BLNR in England?

[technics_ap]

Originally Posted by ryan1011

Ha, anywhere near the coast is generally better as it's fresh. If your in London try to go to places that get their fish from Billingsgate market or google best ones in london

http://www.timeout.com/london/restau...ip-restaurants

http://www.seashellrestaurant.co.uk/ :D

[kaiserphoenix]

sorry to break it u bud but dun waste ur time. in the UK even a regular SS sub has waiting lists these days....(from ADs, plenty available from grey).


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[Nairn1980]

Yup UK is crazy now, no decent SS stock anywhere.
You can have as many EXP2s as you want, they're sat at ADs everywhere lol

[Michael N Q8]

Check these guys out?

http://www.xupes.com/Watches/Brands/...Master-II.html

Does anyone know the price and availability of the Seadweller ceramic in UK?

[Ruud Van Driver]

1. ADs are not allowed to sell above RRP in the UK; it's illegal, so I don't know where this 'you won't find one at an AD for RRP' nonsense is coming from. If they have one at an AD, it's RRP or below.

2. OP has said he wants to get a VAT refund. If he sticks with that, the grey dealers are out of the question. I almost (but thankfully didn't) pick up a D-Blue from Watchfinder early last year. They told me I wouldn't get my VAT back on leaving the UK so I didn't go for it. Thankfully my AD in Cardiff found me one a few months later and I scored a tidy VAT refund of just over £7,100 at Heathrow when I left.

3. OP, as has been suggested above, ring around a few ADs in Europe and consider hopping on a plane for a day-trip somewhere. Italy could be a good bet as I see a lot of high demand references in Singapore sourced from Italy.

Good luck in your search and your forthcoming wedding

[lukey77]

Originally Posted by Ruud Van Driver

1. ADs are not allowed to sell above RRP in the UK; it's illegal, so I don't know where this 'you won't find one at an AD for RRP' nonsense is coming from. If they have one at an AD, it's RRP or below.



2. OP has said he wants to get a VAT refund. If he sticks with that, the grey dealers are out of the question. I almost (but thankfully didn't) pick up a D-Blue from Watchfinder early last year. They told me I wouldn't get my VAT back on leaving the UK so I didn't go for it. Thankfully my AD in Cardiff found me one a few months later and I scored a tidy VAT refund of just over £7,100 at Heathrow when I left.



3. OP, as has been suggested above, ring around a few ADs in Europe and consider hopping on a plane for a day-trip somewhere. Italy could be a good bet as I see a lot of high demand references in Singapore sourced from Italy.



Good luck in your search and your forthcoming wedding

Point 1. It's not illegal! You honestly think Rolex has introduced this into English law? It is most likely in contravention of their licensing/dealership agreement, and Rolex could probably remove their AD status. But to say it's illegal is nonsense. That's a pretty heavy statement.


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[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by lukey77

Point 1. It's not illegal! You honestly think Rolex has introduced this into English law? It is most likely in contravention of their licensing/dealership agreement, and Rolex could probably remove their AD status. But to say it's illegal is nonsense. That's a pretty heavy statement.


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It's not a heavy statement or nonsense. It's fact. Calling someone out on something you very clearly know nothing about is a 'heavy statement'. Be sure of the ground you stand on before you say someone's talking nonsense.

Read what I wrote very carefully again. It's illegal for an AD to sell above RRP; grey dealers or private sellers can sell the watch at whatever price they like. ADs cannot.

And who said about Rolex introducing it into UK law? It's Trading Standards.

[lukey77]

Originally Posted by Ruud Van Driver

It's not a heavy statement or nonsense. It's fact. Calling someone out on something you very clearly know nothing about is a 'heavy statement'. Be sure of the ground you stand on before you say someone's talking nonsense.



Read what I wrote very carefully again. It's illegal for an AD to sell above RRP; grey dealers or private sellers can sell the watch at whatever price they like. ADs cannot.



And who said about Rolex introducing it into UK law? It's Trading Standards.

