job, well, that depends on the novel. I can see Ian Fleming putting him in a quartz here or there.

Originally Posted by toph

moderately dissapointed. It would not be the same without the sub , but then again it would be interesting to see what it could have been and how that wold have changed peoples perception of the sub and teh other watch that may have been used.

P.S the Sub is perfect in my opinon

Originally Posted by Trurolexer

007 = Submariner

If not...

Who knows? Maybe this and subsequent discussions related to facts as they emerge will actually lead as a groundswell of support for the Submariner!

Originally Posted by SUPERDOC

... Bottom line is that much like watches, James Bond belongs to the rest of the world...not a bunch of obsessive complulsives with chronic fixations on minutiae....

That sorta goes to the heart of my Poll question, doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Jimbits76

All I care about is that The Rodge wore one in Live and Let Die...greatest watch product placement ever!!!!!!!

All this new Omega stuff and Craig wears a Rolex etc is of no real consequence to me...The Rodge and the Academy's Best Supporting Eyebrow sported one with the best Bond girl IMHO...Jane Seymour's Solitaire!

J

Much as I feel Roger Moore gets a bum rap and great outings such as The Man With The Golden Gun are grossly underrated, this Thread has gotta take a turn if we're going to get into Bond girls.

My A-List:

• Eunice Gayson (Sylvia Trench)
• Tatiana (Daniela Bianchi)
• Claudine Auger (Domino)
• Britt Ekland (Mary Goodnight)
• Carey Lowell (Pam Bouvier, but prefer the scenes where her hair is longer)

If a Thread somehow mysteriously appears here, I'll definitely weigh in!

Thanks to all who are weighing in on this Poll!

It's really helpful sometimes to put numbers to opinions, and, as always, it's great to be part of a Forum where we can disagree sometimes without being disagreeable. That's actually a surprisingly rare thing on the Internet. For any of you in the U.S. who I may miss being off for a bit, have a happy Thanksgiving.

[Tools]

I think that all the speculation about watches and other features of Bond have taken on gigantic proportions..

Also, anybody who has watched a movie, and also read the corresponding book, knows that the film is seldom faithful to the writings..

So:

The Bond movie character can be, and is, different from the Ian Fleming written character.. On film, Bond does indeed wear a Rolex Sub... it is undisputed..the exact model may be a point of discussion, but his use of the Sub is fact.... With film, it is what it is...

In the books, which I daresay very few Bond fans have ever cracked, the actual model is not specified. It's left to the reader to conjure up exactly the picture of Bond and his watch etc, that his imagination wants. That's the whole point of books.. to get the reader involved and for everybody to take away their own mental image.

The only thing that the books and the films have in common is framework... Specifics are going to be different, and it shouldn't matter one way or the other except as an interesting set of facts and variables.

[earl of huntingdon]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

When I go to the Bond films, I look at the Bond girls......not some silly watches!!!

x2 with the bond girls...but I still try to look at the watch, dont know why

[delldeaton]

Originally Posted by earl of huntingdon

x2 with the bond girls...but I still try to look at the watch, dont know why

• Book: On Her Majesty's Secret Service. James Bond, in bed with Ruby, and Ian Fleming writes, "He softly eased his right arm from under the sleeping girl, took a lazy glance at his left wrist. The big luminous numerals said midnight."
• Film: Thunderball. Close-up on the watch, following Sean Connery's hand as James Bond, reaching down as Fiona (Luciana Paluzzi) is taking a bath in front of him.

[wantonebad]

Dell, what do you know about Fleming the man? I remember seeing a special on WWII a few years back where a fellow member of the British naval intelligence service claimed that Fleming wasn't much of a patriot, he said he was more interested in women and wine then in fighting the Germans.

Now this could easily just be sour grapes or a personal vendetta this man was voicing but what do you know of Fleming the man. Was he a slacking bon vivant writer, a staunch supporter of the crown and fierce analyst, or something in the middle?