It is NOT illegal. It is in contravention of their agreement with Rolex from which Rolex can seek damages under their contract.
But selling at above RRP is NOT illegal. Fact. It's a RECOMMENDED retail price. Rolex recommends it.

You're completely incorrect.


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[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by lukey77

It is NOT illegal. It is in contravention of their agreement with Rolex from which Rolex can seek damages under their contract.
But selling at above RRP is NOT illegal. Fact. It's a RECOMMENDED retail price. Rolex recommends it.

You're completely incorrect.


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It is illegal to sell above an advertised price in the UK. The prices are advertised on the Rolex website (in the UK) so selling above that price by a Rolex AD would make it illegal.

[lukey77]

Ps for something to be "illegal" has to have been passed in English law.

It's illegal to sell above sticker price (as that counts as an offer) if you clearly display that price. However, I'm assuming the ADs in question conveniently forgot their stickers on these ones.

Also think about what you said. Rolex sets the RRP. So how could it be "illegal " for ADs but not for grey dealers? The English courts would not discriminate between whether you're an AD or not, because there's nothing in English law that treats ADs differently??

Before you call me out, pls research


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[lukey77]

Originally Posted by Ruud Van Driver

It is illegal to sell above an advertised price in the UK. The prices are advertised on the Rolex website (in the UK) so selling above that price by a Rolex AD would make it illegal.

In which case the grey dealers are acting illegally?
An AD will be treated as a separate legal entity to Rolex group. If the AD doesn't show its price, it hasn't broken any laws.
Regardless of what Rolex group shows... They will be treated as v different entities in a court of law.


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[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by lukey77

Ps for something to be "illegal" has to have been passed in English law.

It's illegal to sell above sticker price (as that counts as an offer) if you clearly display that price. However, I'm assuming the ADs in question conveniently forgot their stickers on these ones.

Also think about what you said. Rolex sets the RRP. So how could it be "illegal " for ADs but not for grey dealers? The English courts would not discriminate between whether you're an AD or not, because there's nothing in English law that treats ADs differently??

Before you call me out, pls research


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See my post above.

Grey dealers are effectively selling a second hand product because they've bought the piece in from somewhere else. It won't have been sourced directly from Rolex, that's how they can sell ceramic SS Daytonas at whatever price they feel like.

[lukey77]

Originally Posted by Ruud Van Driver

See my post above.



Grey dealers are effectively selling a second hand product because they've bought the piece in from somewhere else. It won't have been sourced directly from Rolex, that's how they can sell ceramic SS Daytonas at whatever price they feel like.

Off the point. In a court of law an AD will be treated as the same as a grey dealer.

The only difference where Rolex will have a claim
Is their licensing agreement. They will be in breach of this contract for which Rolex can seek damages. But that isn't "illegal". They haven't broken any English law.


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[ryan1011]

Originally Posted by Ruud Van Driver

It's not a heavy statement or nonsense. It's fact. Calling someone out on something you very clearly know nothing about is a 'heavy statement'. Be sure of the ground you stand on before you say someone's talking nonsense.

Read what I wrote very carefully again. It's illegal for an AD to sell above RRP; grey dealers or private sellers can sell the watch at whatever price they like. ADs cannot.

And who said about Rolex introducing it into UK law? It's Trading Standards.

Whilst I also thought this was the case I must agree with the 'it isn't illegal' as I asked Rolex HQ this question while asking why a BLNR in Northern Ireland was being sold for £1300 over RRP the reason was due to the weak pound vs the Euro however he said on the selling above RRP

"We set the RRP for retailers at what we would like them to sell it all, they dont have to but they..should" he hesitated at the end. So I highly doubt it's illegal just i've never seen a proper AD selling above put it that way. They may find their supply is cut short somewhat unofficially if Rolex found out.

[lukey77]

And Ruud... Sorry to get on my high horse about this. But accusing somebody of acting illegally is quite serious. It shouldn't be used lightly.


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[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by lukey77

Off the point. In a court of law an AD will be treated as the same as a grey dealer.

The only difference where Rolex will have a claim
Is their licensing agreement. They will be in breach of this contract for which Rolex can seek damages. But that isn't "illegal". They haven't broken any English law.


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You're way off point. Who mentioned Rolex having a claim? It's the consumer that is likely to raise the issue on this point.

How can a grey be treated the same as an AD when the grey is selling what is effectively a second hand product? ADs source directly from Rolex, greys get them (usually) from ADs or other greys. Do you really think Rolex would claim against someone selling an in demand, legitimate reference on, say, eBay? No. and why would that be? Because they are not selling a brand new product.

If you're going to start referencing English law, then you might want to do some research and get your own facts straight.

[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by ryan1011

Whilst I also thought this was the case I must agree with the 'it isn't illegal' as I asked Rolex HQ this question while asking why a BLNR in Northern Ireland was being sold for £1300 over RRP the reason was due to the weak pound vs the Euro however he said on the selling above RRP

"We set the RRP for retailers at what we would like them to sell it all, they dont have to but they..should" he hesitated at the end. So I highly doubt it's illegal just i've never seen a proper AD selling above put it that way. They may find their supply is cut short somewhat unofficially if Rolex found out.

The thing I find strange here is that Northern Ireland doesn't use the Euro. Or have I misunderstood you and the AD is buying the watch in from Rolex in Euros and has to convert his own Sterling (which would explain it)? But £1,300 mark up is stretching his luck. I know Sterling has tanked but that's a hike of over 20%.

As I said above, the prices are advertised on the Rolex website (when accessed in the UK or while using a VPN set to the UK) so if ADs are going above that price, then the way I interpret the law it can't be legal. It's certainly a grey area if nothing else. I think if Rolex found out, the AD could have a problem with future stock, as you say.

ADs in Singapore frequently sell desirable models above retail price but in most parts of east Asia, it's an accepted practice. The D-Blue retail is S$16,500 but you'd be lucky to pick one up at an AD for less than S$19,000. Daytona C, Sub LVc and BLNR are also above retail

[lukey77]

Originally Posted by Ruud Van Driver

You're way off point. Who mentioned Rolex having a claim? It's the consumer that is likely to raise the issue on this point.



How can a grey be treated the same as an AD when the grey is selling what is effectively a second hand product? ADs source directly from Rolex, greys get them (usually) from ADs or other greys. Do you really think Rolex would claim against someone selling an in demand, legitimate reference on, say, eBay? No. and why would that be? Because they are not selling a brand new product.



If you're going to start referencing English law, then you might want to do some research and get your own facts straight.

You don't stop do you?
You're original point was that selling above RRP was illegal. I think we've established you're wrong on this.

"Who mentioned Rolex having a claim".. Me. I was trying to educate you that the practise isn't illegal, merely a breach of contract. This isn't in and of itself illegal.

Presumably the "illegality " you were referring to originally was the Sale of Goods Act 1979? In which case this is in place to protect the consumer, whether dealing in second hand or new goods.

My point that the ADs and grey dealers will be treated exactly the same in a court of law stands and is correct in this case. An AD is not part of the same legal entity as Rolex group , hence their ability UNDER ENGLISH LAW to sell the goods at whatever price they want is the same... They won't be treated any different.
Quit while you're behind


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[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by lukey77

You don't stop do you?
You're original point was that selling above RRP was illegal. I think we've established you're wrong on this.

"Who mentioned Rolex having a claim".. Me. I was trying to educate you that the practise isn't illegal, merely a breach of contract. This isn't in and of itself illegal.

Presumably the "illegality " you were referring to originally was the Sale of Goods Act 1979? In which case this is in place to protect the consumer, whether dealing in second hand or new goods.

My point that the ADs and grey dealers will be treated exactly the same in a court of law stands and is correct in this case. An AD is not part of the same legal entity as Rolex group , hence their ability UNDER ENGLISH LAW to sell the goods at whatever price they want is the same... They won't be treated any different.
Quit while you're behind


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I don't stop? So what are you doing exactly? My last point was in response to Ryan, so why are you getting involved?

ADs will not be treated the same as greys for reasons I'm bored of repeating.

And educate me? I don't need educating from someone on a high horse who's quoting the law from wiki.

All you're achieving here is getting closer to having this thread locked. How about you set an example and quit yourself.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Michael N Q8

Check these guys out?

http://www.xupes.com/Watches/Brands/...Master-II.html

Does anyone know the price and availability of the Seadweller ceramic in UK?

Price is £6.8 or 9, I just glanced one in an ADs where no Subs and GMTs. So think they may be available.

[ryan1011]

Originally Posted by Ruud Van Driver

The thing I find strange here is that Northern Ireland doesn't use the Euro. Or have I misunderstood you and the AD is buying the watch in from Rolex in Euros and has to convert his own Sterling (which would explain it)? But £1,300 mark up is stretching his luck. I know Sterling has tanked but that's a hike of over 20%.

As I said above, the prices are advertised on the Rolex website (when accessed in the UK or while using a VPN set to the UK) so if ADs are going above that price, then the way I interpret the law it can't be legal. It's certainly a grey area if nothing else. I think if Rolex found out, the AD could have a problem with future stock, as you say.

ADs in Singapore frequently sell desirable models above retail price but in most parts of east Asia, it's an accepted practice. The D-Blue retail is S$16,500 but you'd be lucky to pick one up at an AD for less than S$19,000. Daytona C, Sub LVc and BLNR are also above retail

Nope, it was correct. If you do the converstion from Euro to Pound it came out at the 8k something euro figure they had. She had it on up Rolex.com which showed the price in Euro for her which headoffice confirmed was also correct. Less you wanna argue with Rolex.com ;)

[kaiserphoenix]

The retail price in EU is indeed 8100 Euros that is the price on Rolex.com


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[ryan1011]

Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix

The retail price in EU is indeed 8100 Euros that is the price on Rolex.com


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Hannibal Lector had a point though, why is NI using Euro when they are part of the UK!?

[Shaky]

I am not arguing here and I am not trying to make upset anyone either !!

I don't think it is actually illegal to sell any product above an rrp, as let's be clear it stands for Recommended Retail Price. The important bit is recommended.

If a an AD or anyone else for that matter put a SubC ND up in their window for £5k and then you walked in and said I will have that and get to the counter and they say that's £5500 please. Then they are breaking trading standard rules.

If the same dealer had the same watch in the window for £5500 and the price is one it. Then they can legally sell it for that price. I totally agree that then Rolex might get very upset about it but it wouldn't be illegal.

As another point brought up around posters stating that
"You won't get a BLNR from an AD at rrp" I actually said words the the same effect and I as probably many others probably mis-represented that comment.

Better wording would probably have been
"You won't get one from an AD"

Whether that be rrp, above or discounted..... Not in the time frame that the OP was talking about anyway.

**disclaimer....not wanting to upset or single anyone out.

[Nairn1980]

Ruud, RRP is RECOMMENDED Retail Price. Or as Rolex state on their Uk website "Rolex SUGGESTED Retail Price"

Should an official AD sell a BLNR and price it £6995 for example, trading standards cannot have an issue with this and is not against any U.K. Law as price fixing is not allowed.

However Rolex do not allow it and therefore an Official AD is not allowed to sell over RRP. Legally they can but it flouts Rolex rules and their AD status will soon vanish.

[Shaky]

Looks like we are of the same opinion the Nairn.

[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by Shaky

Looks like we are of the same opinion the Nairn.

Yup - all my time working in retail too, the public have such "knowledge" and love to quote law that doesn't exist.

Like an item displayed wrongly at £10 on the shelf scans at £20 and they insist the law states we must sell it for £10 etc. People quote parts of consumer law that just don't exist as they heard it somewhere lol

- no disrespect to Ruud at all in the above.

[masyv6]

trusted seller or chrono24!